When is a road race not a road race

spriteof1798

In which of the following cases should an athletics club apply for a permit from the AAI to run a road race on a public road.

1. A race with club members only
2. A race with members and where other clubs are allowed (free entry)
3. A race with members from other clubs where you are charging a nominal fee to enter.

What is the story with insurance as regards all the case above. What is considered a nominal fee, 3, 5, 10 Euro.

Timmaay

http://www.corkathletics.org/AAI_Permit_application.pdf

There are afew different types of permits! I'm not aware of any restrictions on the entry fee at all, however as it states in that application form, if the race is for a charity/commercial, the permit costs are higher. In terms of competitors, there is certainly no restriction that I know of on members of other AAI affiliated clubs taking part in your race, I'm unsure about non affiliated athletes though.

Gringo78

spriteof1798 wrote: »

1. A race with club members only.

This case would IMO be classified as a club training session and would not require a permit and would be covered by AAI insurance so long as it was an appropriate designated club route (i.e agreed by the club committee to be used as a race route)

The 2 other cases where non club members are to run would likely require a permit unless 2 or 3 clubs are coming together to have a joint club members only race. Whether money is charged or not is irrelevant as long as all proceeds go to club.

meathcountysec

spriteof1798 wrote: »

In which of the following cases should an athletics club apply for a permit from the AAI to run a road race on a public road.

1. A race with club members only
2. A race with members and where other clubs are allowed (free entry)
3. A race with members from other clubs where you are charging a nominal fee to enter.

What is the story with insurance as regards all the case above. What is considered a nominal fee, 3, 5, 10 Euro.

As long as all taking part are registered with AAI they would be covered by the overall cover provided by AAI membership.

spriteof1798

meathcountysec wrote: »

As long as all taking part are registered with AAI they would be covered by the overall cover provided by AAI membership.

OK, that makes sense. From an insurance point of view if I organize an event (as an AAI club) and charge people to enter and as long as everyone is an AAI member then everthing is above board (no need for a permit). If I have non-aai people taking part then I should get seperate insurance.

I know county boards like for races to have permit's and frown upon races that do not bother to get a permit. Also I know AAI Club do organize events with 100/200 entrants and charge (a small amount) to enter and don't get a permit because it's a club event. Just wondering where the line is drawn when determining if a race need a permit or not.

I could in theory as a club hold a race with more than 1000 people and not bother with a permit as long as I restrict the race to AAI members.

meathcountysec

spriteof1798 wrote: »

OK, that makes sense. From an insurance point of view if I organize an event (as an AAI club) and charge people to enter and as long as everyone is an AAI member then everthing is above board (no need for a permit). If I have non-aai people taking part then I should get seperate insurance.

I know county boards like for races to have permit's and frown upon races that do not bother to get a permit. Also I know AAI Club do organize events with 100/200 entrants and charge (a small amount) to enter and don't get a permit because it's a club event. Just wondering where the line is drawn when determining if a race need a permit or not.

I could in theory as a club hold a race with more than 1000 people and not bother with a permit as long as I restrict the race to AAI members.

If you have non-AAI people taking part you need a permit.

If you are an AAI club you should really get a permit. It's bad enough everybody else ignoring the permitting system without AAI clubs doing the same.

Good luck getting more than 1,000 AAI athletes together for a race

TheRoadRunner

meathcountysec wrote: »

If you have non-AAI people taking part you need a permit.

True but not really enforced. Dublin and Cork BHAA come to mind. Also is possible to organise one off insurance for a race but it's bloody expensive

spriteof1798

meathcountysec wrote: »

Good luck getting more than 1,000 AAI athletes together for a race

I did say in theory.

The permit system is very bad. People ask me should they get a permit and why. I can't think of a reason to do it. It the permit was a quality mark for the race then it could be worth it. It doesn't mean a race has been accurately measured or anything like that. I notice recently some clubs are not getting a permit because 'the race is only a club race' even though they have participants from other clubs and they are charging a fee + the odd non-AAI entrant.

meathcountysec

spriteof1798 wrote: »

I did say in theory.

The permit system is very bad. People ask me should they get a permit and why. I can't think of a reason to do it. It the permit was a quality mark for the race then it could be worth it. It doesn't mean a race has been accurately measured or anything like that. I notice recently some clubs are not getting a permit because 'the race is only a club race' even though they have participants from other clubs and they are charging a fee + the odd non-AAI entrant.

Permit = insurance cover, simples

In this litigious society would you want to risk your home/business by being sued by some unfortunate if you didn't have adequate cover (if any) in place?

I was at a primary schools cross country event today. We had to get a permit for it.

meathcountysec

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

True but not really enforced. Dublin and Cork BHAA come to mind. Also is possible to organise one off insurance for a race but it's bloody expensive

Dubin and Cork BHAA are not part of AAI. I presume (hope) they have adequate cover in place.

Many other bodies are arranging road races as fundraisers. No permits applied for. Some clashing with other events (permitted and unpermitted).

It'll only take one serious incident for this can of worms to be tipped over.

spriteof1798

meathcountysec wrote: »

It'll only take one serious incident for this can of worms to be tipped over.

I totally agree. It is very confusing though the whole system. There needs to be a document published on the need/reason for permit's and County boards and clubs need to be educated on it. It is starting to get worse not better.

TheRoadRunner

meathcountysec wrote: »

Dubin and Cork BHAA are not part of AAI. I presume (hope) they have adequate cover in place.

Many other bodies are arranging road races as fundraisers. No permits applied for. Some clashing with other events (permitted and unpermitted).

It'll only take one serious incident for this can of worms to be tipped over.

Yes you are right BHAA have insurance, sorry I misread something earlier. The whole AAI permit system is a pile of $hit in my experience. It's a great idea in practice but an AAI permit does not guarantee a well organised race. Our NI counterparts have a much better permit system that ensures standards are met before a permit is granted. It is also much cheaper.

Anyway if I were organising a race the first thing I'd ensure is that I had insurance. You can arrange this though an insurance broker, will cost ~400-500 euro for a road race. Assuming you are not organising a race through your club an AAI permit while handy to have (for advertising purposes) isn't worth the paper it's written on (IMO obviously)

BeepBeep67

AAI are missing a trick here and could learn a thing or two from cycling and tri - they could really develop their permit system to include commercial events while at the same time making them AAI only; €5 for an AAI day license for example.

umpire bat

The AAI permit system should incorporate an incentive system for affiliated athlete as per the British model. I believe AAI are formulating policy to regulate as set standards for permit events. Cycling and tri have their situations well sussed and faid dues to them. ( The "danger" element of cycling and open water swimming make it easier to enforce from the word go).
Our club took part in a road race in France a few years ago as part of a town twinning exchange. You are required to provide a doctors cert of "road worthiness" if you are not part of the French or other national athletics federation before you can take part.