Can you get a job with a BE or do you need an ME

TimeToShine

I am in my third year of EE but I have a choice to take a BSc after this year and a two year masters. The problem is my college doesn't do any masters programs that I'm interested in, if I were to take the BE after 4 years would I be employable? I know that only masters degrees are accredited by Engineers Ireland, would this hinder my job prospects much?

Thanks in advance.

djpbarry

TimeToShine wrote: »

I am in my third year of EE but I have a choice to take a BSc after this year and a two year masters. The problem is my college doesn't do any masters programs that I'm interested in...

If you're not interested in a masters, then don't do one.

TimeToShine wrote: »

...if I were to take the BE after 4 years would I be employable?

You're obviously going to get slightly biased responses to this question on an engineering forum, but in my opinion, engineering degrees are held in high regard across many industries. That said, it's a tough time for individuals without experience to be entering the jobs market, but I'm not sure a masters is going to make a whole lot of difference in that regard.

I guess it all depends on what it is you want to do?

TimeToShine wrote: »

I know that only masters degrees are accredited by Engineers Ireland...

I don't know what you mean by this? Bachelors degrees are also accredited by EI? Your bachelors degree makes you a qualified engineer and you will be recognised as such by EI. You just won't have chartered status.

TimeToShine

If you're not interested in a masters, then don't do one.
You're obviously going to get slightly biased responses to this question on an engineering forum, but in my opinion, engineering degrees are held in high regard across many industries. That said, it's a tough time for individuals without experience to be entering the jobs market, but I'm not sure a masters is going to make a whole lot of difference in that regard.

I guess it all depends on what it is you want to do?

I'd like to do something in electrical power systems or some form of electrical engineering, UCD only offers an Electronic & Computer ME which isn't really what I'm interested in.

I don't know what you mean by this? Bachelors degrees are also accredited by EI? Your bachelors degree makes you a qualified engineer and you will be recognised as such by EI. You just won't have chartered status.

Oh it must just be the chartered status then that we were told about, but is this important enough to warrant getting a masters if one were to get a job in Ireland?

I don't mind biased opinions as long as I get as much as I can from both sides.

djpbarry

TimeToShine wrote: »

I'd like to do something in electrical power systems or some form of electrical engineering...

In which case, if you're prepared to put the work in, I think you'll be fine.

TimeToShine wrote: »

Oh it must just be the chartered status then that we were told about, but is this important enough to warrant getting a masters if one were to get a job in Ireland?

I'm not sure I understand the question? You don't need a masters to become a chartered engineer.

To be honest, if I were you, I'd just focus on getting a good degree. If you don't want to do a masters, then don't do one. You can always revisit the idea at some point in the future.

Xrox

TimeToShine wrote: »

Oh it must just be the chartered status then that we were told about, but is this important enough to warrant getting a masters if one were to get a job in Ireland?

I don't mind biased opinions as long as I get as much as I can from both sides.

Don't know if this helps you but I'm almost certain you will only need a masters to become chartered if you havent attained your Bachelors degree by 2013 the quote below is direct off the engineers ireland website and practically says that if you read between the lines.

http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/programme-accreditaton/accredited-programmes/

"Engineers who graduate from 2013 and wish to become Chartered engineers will need to hold an accredited Master Degree (Level 9), or equivalent. Level 8 Bachelor degrees will, from 2013, satisfy the requirements for MIEI membership only."


To make certain of this you might want to check the accords. (washington, sydney etc)

But either way you can through experience work your way to a title.

djpbarry

Xrox wrote: »

Don't know if this helps you but I'm almost certain you will only need a masters to become chartered if you havent attained your Bachelors degree by 2013...

Oh that's a fair point - I hadn't considered that. But still, you don't have to do a masters straight away.

Gurgle

EE as in Electrical or Electronic?
I can't comment on Electrical, but there's a severe shortage of good electronics graduates.

Also, why would an EE want to become a chartered engineer or join the IEI?

TimeToShine

Xrox wrote: »

Don't know if this helps you but I'm almost certain you will only need a masters to become chartered if you havent attained your Bachelors degree by 2013 the quote below is direct off the engineers ireland website and practically says that if you read between the lines.

http://www.engineersireland.ie/services/programme-accreditaton/accredited-programmes/

"Engineers who graduate from 2013 and wish to become Chartered engineers will need to hold an accredited Master Degree (Level 9), or equivalent. Level 8 Bachelor degrees will, from 2013, satisfy the requirements for MIEI membership only."

So basically I've made the cut-off by a year (I think, I graduate in 2013 and I assume/hope "graduates from 2013" excludes 2013). Does this mean graduating in 2014 with only a BE can't become chartered engineers in Ireland?

EE as in Electrical or Electronic?
I can't comment on Electrical, but there's a severe shortage of good electronics graduates.

Also, why would an EE want to become a chartered engineer or join the IEI?

Well with my module choice I am doing both at the moment but I have to specialize for final year, and I'll probably pick Electrical purely because I hate computer programming. I absolutely loved solid-state physics, electronic circuits and digital logic but it looks to me like all Electronic Engineers need to be comfortable with programming, something I hate with a passion.

I was under the impression that becoming a chartered engineer/joining the IEI gave you better job prospects both in ireland and abroad. Surely if two people with the same qualification apply for a job the one accredited and chartered will get the job ahead of the other guy?

Thanks for the replies.

Gurgle

TimeToShine wrote: »

I was under the impression that becoming a chartered engineer/joining the IEI gave you better job prospects both in ireland and abroad.

Not that I've heard of.
While they accept all kinds of engineers (or at least their money), I don't know of any benefit to anyone except civil engineers.

-edit- I just did a double-take there: You're about to go into final year and can still choose between electrical and electronic?
That seems odd, they're entirely different disciplines.

kenon

TimeToShine wrote: »

I'll probably pick Electrical purely because I hate computer programming. I absolutely loved solid-state physics, electronic circuits and digital logic but it looks to me like all Electronic Engineers need to be comfortable with programming, something I hate with a passion.

I was under the impression that becoming a chartered engineer/joining the IEI gave you better job prospects both in ireland and abroad. Surely if two people with the same qualification apply for a job the one accredited and chartered will get the job ahead of the other guy?

That's still very much electronics rather than electrical and programming is fairly unavoidable.

To answer your question OP, yes, you can get a job with a BE. I did a ME after my BEng as I felt it would give me a better chance at getting a job but I most likely would have been able to get a job without one as my classmates did.

I really doubt if employers are too concerned with "chartered" status in Ireland. It's mostly your degree and experience they are bothered about. BTW, It's €285 a year for the CEng after your name.

djpbarry

TimeToShine wrote: »

So basically I've made the cut-off by a year (I think, I graduate in 2013 and I assume/hope "graduates from 2013" excludes 2013).

I would assume that "from 2013" includes 2013.

TimeToShine wrote: »

Well with my module choice I am doing both at the moment but I have to specialize for final year, and I'll probably pick Electrical purely because I hate computer programming.

There is absolutely no way you can avoid programming as an electrical engineer. Absolutely no way. In fact, if you're serious about becoming any kind of engineer, an inability to programme is going to be a very serious disadvantage.

TimeToShine wrote: »

I was under the impression that becoming a chartered engineer/joining the IEI gave you better job prospects both in ireland and abroad.

You're far better off joining an organisation like the IEEE to be honest - there are far more benefits. Besides, if someone has the necessary experience and qualification to obtain chartered status, then as far as a prospective employer is concerned, the CV will speak for itself - "chartered" isn't going to add anything extra.

flash1080

djpbarry wrote: »

I would assume that "from 2013" includes 2013.
There is absolutely no way you can avoid programming as an electrical engineer. Absolutely no way. In fact, if you're serious about becoming any kind of engineer, an inability to programme is going to be a very serious disadvantage.

Depends on what field you go into tbh.

pljudge321

flash1080 wrote: »

Depends on what field you go into tbh.

Even with stuff like excel programming skills are a massive advantage. In previous jobs I automated processes using VBA that would have taken some people days at a time to do.

eire-kp

My friend whos an electronic engineer explained it to me this way that having a masters in EE is fine but of no great benefit when getting a job.
But there was no real point in being charted as an EE..it is really for civils who go self employed signing off on builds etc?

TimeToShine

Gurgle wrote: »

Not that I've heard of.
While they accept all kinds of engineers (or at least their money), I don't know of any benefit to anyone except civil engineers.

-edit- I just did a double-take there: You're about to go into final year and can still choose between electrical and electronic?
That seems odd, they're entirely different disciplines.

If I choose Electrical I leave with a 4 year BE and if I choose Electronic I automatically go into the 5 year masters program, for people who wanted to choose between an Electronic BE and Electrical BE they had to make their mind up last year but I decided to delay it.

TimeToShine

djpbarry wrote: »

I would assume that "from 2013" includes 2013.
There is absolutely no way you can avoid programming as an electrical engineer. Absolutely no way. In fact, if you're serious about becoming any kind of engineer, an inability to programme is going to be a very serious disadvantage.

I know how to program, I've done modules in C, C++ and HTML, and I didn't do badly in them it's just that it isn't something that I really am interested in as much as actual practical engineering so I'd rather pick the discipline that involves less of it.

pljudge321

TimeToShine wrote: »

Well with my module choice I am doing both at the moment but I have to specialize for final year, and I'll probably pick Electrical purely because I hate computer programming. I absolutely loved solid-state physics, electronic circuits and digital logic but it looks to me like all Electronic Engineers need to be comfortable with programming, something I hate with a passion.

Power electronics seems like it might be your thing.

carbon nanotube

alas power electronics, smpsu, etc has an element of programming also, pics and mpu's etc

its an area i missed out on so im feeling the pain.

millser19

I may be adding this a little late but Im also in third yr UCD Electrical engineering, and they have introduced numerous new masters programs for the 3+2 option this year. Im looking mainly at the ME's in Electrical Energy, Energy Systems and Engineering with Business, but they have many others out there.

Some advantages which have prompted me to pursue this course of action are
i) the first yr is covered under 'free fees'
ii) there is an organised 6-7 month placement in your interested field from january
iii) the masters will give you the 5yrs of 3rd level study you need to eventually get chartered engineer status, if thats what you want . .

kenon

eire-kp wrote: »

My friend whos an electronic engineer explained it to me this way that having a masters in EE is fine but of no great benefit when getting a job.

That's simply not true.

There were many EE jobs when I was looking for work that specifically requested that you have a masters. In fact, just last week I got an e-mail from a recruiter last week for a "patent analyst" role and one of the requirements was a "masters degree in a related field".

Another benefit would be that a recent MEng graduate will most likely get a higher starting wage than a recent BEng graduate.

joseph brand

djpbarry wrote: »

That said, it's a tough time for individuals without experience to be entering the jobs market, but I'm not sure a masters is going to make a whole lot of difference in that regard.

Any solution to this?

djpbarry

joseph brand wrote: »

Any solution to this?

Well, employers generally want to see demonstrable skills and knowledge, so you can always brush up on both in your spare time. A simple example would be learning new programming languages. Working on your own projects would also look good on your CV - that could be something like a software project or, for hardware aficionados, pop down to your local Maplin (or similar), get yourself some components and get soldering (something useful). Or you could just rip open some old stuff you might have lying about at home and and do some harvesting. If you want to do a bit of both, you could play around with microcontrollers. Obviously, this is all from an electronics viewpoint ('cause that's what I did in Uni), but I'm sure there's plenty that could be done if it's power systems (for example) that one is interested in - designing/modelling control systems, for example.

And of course, apart from helping you learn stuff and/or demonstrate skills/knowledge, it shows you're proactive - employers like that, regardless of what field you work in.

kevohmsford

The main problem at the moment is most companies want engineers with experience. They do not seem to want to spend time and money training up recently qualified graduates.
So it does not really matter, to a certain extent, if you have a masters degrees or bachelors, experience seems to be the key in this country at the moment.
Obviously a person with a masters should have an advantage bachelors degree when applying for work but experience will get you the job.

Gurgle

kevohmsford wrote: »

The main problem at the moment is most companies want engineers with experience. They do not seem to want to spend time and money training up recently qualified graduates.

Experience can be gained through hobby projects, and demonstrates interest. I'd hire interest over professional experience.
Too many people went through college with an expectation of walking into a handy well-paid job as soon as they finished, cram for exams and don't even bother trying to understand how stuff works. We've had graduates in for interview who couldn't draw a capacitor's charging curve or describe what a transistor does.

alias no.9

Just to clarify something regarding Chartership, it takes a minimum of 4 years post graduate training and experience to become a Chartered Engineer with Engineers Ireland so it really shouldn't dictate your choices right now. Figure out what's the right path for you, there are also plenty of options for part time Masters too and you may even find an employer would sponsor some or all of your fees.

Turbulent Bill

djpbarry wrote: »

Well, employers generally want to see demonstrable skills and knowledge, so you can always brush up on both in your spare time.

I'd go further and say that employers want skills that are both demonstrable and transferable, which lots of graduates have but just don't think to put on their CVs - they undersell themselves. Teamwork (group college project), numerical analysis, communications (presentations to class) etc. are all things that grads can demonstrate straight from college and which employers look for.

You also need to be able show a potential employer that you understand how you can use your skills to help their business. For example, a college project by itself probably won't interest an employer (unless it's in a related field), but showing clearly that you can solve an engineering problem from scratch is absolutely useful.

djpbarry

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Teamwork (group college project), numerical analysis, communications (presentations to class) etc. are all things that grads can demonstrate straight from college and which employers look for.

True enough. I think communication skills in particular are something that a lot of people say they have, but really don't. If you genuinely are good at communicating complex ideas and you can demonstrate this, that's a big plus.

Equium

TimeToShine wrote: »

So basically I've made the cut-off by a year (I think, I graduate in 2013 and I assume/hope "graduates from 2013" excludes 2013). Does this mean graduating in 2014 with only a BE can't become chartered engineers in Ireland?

Nope, you haven't made the cut-off point - Those graduating in 2013 or afterwards will require a Master's to become chartered. Luckily I will finish up before the deadline but, as already stated on here, gaining chartership as an EE may not be a distinct advantage in terms of gaining employment. As such, I would only suggest doing a Master's if it really interested you or you wanted to specialise in a specific area of your field.