Irish casualties of WWl - accurate figures

jos28

I am curious about the actual number of Irishmen that died in WWl. I have read figures that ranged from 27,000 to 49,500. Any ideas on where to find the most accurate account ?

maddragon

The figure on the Irish memorial in Messines Ridge is in the region of 50000 if I recall correctly.

Dogwatch

The Rolls of Honour in St Patricks Cathedral, Dublin and at The War Memorial Gardens, Kilmainham are generally accepted to contain 49,500 names of Irish War Dead in WW1

getz

i dont thing you could ever get a true number as there was a large number of irishmen with families living in the UK who died,and may not have been classed as irish on the death cert

arnhem44

The most accurate number hopefully should be established in the next few years.Each county is been covered one by one with various war dead databases and books been compiled,these will all be gathered together and the memorial records it is hoped will be updated to show accurate details and the true figure.The IMR is unreliable to a certain extent as it included many names of Irish decent who were not Irish by birth and missed many of those who were.For more information see this post on the War Talk forum.
http://war-talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29

jos28

Thank you all for your responses. I now understand why the figures are so diverse. 27,000 up to 49,500 is some difference but I see now where the different figures come from. Thanks again !

tac foley

getz wrote: »

i dont thing you could ever get a true number as there was a large number of irishmen with families living in the UK who died,and may not have been classed as irish on the death cert

That's a fact. My maternal grandfather, William V. Collins, was one of them. He was killed on June 21, 1917.

His widow finally got a death certificate in 1921.

tac

enfield

When he enlisted he put his place of birth as Glasgow when he enlisted in Stratford while living in Linslade in Bedfordshire.
Tom.

getz

tac foley wrote: »

That's a fact. My maternal grandfather, William V. Collins, was one of them. He was killed on June 21, 1917.

His widow finally got a death certificate in 1921.

tac

my irsh gt grandfather living in chester lost two brothers in turkey

tac foley

enfield wrote: »

When he enlisted he put his place of birth as Glasgow when he enlisted in Stratford while living in Linslade in Bedfordshire.
Tom.

Tom - that is the truth.:eek:

He had just deserted my grandmother and his newly-born daughter, who, at that time, lived in Linslade not far from my grandmother's family. He returned, under suffrance and threat of dire military punishment, sometime in early 1917 to confront his wife and daughter. As he left, he picked her up and in doing so, caught his spur on her leg, leaving a cut that scarred her for the rest of her life. She died in 2008, aged 93.

In spite of being a bit of a rogue, he nevertheless paid the price that so many of his generation paid - on the Somme. He is buried in Templeux-le-Guérard extension, and the last time I was there, I left him a set of my shoulder stars and crowns and a collar dog. At that moment I had never been so near such a close family member for years.

BTW - I'd like to say a public 'thank you' to enfield, who has been very helpful with the provision useful websites to further research my g'father.

tac

Snickers Man

Dogwatch wrote: »

The Rolls of Honour in St Patricks Cathedral, Dublin and at The War Memorial Gardens, Kilmainham are generally accepted to contain 49,500 names of Irish War Dead in WW1

But as I understand it, many of those names are of men who died while serving with Irish regiments, eg Royal Dublin Fusiliers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, Leinster Regiment, Connaught Rangers etc.

The majority of them, but by no means all, would have been Irish born. But a goodly proportion, perhaps as much as a third, would have been ordinary recruits or conscripts from "the mainland".

Then again, a lot of the Irish born soldiers who served with "English" regiments might have been "garrison babies", born while their fathers were serving here. This would be especially true of counties with large barracks and garrison towns, like Kildare with the Curragh.

It all depends on how you define "Irish" at the end of the day.

kabakuyu

You could include those with Irish parents who were born elsewhere,but would have considered themselves Irish,but for the purposes of a more accurate figure I would only include those who were born in Ireland. I would have to say the amount of "garrison Babies" would be quite low but should be easy to verify from casualty lists,census records,and the SDGW database.

enfield

The Project has now been abandoned. The years of apathy have taken their toll and won. God Bless our gallant Irishmen and women, I am sure the time will come when you are all remembered in the future.
Tom.

Snickers Man

enfield wrote: »

The Project has now been abandoned. The years of apathy have taken their toll and won. God Bless our gallant Irishmen and women, I am sure the time will come when you are all remembered in the future.
Tom.

Project?

jonniebgood1

enfield wrote: »

The Project has now been abandoned. The years of apathy have taken their toll and won. God Bless our gallant Irishmen and women, I am sure the time will come when you are all remembered in the future.
Tom.

I am unsure what project you refer to but I do not agree that it is future people that will remember Irish WWI participants.

I think there is a widescale recognition of Irish victims of WWI. THis has blossomed in the past 20-25 years as people become more familiar with the sacrifices made. The fact that this has taken place is shown in the number of memorials and dedications that have appeared in this time period. Reference the Ypres memorial at Messines or the refurbished Islandbridge gardens memorial for large scale proof of this. For more local recognition reference the Bandon memorial or Inishowen recognition from just last year.