What is the story with Honda?

johnthemull

My V40 (diesel) is starting to come to an end (170k, so no complaints). I do a lot of miles and have a young family so diesel estates are the order of the day. I have been doing a lot of homework lately and all my research seems to end up saying that a honda accord estate is my best bet.

I know they are as rare as hens teeth so the UK beckons. One thing I am wondering about is why Honda are keeping such a low profile. Their marketing here seems non existent. The Honda website is pathetic. The cars are overpriced.

You would think with the reputation they have for reliability that more of an effort would go in to selling their cars.

Its almost like they intend to withdraw completely from the market.

Can anyone shed any light on Honda before I part with my hard earned?

heate

johnthemull wrote: »

My V40 (diesel) is starting to come to an end (170k, so no complaints). I do a lot of miles and have a young family so diesel estates are the order of the day. I have been doing a lot of homework lately and all my research seems to end up saying that a honda accord estate is my best bet.

I know they are as rare as hens teeth so the UK beckons. One thing I am wondering about is why Honda are keeping such a low profile. Their marketing here seems non existent. The Honda website is pathetic. The cars are overpriced.

You would think with the reputation they have for reliability that more of an effort would go in to selling their cars.

Its almost like they intend to withdraw completely from the market.

Can anyone shed any light on Honda before I part with my hard earned?

It seems odd that they make such a lacklustre attempt at marketing given the economy and that a reliable car is more 'in'.

I always look to Lexus and their lack of modern diesel engines and the missed opportunity and profits as a result. They haven't got a 5er rival and they dont have a 7er rival because they have failed to go diesel which is a shame really.

Honda may have the same focus I.e. we don't care about Europe so we'll concentrate on the USA and new markets for our future and leave the Europeans to the Franco/German manufacturers

Tea 1000

johnthemull wrote: »

My V40 (diesel) is starting to come to an end (170k, so no complaints). I do a lot of miles and have a young family so diesel estates are the order of the day. I have been doing a lot of homework lately and all my research seems to end up saying that a honda accord estate is my best bet.

I know they are as rare as hens teeth so the UK beckons. One thing I am wondering about is why Honda are keeping such a low profile. Their marketing here seems non existent. The Honda website is pathetic. The cars are overpriced.

You would think with the reputation they have for reliability that more of an effort would go in to selling their cars.

Its almost like they intend to withdraw completely from the market.

Can anyone shed any light on Honda before I part with my hard earned?

Don't worry, it's not a conspiracy! They're fine and are here for good. But they do have poor marketing teams in this country alright. The new Civic however isn't expensive compared to the direct competition. 24k for the new 2.2 diesel with 150bhp is not bad, I'd say a similarly spec'd Golf is more.
But there are a few brands that I don't understand why they're so undersold. Look at Seat as another brand. I know plenty of Honda dealers, I can't even think of one Seat one off the top of my head.
Subaru are poor at marketing in this country too. Back in 2008 they had the entry level Impreza diesel, with 4WD and 150bhp engine for €21k. A 140bhp 2WD Golf at the time was around €27k. They didn't bother marketing it. Instead they dropped the entry level model and replaced with the R model or some crap which came with a handful of extra's and started charging €28k for it. Well done Subaru.

TomMc

Marketing costs big money, even in a depressed market. We also have a tiny population, compared to the UK. There isn't that much of a price difference between a brand new Accord and some A4's or 3-series so that segment is getting more and more competitive. At the end of the day a Honda is a much better buy on the used market after say two or three years, even if it means having to go to the UK to source one. Although the Euro is weak enough against Sterling atm.

Tea 1000

TomMc wrote: »

Marketing costs big money, even in a depressed market. We also have a tiny population, compared to the UK. There isn't that much of a price difference between a brand new Accord and some A4's or 3-series so that segment is getting more and more competitive. At the end of the day a Honda is a much better buy on the used market after say two or three years, even if it means having to go to the UK to source one. Although the Euro is weak enough against Sterling atm.

The new Accord is holding its value very well, mainly because it sold in such poor numbers new, yet people know they're good, so when the few second hand ones come on the market they're snapped up. In the UK they're also pricey used. More pricey for low mileage ones than 520d's in many cases.

TomMc

The last Accord was always overvalued (not as a car) but in pricing terms here compared to the UK. The new model may not be as plentiful on the used market, but it's residuals will not hold up in the longer term.

They are not exactly like hens teeth! Although the estate version would be to some extent over here.

http://www.carmony.co.uk/search?make=30&modelrange=486&fueltype=2&age=4&minprice=0&maxprice=0&st=postcode&sv=empty&rp=24&order=price-asc

UK

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&maxrows=100&MakeID=10&xMakeID=10&ModelID=89&xModelID=89&Year=&xYear=&submit=Find+cars+%3E%3E&make=Honda&model=Accord

Ireland

dahamsta

I've seen a few new Accords around and quite like the look of them, but wouldn't parts pricing be an issue for them given the limited distribution of cars in Ireland?

dahamsta

dahamsta wrote: »

............. wouldn't parts pricing be an issue for them given the limited distribution of cars in Ireland?

Honda parts aren't cheap but service parts wouldn't be any worse than most others.

Marki

Hi, what year is your V40 just as a matter of interest? 170,000km on a diesel Volvo is not a lot(imo) and is no-where near the end, especially if serviced at the recommended intervals. If you get bad feedback on your research of Honda cars in Ireland, why would you buy one? Why would you go over the water, you would still have to pay VRT? Just sayin like.....

170k could be 170k miles

Who got bad feedback on Honda?
Who mentioned going across the water ?

rick_fantastic

I picked up a 2009 (late registered) accord at the weekend... its the 2008 model (old body) and its 2.0ltr petrol with 10000km on clock for €14500

Love the car, they are really nice inside and very comfortable..

Guy I live with has a 2008 accord cdti with nearly 150000miles on it and it has never skipped a beat.

not sure about the DTECH engine but the 2.2 iCDTi is a great engine

jayok

Well, I was thinking the same and that's what I bought a 2.4 Accord Tourer.

Underestimated car, very reliable. I love it.

Parts are not really a problem as you can get most of them on ebay. For special items, I use the dealer.

Marki

RoverJames wrote: »

170k could be 170k miles

Who got bad feedback on Honda?
Who mentioned going across the water ?

Seriously, read the OP again and if you can't be of any help then don't be a hindrance.

Tea 1000

TomMc wrote: »

The last Accord was always overvalued (not as a car) but in pricing terms here compared to the UK. The new model may not be as plentiful on the used market, but it's residuals will not hold up in the longer term.

They are not exactly like hens teeth! Although the estate version would be to some extent over here.

http://www.carmony.co.uk/search?make=30&modelrange=486&fueltype=2&age=4&minprice=0&maxprice=0&st=postcode&sv=empty&rp=24&order=price-asc

UK

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search&maxrows=100&MakeID=10&xMakeID=10&ModelID=89&xModelID=89&Year=&xYear=&submit=Find+cars+%3E%3E&make=Honda&model=Accord

Ireland

The link you provided there shows 271 results for 2008 and newer Accords, but a good few of those are the old model. I did the same search for a 5-series, and over 500 results. So it's more rare than the BMW anyway!
It'll hold it's value as well or as poorly as the best in its class really.

Tea 1000

Marki wrote: »

Seriously, read the OP again and if you can't be of any help then don't be a hindrance.

No need for that tone. He got no bad report on Honda, it's all good. Take this quote directly from the OP:
"all my research seems to end up saying that a honda accord estate is my best bet"
That sounds very positive to me!
And "stick to what you know" is a bit of an insular attitude. What you know is often far from the best. The Accord is a better car than the V40.

TomMc

The UK link are all new model Accords and the prices show that they are by no means class leading where residuals are concerned.

Carzone has at least fifty to sixty new model Accords for sale in Ireland right now, so how does that tally with your theory that they are hard to find, because they are all snapped up on the used market very quickly.

The tourers maybe hard to find but that is more down to the Irish publics peculiar dislike for estates or unwillingness to pay the extra few grand for one over the saloon equivalent. Complete opposite on the continent.

The Accord may not be available in the same numbers a 5-series is, but that is because they are not as popular from new anymore. And the reason they are not as popular as in the past is because the gap between the new price of an Accord and certain premium German marques has narrowed considerably in recent years. The compact executive/executive car market will always be image led and so this trend will continue.

I could call say the current model Subaru Legacy rare, but in reality they are unpopular and a very hard sell from new. No refection on the car other than the fact they are not competitively priced v the competition. They only represented a small niche in the market in the past, but now they are a niche within a niche.

Going back years, petrol Accords sold very well, but now hardly at all if they are even imported in the first place. And traditional buyers haven't switched fuels from a petrol one to diesel, but to many other manufacturers. But then again many Jap marques cannot compete with European ones, where petrol engined cars are concerned.

Tea 1000

TomMc wrote: »

The UK link are all new model Accords and the prices show that they are by no means class leading where residuals are concerned.

Carzone has at least fifty to sixty new model Accords for sale in Ireland right now, so how does that tally with your theory that they are hard to find, because they are all snapped up on the used market very quickly.

The tourers maybe hard to find but that is more down to the Irish publics peculiar dislike for estates or unwillingness to pay the extra few grand for one over the saloon equivalent. Complete opposite on the continent.

The Accord may not be available in the same numbers a 5-series is, but that is because they are not as popular from new anymore. And the reason they are not as popular as in the past is because the gap between the new price of an Accord and certain premium German marques has narrowed considerably in recent years. The compact executive/executive car market will always be image led and so this trend will continue.

I could call say the current model Subaru Legacy rare, but in reality they are unpopular and a very hard sell from new. No refection on the car other than the fact they are not competitively priced v the competition. They only represented a small niche in the market in the past, but now they are a niche within a niche.

I think a 30k price tag is very competitive for the Legacy diesel when it was new in 2008. But people still didn't buy too many of them.
Look, you can throw figures all you like, all I know for a fact is that mates of mine were looking for decent, clean, low mileage Accords for reasonable money only 2 months ago. Looking at 08 and 09 models. Any that came up were either dear, abused or gone the same day as the ad went up. Another mate is searching the UK for one and finding 520d's a lot easier to find in the right condition and price, and cheaper than low mileage Accords too.
They're not NSX rare, but they're far from Passat/Avensis/Mondeo common.

Tea 1000

TomMc wrote: »

Going back years, petrol Accords sold very well, but now hardly at all if they are even imported in the first place. And traditional buyers haven't switched fuels from a petrol one to diesel, but to many other manufacturers. But then again many Jap marques cannot compete with European ones, where petrol engined cars are concerned.

Jap petrols were better by far than Euro petrols up to very, very recently. Fiat and VW have the high powered 1.4 units, the VW one in 170 guise proved to be unreliable, the Fiat seems good, although Fiat often had good engines.
Euro petrol engine history is far from fantastic, with the large German engines only note-worthy. VW had a 115bhp 2 litre petrol shítbox in the B5.5 Passat! The 1.6 pre-historic unit was still sold in the A3 up to a few years ago. Most 1.4's in Euroland were around 75bhp and noisy units. Japan were consistently offering 90bhp 1.4's that were perfectly reliable back 20 years ago almost.

TomMc

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I think a 30k price tag is very competitive for the Legacy diesel when it was new in 2008. But people still didn't buy too many of them.
Look, you can throw figures all you like, all I know for a fact is that mates of mine were looking for decent, clean, low mileage Accords for reasonable money only 2 months ago. Looking at 08 and 09 models. Any that came up were either dear, abused or gone the same day as the ad went up. Another mate is searching the UK for one and finding 520d's a lot easier to find in the right condition and price, and cheaper than low mileage Accords too.
They're not NSX rare, but they're far from Passat/Avensis/Mondeo common.

When Subaru brought out their boxer diesel engine option first in the Legacy it was under 30k. The new model is now 36k for the saloon and 37-42k for the estate. It made a 7k jump between old and new models with the exact same engine. That killed it's (new) market when you see what alternative options exist for similar money. And the 30k Legacy improved sales somewhat, but was always going to remain rare due to limited numbers available to the Irish distributors.

Maybe you just need to look harder to source an Accord. Although I would say most used examples currently are ex repmobiles so will tend to have high enough mileage. Private buyers (low mileage cars) will tend to keep them for longer so give it some time and they will appear more and more on the used market.

TomMc

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Jap petrols were better by far than Euro petrols up to very, very recently. Fiat and VW have the high powered 1.4 units, the VW one in 170 guise proved to be unreliable, the Fiat seems good, although Fiat often had good engines.
Euro petrol engine history is far from fantastic, with the large German engines only note-worthy. VW had a 115bhp 2 litre petrol shítbox in the B5.5 Passat! The 1.6 pre-historic unit was still sold in the A3 up to a few years ago. Most 1.4's in Euroland were around 75bhp and noisy units. Japan were consistently offering 90bhp 1.4's that were perfectly reliable back 20 years ago almost.

Yes, years ago Jap engined petrol cars had more BHP, but today many European cars have much better CO2 figures without been grossly underpowered and that is the real game changer, where RRP's and sales are concerned.

Marki

Tea 1000 wrote: »

No need for that tone. He got no bad report on Honda, it's all good. Take this quote directly from the OP:
"all my research seems to end up saying that a honda accord estate is my best bet"
That sounds very positive to me!
And "stick to what you know" is a bit of an insular attitude. What you know is often far from the best. The Accord is a better car than the V40.

I never said anything was bad about the honda accord in fact i am sure they are a great car but i've never owned one. What i am referring to is Quote; ' One thing I am wondering about is why Honda are keeping such a low profile. Their marketing here seems non existent. The Honda website is pathetic. The cars are overpriced.' that seems to be the negative experience he's got from his research into honda dealers/distributors in Ireland(his own opinion/experience). Why some people(roverjames)bring down a thread with lack-luster comments before reading them properly.....jeeez. Good luck with the new car johnthemull.

Tea 1000

TomMc wrote: »

When Subaru brought out their boxer diesel engine option first in the Legacy it was under 30k. The new model is now 36k for the saloon and 37-42k for the estate. It made a 7k jump between old and new models with the exact same engine. That killed it's (new) market when you see what alternative options exist for similar money. And the 30k Legacy improved sales somewhat, but was always going to remain rare due to limited numbers available to the Irish distributors.

Maybe you just need to look harder to source an Accord. Although I would say most used examples currently are ex repmobiles so will tend to have high enough mileage. Private buyers (low mileage cars) will tend to keep them for longer so give it some time and they will appear more and more on the used market.

Yep, I've no idea what Subaru were thinking. It was hard to recommend anything else at €29k 3 years ago, now it's hard to recommend it at all at 37k. The Accord has dropped a bit alright, but it's still about 4k too dear. They need to be better and cheaper than the competition to hammer them properly.
Back in 1989 VW brought out a new Passat that they wanted to be seen as upmarket. It went from 14k IR£ to 19k IR£, thus instantly shedding all it's customer base. Hardly anyone bought it, and by 1997 it was over-priced and just not great. Then they hit back hard with the all new Passat, priced at £18k. This offered what was essentially an A4, with all the quality, and a fantastic at the time blue-backlit dash and more space for £6k less than the A4, and it was even cheaper than the old outgoing model. The rest is history, they sold like hot-cakes. If Honda did that with the Accord, people wouldn't be able to see a reason to buy anything else.

Tea 1000

TomMc wrote: »

Yes, years ago Jap engined petrol cars had more BHP, but today many European cars have much better CO2 figures without been grossly underpowered and that is the real game changer, where RRP's and sales are concerned.

Ya, I find it fascinating how previously crap engines from German cars are suddenly fantastic when bench-marked by a German test system for all of Europe, and Jap cars are struggling!

Tea 1000

Marki wrote: »

I never said anything was bad about the honda accord in fact i am sure they are a great car but i've never owned one. What i am referring to is Quote; ' One thing I am wondering about is why Honda are keeping such a low profile. Their marketing here seems non existent. The Honda website is pathetic. The cars are overpriced.' that seems to be the negative experience he's got from his research into honda dealers/distributors in Ireland(his own opinion/experience). Why some people(roverjames)bring down a thread with lack-luster comments before reading them properly.....jeeez. Good luck with the new car johnthemull.

Not buying an excellent car because the company's website is crap and their marketing seems to be low profile is quite daft though.
Many car websites are terrible.

TomMc

The European manufacturers have adapted better and quicker where emissions are concerned.

The Yen as a currency must make things more difficult for distributors where pricing of some Jap vehicles are concerned in the medium to longer term.