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Laptop Hybrid SSD/HDD or (Pure) SSD?

  • 16-03-2012 12:16am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,541 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    Several name brand laptops are now offering either hybrid SSD/HDD or pure SSD storage. The pure SSDs are several times faster than HDD, and now have either 128 GB or 256 GB, which may cause some to hesitate buying until the 256 GB SSD doubles again in Moore's Law fashion to get the storage they need.

    Today the hybrid storage laptop prices are dropping quickly, opening the opportunity for great savings, but are there problems with hybrids? Although hybrids are claimed to run faster than HDD storage-only laptops, is not the hybrid disk controller architecture primarily designed for spinning disks? If so, is there a point at which the SSD will saturate the controller in the hybrid? Does it matter? Outcomes?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 893 ✭✭✭U_Fig


    you could do what i did i removed my optical drive (don't use it that much)...bought a caddy (€15) then put the 500GB hdd in instead then bought a 120GB SSD to install my OS and progrmas. I get the speed booting up and running things but the space to store all my music and stuff also. I also bought an external enclosure for the optical drive (€5) so if i need to use it it's connects via USB.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You bought what? Didn't think they made a hard drive caddy for a laptop optical bay

    Personally I'm a big fan of the pure ssd. The hybrids are marginally OK for speeding up boot times but in actual PC operation its going to be an everyday hdd. They don't do much for your storage but really do they need to? The biggest program footprint I have comes from video games. If this is a work machine, or you have some other PC you would consider your 'main like a desktop, then don't hesitate on SSD. If its a plaything for movies and lots of music, or if you do need lots of work storage, or its going to be your only PC for a while, then sure I would reconsider. Or you could just use an external USB hard drive and get the best of both.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 893 ✭✭✭U_Fig


    Overheal wrote: »
    You bought what? Didn't think they made a hard drive caddy for a laptop optical bay.


    Ya they do alright this is the one I got well like the one I got


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Big fan of those, no reason to use those cd drives for years, was thinking about it but would rather wait for a new laptop. I'd say get a mix until ssds are cheaper/bigger. 256GB might be manageable on it's own.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    It all depends on personal needs.

    Not all of us have to carry around their holiday photos from the last ten years or massive movie collections. ;)

    If mobility is an issue, then you might think twice before fitting two storage disks into your laptop. SSDs are pretty much on par with HDDs re power consumption.

    I'm using a 120 GB SSD and still have plenty space to play with.

    I still have the auld 701 with its massive 4 GB SSD but since I have a couple of SD cards space has never been issue there for me either. You can put a lot of music and the odd movie onto a 32 GB SD card. ;)

    If you're into image/video editing you'd certainly want a platter hard drive unless you don't care to wreck your precious SSD rather sooner than later.

    As usual, in computing there is no one fits all solution to such questions. ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭delux


    I'm going to buy a laptop and am considering one with a SSD. I'll see if i can try it out in the shop first, but i'm wondering in terms of everyday "normal" usage of internet and MS office, would you notice much difference between the SSD and HDD? If i buy a laptop w/ SSD i'd be hoping it would be noticeably faster (and maybe quieter) than one with a HDD.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    delux wrote: »
    If i buy a laptop w/ SSD i'd be hoping it would be noticeably faster (and maybe quieter) than one with a HDD.

    Programs will be starting faster, files fill open faster, etc.

    It will feel snappier alright but the SSD doesn't really contribute to program performance, which does rely more or less on processing power.

    They also require a good bit of tweaking and protection as they're very different to platter hard drives. There's a lot more to it than just "trim" support.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭damul


    What's the cheapest I could get a 256GB or 128 GB SSD drive for?

    Also which brands are the best?

    I am thinking I would probably want 256GB


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,692 ✭✭✭Jarren


    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B004W2JL2A

    If something goes wrong with the SSD you will get your money back refunded straight away. I have had a few faulty units in the past however never had issues getting my money back when the things went wrong with those items.

    I still think that 256 SSD units are too expensive though, you should be able to get
    an 128 SSD for just over 100 quid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    damul wrote: »
    Also which brands are the best?

    The best SSD at the moment is the Samsung SSD 830 (MZ-7PC256) for €275 or the Samsung SSD 830 (MZ-7PC128) for €175.

    The Kingston SSDNow KC100 SKC100S3B/240G for€292, and the OCZ Vertex 3 (VTX3-25SAT3-240G) for €273, offer a pretty similar performance.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭damul


    Jarren wrote: »
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B004W2JL2A

    If something goes wrong with the SSD you will get your money back refunded straight away. I have had a few faulty units in the past however never had issues getting my money back when the things went wrong with those items.

    I still think that 256 SSD units are too expensive though, you should be able to get
    an 128 SSD for just over 100 quid.

    Thanks. I would need about 20GB for OS (Windows 7 64bit). I would like my music on my laptop permanently which at present is about 55GB

    If I got 128GB SSD drive I would have about 53GB left which actually would be loads for photos and etc.

    I have videos like tv shows and films etc that I download but they would only be on laptop temporarily before I transfer them to external hard drive

    Are Corsair the best brand around? Is their much difference between any of their models or any other ssd's?

    I wont be using the laptop for any major editing of videos images etc. I will mainly use it for Internet, listening to music, M/S Office and watching videos etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭damul


    Torqay wrote: »
    The best SSD at the moment is the Samsung SSD 830 (MZ-7PC256) for €275 or the Samsung SSD 830 (MZ-7PC128) for €175.

    The Kingston SSDNow KC100 SKC100S3B/240G for€292, and the OCZ Vertex 3 (VTX3-25SAT3-240G) for €273, offer a pretty similar performance.


    thanks

    Is it hard to install them instead of what comes with laptop? Is it just a matter or unscrewing the old one and popping the new one in? I am thinking of buying a new laptop and replacing the hard drive straight away which means my laptop warranty might go with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    damul wrote: »
    thanks

    Is it hard to install them instead of what comes with laptop? Is it just a matter or unscrewing the old one and popping the new one in? I am thinking of buying a new laptop and replacing the hard drive straight away which means my laptop warranty might go with it.

    It normally is, unless you're talking about a Eee 1005HA which I had the pleasure to take apart recently. ;)

    Normally the HDD bay is easily accessible, 1 or 2 screws and the hatch comes off. The HDD itself is usually fixed with 4 screws inside a casing which in turn could be fixed with one or two srews to prevent the disk from sliding out of the connector by accident.

    To be sure to be sure, look up g00gle for "disassembly" or "HDD replacment" followed by make and model of your laptop. You may find even a video tutorial on Youtube. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Torqay wrote: »
    The best SSD at the moment is the Samsung SSD 830 (MZ-7PC256) for €275 or the Samsung SSD 830 (MZ-7PC128) for €175.

    The Kingston SSDNow KC100 SKC100S3B/240G for€292, and the OCZ Vertex 3 (VTX3-25SAT3-240G) for €273, offer a pretty similar performance.
    Crucial M4?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Crucial M4?

    Pretty close, but not on par with the Samsung in terms of transfer speed and write performance. Mind you, the difference is marginal when it comes to normal experience and bang-for-buck isn't too shabby either (€135/128GB or €260/256GB).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_


    Torqay wrote: »
    Pretty close, but not on par with the Samsung in terms of transfer speed and write performance. Mind you, the difference is marginal when it comes to normal experience and bang-for-buck isn't too shabby either (€135/128GB or €260/256GB).
    Samsung are a rotten company.

    I'd never knowingly buy anything they make.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Torqay wrote: »
    SSDs are pretty much on par with HDDs re power consumption.
    How do you figure this, as SSDs lack the main moving parts that the HDD would have (platters, etc)?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    the_syco wrote: »
    How do you figure this, as SSDs lack the main moving parts that the HDD would have (platters, etc)?


    You think SSDs are powered by thin air. ;)

    47635376.jpg

    If you're using a hard disc AND a solid state disc in a computer, you'll likely consume twice as much power required for your storage device(s). Or nearly... Anyway, there's alsways a price to pay. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭damul


    where is the cheapest place to buy these or any computer components online these days?

    The Samsung 830 256 GB is €329 on Komplett and the 128 GB is €179

    Amazon wont ship to Ireland for me


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    damul wrote: »
    where is the cheapest place to buy these or any computer components online these days?

    The Samsung 830 256 GB is €329 on Komplett and the 128 GB is €179

    Amazon wont ship to Ireland for me

    €167 + €8.99 for the 128 GB at pixmania, komplett delivers for free, savings: 3 Euro and 1 Cent. ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    €149 at hardwareversand.de, dunno their shipping rates to Ireland. Should be still the best offer though.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Think they are 18.99. Handy if you lumped in with somebody in the pc and building forum, as they are always ordering from there, split costs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭damul


    thanks everyone

    so Im not saving very much either way no matter where I go


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Think about the OCZ Agility 3... decent performance for 135 Euro. Seriously, you wouldn't notice a difference. Someone tops the benchmarks, they make you pay for it although the differences have little bearing in real life scenariois.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭delux


    what types of applications would SSDs not be good at running compared to HDD? and would the "tweaking" overcome this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    delux wrote: »
    what types of applications would SSDs not be good at running compared to HDD? and would the "tweaking" overcome this?

    Well, SSDs are better in "running" pretty much everything. Do you mean which applications are rather harmful re write access? That would be web browsers in particular because the write to disc as if there is there is no tomorrow.

    But that is easily diverted into a RAM disk.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    so you would have to set that up yourself when you install on an ssd hmm...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    so you would have to set that up yourself when you install on an ssd hmm...

    Yes, but it ain't arcane science. ;)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Torqay wrote: »
    Well, SSDs are better in "running" pretty much everything. Do you mean which applications are rather harmful re write access? That would be web browsers in particular because the write to disc as if there is there is no tomorrow.

    But that is easily diverted into a RAM disk.

    While it is true that MLC chips have a limited lifespan, the problem is vastly overstated, even with very heavy write usage you could realistically expect it to last at least as long as a HDD and probably far longer. The chances are it will become obsolete long before it wears itself out.

    By all means turn off a few extremely write heavy features like Hibernation, but in general peolple shouldn't be completely paranoid about write endurance and just enjoy the benefits that an SSD brings :)
    http://www.toshiba.com/taec/news/media_resources/docs/SSDmyths.pdf

    Absent any industry standard usage model, Toshiba
    developed an internal model and studied usage patterns
    for normal and heavy users.

    To even begin to reach a
    conservative endurance limit of a 64GB1 MLC NAND-based
    SSD with wear-leveling technology, a mobile user would
    have to write approximately 40 Terabytes2 (forty trillion
    bytes) of data over the expected five-year life of the drive.

    That’s equal to approximately 22GB of new data per day,
    every day – or enough to fill 4.6 DVDs, or 32 CDs daily.
    With a 128GB drive, for example, the wear would be
    spread over a larger storage area, effectively doubling the
    average daily write limit to 44GB, or more than 9 DVDs.
    In the Toshiba usage modeling study*, typical users wrote
    approximately 1.4GB/day, and heavy users wrote about
    5.2GB/day.

    Further analysis showed that auto-save and
    hibernate features could increase total data written per
    day to 2.4GB for the typical user and 9.2GB for heavy
    users. Although the specifications of Toshiba MLC SSDs
    exceed the 40 Terabyte example provided, it may help
    demonstrate that the endurance limit is so far beyond the
    likely usage of a typical mobile computer user that it isn’t
    a realistic cause for concern.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    delux wrote: »
    what types of applications would SSDs not be good at running compared to HDD? and would the "tweaking" overcome this?

    There is nothing they are worse at, and pretty well any I/O intensive operations will benefit greatly from an SSD (Booting the OS, launchinging applications, Video editing, searching files, reading and writing files etc). But CPU intensive applications( Like File Compression, encyption, video encoding to name but a few) won't run any faster aside from the initial startup being quicker.

    Think of a game for example, loading times will be far quicker from a SSD, but once a level has been loaded into memory it will perform the same regardless of whether it came from an SSD or HDD as now the performance bottleneck will be your CPU or GPU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    marco_polo wrote: »
    While it is true that MLC chips have a limited lifespan, the problem is vastly overstated

    Quite, but you don't have to push your luck either when it is easily to be avoided, no? ;)

    I f you redirect your browser into a RAM disk (i.e. via Sandboxie, which will also add another layer of security) it will actually improve the browser speed as a RAM disk beats even the fastest SSD on the market... by a country mile.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Torqay wrote: »
    Yes, but it ain't arcane science. ;)

    What I meant was, it is a realistic need? Or would the ssd last reallllly long anyway, so that you don't have to do anything with it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Torqay wrote: »
    Quite, but you don't have to push your luck either when it is easily to be avoided, no? ;)

    I f you redirect your browser into a RAM disk (i.e. via Sandboxie, which will also add another layer of security) it will actually improve the browser speed as a RAM disk beats even the fastest SSD on the market... by a country mile.

    Of course it should a consideration which is why there is no harm in turning off things like hibernation, which dumps the entire content of RAM onto the SSD whenever the computer hibernates, or moving your large download/temp folders etc. But worrying about a few MB of brower caching per day seems a bit OTT, after all how long do you need that SSD to last, 10-15 years?, I certainly will have been through a few by then. :pac:

    Also isn't a RAM disk way OTT for browser caching, after all you will still have to wait for the dynamic parts of the page to come back across the wire before the page loads completely, and even the slowest of HDDs is orders of magniture faster than broadband.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Wait a minute...people use hibernate?!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Wait a minute...people use hibernate?!

    I should have been more accurate above. Hibernate is enabled by default on a Windows installation and even if you never actually use the feature, unless you disable it, Windows will still write to the hibernate.sys file.

    To describe it as a once off RAM dump on hibernation like I did is not techncally correct, it is more like a constantly updated disk image of your RAM, so the PC is ready to go into hibernate mode any time.

    It is far harder on the disk than a pagefile, which really isn't used much unless you RAM is nearly full.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,110 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Thanks, I actually remember disabling that now when it was pointless to have such a gigantic file for no purpose. I assume sleep is similar, but uses more power.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭Torqay


    Sleep/Standby is a low power state, monitor and disks turned off, processes and handles suspended but system is memory kept "alive".


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