Roadside Shrines & Grottoes - Are they out of place in 21st century Ireland?

LordSutch

So I'm just asking the question, are (Roadside) shrines & grottoes out of place in 21st century Ireland?
Are they a relic of the past, or are they part of the living breathing Catholic Church in Ireland today?



On a personal observation, I seem to remember so many more roadside shrines & grottoes as a child,
but then again I'm not sure if that really was the case, or if it is just down to my exaggerated
childhood memories? Curious . . .

Manach

The Zeitgeist of the times is always in play, so they are still part of a Church laity wish to combine a scene of piety that is not tied to a building but part of a natural landscape. Spiritually at least it harkens back to the roadside shrines and grottos of classical Greece which served to communicate a sense of common culture among the city states.

tommy2bad

I duno how common they are in the rest of the country, but I pass 3 of them every day on a 15 mile journey. Now you mention it, I haven't seen many others but I sorta blind eye them as I'm looking at them every day. They could be all over the place and I'd miss them.

homer911

Some of them can be pretty gharish, but anything that makes people think about God can't be bad...

CMpunked

I think their nice. Some of them can be more visually stimulating that garish looking roadside modern art.

LordSutch

The strangest one I ever saw was in Dun Laoghaire, it was a 'paint on' grotto on the gable end of a red brick terrace (Cross Avenue) I think? unfortunately the artist had give the bessed virgin a serious cast in one eye which made her look cross eyed, anyway it was painted over a couple of years ago, so its gone now.

tommy2bad

LordSutch wrote: »

The strangest one I ever saw was in Dun Laoghaire, it was a 'paint on' grotto on the gable end of a red brick terrace (Cross Avenue) I think? unfortunately the artist had give the bessed virgin a serious cast in one eye which made her look cross eyed, anyway it was painted over a couple of years ago, so its gone now.

Maybe he was going for that 'looking at you wherever you are' look that holy pictures have going on.

Ken bryan

The reason why you probably see fewer . Is that you mostly travel . Like the rest of us on roads that were built in the last few years . Most of these shrines were but on the side of the old single carriage inter county roads in the 70,s .
These are rearly used . As people now travel on the motorway network .
so thats my Guess anyway.

Mohandas

I find them to be calm places.
Whatever your beliefs, I think they are now a part of Ireland's culture and heritage, like megalithic tombs, ringforts, etc.

MyKeyG

My exact sentiments. Religion aside they are part of the countries culture. Some like this one down the road from me are simply too big though.http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ennis,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=52.83824,-8.979435&spn=0.056306,0.169086&sll=40.744006,-74.006996&sspn=0.071141,0.169086&oq=Ennis+&hnear=Ennis,+County+Clare,+Ireland&t=m&z=13&layer=c&cbll=52.838372,-8.979239&panoid=Oia_LYp5vATMa-J-BzHxRg&cbp=13,124.27,,0,0

LordSutch

Most of the shrines/Gtottoes depict the statue of Mary as being a white skinned european looking woman with blue eyes, but how do the makers of these shrines know that? surely she would have been more middle eastern in appearance, quite probably with brown eyes!

That one in Ennis (post#10) is massive.

tommy2bad

LordSutch wrote: »

Most of the shrines/Gtottoes depict the statue of Mary as being a white skinned european looking woman with blue eyes, but how do the makers of these shrines know that? surely she would have been more middle eastern in appearance, quite probably with brown eyes!

That one in Ennis (post#10) is massive.

Luke thought so;

Benny_Cake

LordSutch wrote: »

Most of the shrines/Gtottoes depict the statue of Mary as being a white skinned european looking woman with blue eyes, but how do the makers of these shrines know that? surely she would have been more middle eastern in appearance, quite probably with brown eyes!

That one in Ennis (post#10) is massive.

It isn't just European / Middle Eastern either, most cultures seem to represent figures such as Christ and Mary in their own particular image.

China:



Ethiopia:

tommy2bad

I kinda like this one;

Mohandas

LordSutch wrote: »

Most of the shrines/Gtottoes depict the statue of Mary as being a white skinned european looking woman with blue eyes, but how do the makers of these shrines know that? surely she would have been more middle eastern in appearance, quite probably with brown eyes!

That one in Ennis (post#10) is massive.

Most statues I've seen are finished in plain plaster rather than skin tones, but actually they've got the depictions on most statues pretty good.



Palistianian girl :



At any rate you're missing the point, her race and nationality were and are totally irelevant, : She's a symbol of divine motherhood and peace, as these other Catholic images show ;


Our Lady of Africa


Our Lady of China

Mohandas

LordSutch wrote: »

That one in Ennis (post#10) is massive.

I guess people see what they want to see.

I only see one average sized statue in the middle of a plain walled town park/garden ?

MyKeyG

Mohandas wrote: »

LordSutch wrote: »

That one in Ennis (post#10) is massive.

I guess people see what they want to see.

I only see one average sized statue in the middle of a plain walled town park/garden ?

I'd say it's a bit bigger than the average size ones you get on the side of the road in fairness. In 31 years I think I can count on one hand how many times I've seen it used as a park. It's beside a loud busy road. The whole thing is a bit of a waste of space.

Fighting Irish

Meh, pointless

LordSutch

In relation to posts# 12,13,14 and 15, you just don't see Chinese, Indian, or African Grottoes along the roadside in Ireland!

tetrapak

Of Course they are out of place in any/every Christian society of any era, they are clearly breaking the Hebrew Commandments

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

tommy2bad

tetrapak wrote: »

Of Course they are out of place in any/every Christian society of any era, they are clearly breaking the Hebrew Commandments

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

The shrines are not of anything in heaven above or in the earth below, they are images of someone who is in the presence of God. So thats the first get out clause, the second one is we are not subject to Hebrew law.
Their at worst harmless folk religion and at best visible reminders of things we hold sacred.

Run_to_da_hills

tetrapak wrote: »

Of Course they are out of place in any/every Christian society of any era, they are clearly breaking the Hebrew Commandments

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

I would have thought the same.

These statues were scattered around the country when the majority of the population, schools and state were under the thumb of the Vatican. people have moved on now.

Planning permission should now be a legal requirement for the erection of any religious statue, shrine or minaret in a public place.

tommy2bad

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would have thought the same.

These statues were scattered around the country when the majority of the population, schools and state were under the thumb of the Vatican. people have moved on now.

Planning permission should now be a legal requirement for the erection of any religious statue, shrine or minaret in a public place.

You would have thought wrong.
I think it is now.

Peregrinus

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Planning permission should now be a legal requirement for the erection of any religious statue, shrine or minaret in a public place.

If your shrine is under 2m tall and is not illuminated, you don't need planning permission. Otherwise, you do.

(Of course, you have to erect in on land you own, or erect it on someone else's land with his permission. That's not a planning issue; more a land ownership issue. A lot of "roadside shrines" are erected on private land, facing the road, and open to access from the road.)

MyKeyG

You need planning permission if your erection is bigger than 2 metres?:eek:

Run_to_da_hills

Peregrinus wrote: »

If your shrine is under 2m tall and is not illuminated, you don't need planning permission. Otherwise, you do.

(Of course, you have to erect in on land you own, or erect it on someone else's land with his permission. That's not a planning issue; more a land ownership issue. A lot of "roadside shrines" are erected on private land, facing the road, and open to access from the road.)

Roadside "grave" stones and shrines are another issue I have with. A mate of mine got killed off a motorbike a few years ago, a marble slab about 16" x 12" with inscriptions etc was placed on the spot where the accident happened. I don't like these at all and feel a grave yard is the correct place for them. I would prefer to see a plant or shrub in placed on the spot where an accident happened with a tiny plaque instead of something hideous that can be spotted by passing motorists.

I Heart Internet

I pass 5 on my way to work every morning (I cover a fair bit of ground tho).

They vary from huge marian grottos on the edge of largish towns to a nicely kept mass rock (which I'm including in my count) to a very basic (and quite new (last 10 years) smallish crucifix and Our Lady of Fatima on a slip road off a main carriageway.

I like them. I think we have enough though - unless a community were very, very keen on making a new one.

tommy2bad

Was it the last Eucharistic congress or Marrian year that put all the crosses on top of hills?
Do you think any will be erected this time?

Gurgle

I say keep 'em.
Like thatched cottages, they're a relic of an important era in the country's history. (Its equally important that the power of the church remains a matter of history.)

Maybe we should have them 'sponsored' by corporations / foreigners with too much money.

tommy2bad

Gurgle ;
Maybe we should have them 'sponsored' by corporations

Starbucks ?

Run_to_da_hills

Ireland is not the only country full of them, you also trip over them in Mexico and Brazil. .

Plowman

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Run_to_da_hills

Plowman wrote: »

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I would guess most countries that had RC influence.

LordSutch

Plowman wrote: »

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Roadside shrines really? Just in parts or all over?

Plowman

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prinz

LordSutch wrote: »

Roadside shrines really? Just in parts or all over?

Smaller villages in rural France would still have random crosses and statues dotted here and there. A lot of rural Germany too, particularly around the Rhineland region you'll find roadside crosses, monuments, statues.. etc. They've been there for decades if not centuries and the people of all religions and none are big enough to appreciate their religious, historic and cultural values. I know of one that was erected on the spot where in the early 1940's a man in the middle of the night walked to a local height and kneeled and prayed during an allied bombing mission. The village was spared.

snafuk35

prinz wrote: »

Smaller villages in rural France would still have random crosses and statues dotted here and there. A lot of rural Germany too, particularly around the Rhineland region you'll find roadside crosses, monuments, statues.. etc. They've been there for decades if not centuries and the people of all religions and none are big enough to appreciate their religious, historic and cultural values. I know of one that was erected on the spot where in the early 1940's a man in the middle of the night walked to a local height and kneeled and prayed during an allied bombing mission. The village was spared.

But what about the other towns that were bombed to ashes? Were people not praying there too?

prinz

snafuk35 wrote: »

But what about the other towns that were bombed to ashes? Were people not praying there too?

Yes they were. I'm sure plenty of people were incinerated/buried/vapourised mid-prayer. Then again if you have to ask something so stupid to make a petty "point" I don't think there's much to be gained in replying.