No leaving cert should mean No Dole

Ruby buckton

Imo the governmment should bring in a law that people with no leaving cert get no dole, These days if you have no leaving cert you have no chance of ever getting a job. Sure you need a leaving cert for a cleaning job these days.

No you dont

CageWager

Great 1st post.

Gurgle

1. Some people aren't intellectually capable of passing the leaving cert.
2. We don't let people starve. Welcome to civilization, it's a bitch but its the best bitch we have.

ntlbell

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Imo the governmment should bring in a law that people with no leaving cert get no dole, These days if you have no leaving cert you have no chance of ever getting a job. Sure you need a leaving cert for a cleaning job these days.

Do they do spelling on these leaving cert courses you refer to?

Anyone can get a job at the moment leaving cert or PHD. Not one they might like or want or pay them enough, but a job.

leaving cert != capable of doing anything.

Doug89

I agree with this to a point.

Surely it would make some sense to not provide unemployment benefit unless either LC, LCA or some kind of Fas(/whatever it's been called now) course is completed, during which the claimant would be entitled to training allowance anyway.

I think it would stop people from falling through the cracks.

This tread will undoubtedly descend into dole bashing blah blah, but that's my 2c before it does.

ntlbell

Doug89 wrote: »

I agree with this to a point.

Surely it would make some sense to not provide unemployment benefit unless either LC, LCA or some kind of Fas(/whatever it's been called now) course is completed, during which the claimant would be entitled to training allowance anyway.

I think it would stop people from falling through the cracks.

This tread will undoubtedly descend into dole bashing blah blah, but that's my 2c before it does.

the leaving cert tests a limited skill set.

letting someone starve because they don't have it/can't pass?

ok..

Blikes

Fine but don't come crying when 5 lads that are broke because they have no leaving cert break into your house or drag you out of your car to make money to survive!

Doug89

ntlbell wrote: »

the leaving cert tests a limited skill set.

letting someone starve because they don't have it/can't pass?

ok..

Well then what would be your opinion on LCA/training course?

Ruby buckton

Deleted User wrote: »

No you dont

I learned in school that you do.

Ruby buckton

Btw im not saying unemployed people with no leaving cert should starve, they should be given vouchers for aldi or lidel

K-9

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Imo the governmment should bring in a law that people with no leaving cert get no dole, These days if you have no leaving cert you have no chance of ever getting a job. Sure you need a leaving cert for a cleaning job these days.

Ruby buckton wrote: »

I learned in school that you do.

Thread will have a short shelf life unless the standard of discussion surpasses Ordinary Junior Cert level!

Kurz

Do you have a leaving cert OP?

MickySticks

As one poster said, these people will need money and they will resort to crime to get it so your idea is stupid.

Ruby buckton

Kurz wrote: »

Do you have a leaving cert OP?

I got 515 points last year thanks

bladespin

Don't see how not having a leaving cert could stop someone getting a job

RichardAnd

Many people do not sit the leaving cert for a great many reasons and many of them find employment because simply not sitting a test in no way makes someone less intelligent than anyone else.

Kurz

Ruby buckton wrote: »

I got 515 points last year thanks

Here's a scenario for you then.

Jim leaves school at 15 to become an apprentice electrician. He does great work and pays his bills and taxes for three years, fixes peoples' electrical problems in their houses but suddenly he can't be kept on. He has no leaving cert, he gets no dole.

Ruby was in school all this time and remembered loads of things just long enough to be able to write them down on a piece of paper a few months later. He leaves school and there's no job. He's entitled to dole because he has his leaving cert.

Who should get dole? And who do you honestly think Mr Businessman wants to employ when you both apply for the toilet cleaning job?

suzie987

Does this mean that all the unemployed PhD's graduating get extra dole money???

RichardAnd

Ruby buckton wrote: »

I got 515 points last year thanks

I just seen this now, that means you're about 18. I don't like to put anyone down for their age but you clearly need a few years of life experience if you think there is any merit in what you've suggested. I'd also add that your points score will in no way be an assurance that you will never find yourself in need of the dole because there are people far more experienced than you without work.

I suggest you think about this, go out into the world and when you've got about 7-10 years of reality under your belt, look at your suggestion once again. Do you think it will make sense then?

suzie987

I would say if anything, the majority of people who left school early without a leaving cert have worked harder in their life than the majority of people who have a leaving cert.

bladespin

Just thinking about this and have a similar theory, maybe those that actually achieve a reasonably high points tally in the leaving shouldn't get any dole at all, that'd be a pretty good incentive to keep them in school/college and thereby push the knowledge based economy thing the politicians seem to love so much.

BunShopVoyeur

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Imo the governmment should bring in a law that people with no leaving cert get no dole, These days if you have no leaving cert you have no chance of ever getting a job. Sure you need a leaving cert for a cleaning job these days.

Congratulations. Possibly the most idiotic, ignorant thing that I've ever read on Boards.ie.

ntlbell

Doug89 wrote: »

Well then what would be your opinion on LCA/training course?

You fill them up with people who dont want to them, distract from the people that do because they're afraid to lose their dole.

the early 90's are looking for their idea box back.

manutd83

absolutely ridiculous,i didnt do my leaving cert and i have been in full time employment since im sixteen and i am 29 now,dont judge everybody the same,i just didnt like school,it just wasnt for me

Cuddlesworth

Ruby buckton wrote: »

I got 515 points last year thanks

I'm not sure your in a position to declare a persons worth to the state based on a fairly redundant education system.

campo

I dont have a leaving cert as I left school to work when I was 16 as my family came from a poor background and I have been working since, so if I lost my job in the morning after working the past 16 years I should not get the dole because I never did my leaving cert

The leaving cert in this country has noting to do with how intellegent you are only how much information you can crunch into your brain

cordni

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Imo the governmment should bring in a law that people with no leaving cert get no dole, These days if you have no leaving cert you have no chance of ever getting a job. Sure you need a leaving cert for a cleaning job these days.

What a totally stupid statement!! Not everyone is academic, thankfully we also have very gifted craftsmen in existance.

cordni

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Btw im not saying unemployed people with no leaving cert should starve, they should be given vouchers for aldi or lidel

Maybe you should go away and look up how to spell "LIDL"

manutd83

when the op ends up on the dole im sure he will have his leaving certificate to comfort him,he is the only one on here that sounds like he hasnt actually done his leaving

Blikes

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Btw im not saying unemployed people with no leaving cert should starve, they should be given vouchers for aldi or lidel

So they should be Homeless, Cold, Sick and miserable instead?

Cop onto yourself, you've proved that people that get 515 points in their leaving cert can be just as stupid as people that drop out of school at 16, even more so with you.

nursextreme

Ruby buckton wrote: »

I got 515 points last year thanks

What are you studying, just as a matter of interest? This may come as a bit of a shock to you, but you will never be asked at a job interview or application about the points you got in your leaving cert. First year in college in Ireland tends to be spent retraining the brain and preparing it for the future educational development due to flaws in our current secondary education system.

PeadarCo

nursextreme wrote: »

What are you studying, just as a matter of interest? This may come as a bit of a shock to you, but you will never be asked at a job interview or application about the points you got in your leaving cert. First year in college in Ireland tends to be spent retraining the brain and preparing it for the future educational development due to flaws in our current secondary education system.

Depends on the sector. In the current jobs climate for some sectors a good leaving cert is very important. Take accountancy for example leaving cert points are used as a cutoff in graduate recruitment by some firms due to the numbers applying. Specific results are also looked for.The leaving cert isn't the be end and end all but a good one is a big help and it depends on what stage of life you are at.

nursextreme

PeadarCo wrote: »

Depends on the sector. In the current jobs climate for some sectors a good leaving cert is very important. Take accountancy for example leaving cert points are used as a cutoff in graduate recruitment by some firms due to the numbers applying. Specific results are also looked for.The leaving cert isn't the be end and end all but a good one is a big help and it depends on what stage of life you are at.

Does that mean that they are using Leaving Cert Accountancy results as a method of separating applicants with the same final college grade! What about the interview process or relevant work experience there must be better ways of separating candidates. A good leaving cert is important due to its implications for entry into further education but it isn't necessarily the best way of preparing some one for a career.

hamsterboy

I don't have a Leaving Cert.
Dropped out in 5th year following a "disagreement" with the principal.
I'm far from stupid or lazy.... actually went to college and am now working in a company literally at the cutting edge of technology....
Though I will concede that there are a lot of people who simply couldn't be arsed getting schooled/trained

Cheers
HB

votecounts

nursextreme wrote: »

What are you studying, just as a matter of interest? This may come as a bit of a shock to you, but you will never be asked at a job interview or application about the points you got in your leaving cert. First year in college in Ireland tends to be spent retraining the brain and preparing it for the future educational development due to flaws in our current secondary education system.

ARTS in UCD, he has a simlar thread, wants to be a history and irish teacher.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

If you cannot post in this thread without insulting other users, then don't bother posting at all. Personal abuse is completely unacceptable both in this forum and on this website in general.

TwoShedsJackson

votecounts wrote: »

ARTS in UCD, he has a simlar thread, wants to be a history and irish teacher.

I look forward to the future 'I have an Arts Degree and can't get a job!!' thread.

bladespin

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

I look forward to the future 'I have an Arts Degree and can't get a job!!' thread.

IIRC there's already been a few with stories like that

A bit of experience and an employment record far outweigh any secondary school certificate for most jobs, I don't know any accountants who got their job from their leaving alone.

gandalf

Oh dear OP I am afraid you need to garner more life experience before you make black and white judgement calls like "no dole with no leaving cert" type ones.

From my experience you cannot use this as a barometer of someones worth to society and definitely not as whether they should be paid the dole or not.

I know of many who never completed the leaving cert who have been employed since they left school. Some have set up businesses and are responsible for giving others employment.

I also have also known some highly educated people who I would class as of very limited use in a vast majority of work situations.

However I do believe that there is a problem with a certain percentage of people on the dole who are not even making an effort to try and get employment or better themselves so they are more employable. There needs to be a method to reduce the dole on a sliding scale for these people. Social Welfare should be seen as a crutch to help you until you get back to your feet and not seen as a lifestyle choice as it appears to be for a minority on the live register.

Dubit10

Ruby buckton wrote: »

Imo the governmment should bring in a law that people with no leaving cert get no dole, These days if you have no leaving cert you have no chance of ever getting a job. Sure you need a leaving cert for a cleaning job these days.

You do realise the things these people would do to survive if you took the dole from them. They would'nt emigrate, they would'nt get a job, they would'nt set up a legit business, they would break into your house or rob you on the street.

Farmer Pudsey

Dubit10 wrote: »

You do realise the things these people would do to survive if you took the dole from them. They would'nt emigrate, they would'nt get a job, they would'nt set up a legit business, they would break into your house or rob you on the street.

they do that anyway

K-9

Mod

I think the the thread has reached its' shelf life, some good posts but there's only so far it can go