opinions on sires for sucklers

1chippy

quick question i thought id' throw out there. ive six cows with prids (estrumated today) should be ready for the bull and not sure what to put on them.
four of them would be 3/4 slash pure limo cows (3rd calvers) fairly big shapey enough, no issues with previous calvings.
one big square charlaois cross sim (5-6 calver) big rough looking brutish type.
one sim cow (4 calver) no great shape but good lenghty tall animal.
could you throw out your opinions bearing in mind were kinda testing the water with different breeding this year. Progressive genetics catalogue preferably. we sell off as weanlings.

bogman_bass

in a limo maybe FL25 or adx

npp or ICR or MVO in a charolais

would you try parthenaise? CBQ or VUL

Bizzum

I'd be thinking along the lines of a good Charolais bull. Maybe LGL, a Domino son.
For me it's hard to beat a good Charolais weanling.

Bodacious

Bizzum wrote: »

I'd be thinking along the lines of a good Charolais bull. Maybe LGL, a Domino son.
For me it's hard to beat a good Charolais weanling.

+1 Try CF85 or Limkiln Bosco on them 3 lims and you wont be disappointed. great growthy saleable yellow weanlings

Indubitable

Blues cross well on Limousin. The gap in price on the continental breeds has closed alot though. It has where I am anyway. Not sure if BBQ straws are still available?

Would also lean towards MVO if going charolais. Maybe KIB.

Can't recommend Limousin's really as the only one I ever used much was SIX who is no longer available apparently.

Muckit

Bizzum wrote: »

I'd be thinking along the lines of a good Charolais bull. Maybe LGL, a Domino son.
For me it's hard to beat a good Charolais weanling.

Domino was a serious bull. Look at all the sons of his in AI

Richk2012

Indubitable wrote: »

Blues cross well on Limousin. The gap in price on the continental breeds has closed alot though. It has where I am anyway. Not sure if BBQ straws are still available?

Would also lean towards MVO if going charolais. Maybe KIB.

Can't recommend Limousin's really as the only one I ever used much was SIX who is no longer available apparently.

BBQ is no longer being used. Low semen production I was told . I ordered 25 of him and I only got 15 . Dovea are pushing VDV (maserati) as his replacement. Got the remaining of him . A bit weary to use him because i no very little about him . If they were mine id be crossing the limos with a blue anyway . Or PG's Ross Alo is ment to be a good cross on 1/2 limousins ??? Crossmolina Euro charlaois , the son of thronton voldermont ???

1chippy

cheers for all the help. wouldnt have usually considered charlaois (had a bad run with them maybe 20 yrs back) i just remember dad dismayed every evening between losses calving and sleepy calves when born. I might try lgl on the charlaois. the sim going to run with our own limo stock bull . the four limos. AZL looks like a right enough animal. Fhz on 1. happy with this years result anyway. And very tempted to try Dep. or am i just a gluten for punishment?

pakalasa

If you have fine big cows then I wouldn't be too worried about using a fairly easy calving bull like CF85. You will be calving in early Jan if AI'ing now so it should be easier to restrict feed then before calving. More difficult to do when cows are outdoors.
The FHZ BB bull is good for 3/4 bred Lim cows too. He seems to bring more growth than most BB bulls.

redzerologhlen

1chippy wrote: »

cheers for all the help. wouldnt have usually considered charlaois (had a bad run with them maybe 20 yrs back) i just remember dad dismayed every evening between losses calving and sleepy calves when born. I might try lgl on the charlaois. the sim going to run with our own limo stock bull . the four limos. AZL looks like a right enough animal. Fhz on 1. happy with this years result anyway. And very tempted to try Dep. or am i just a gluten for punishment?

To be honest if you have the right cows and feed them right you shouldnt have much trouble regardless of breed. Have a friend that has a few calfs by giga and hes around 22% for calving and they have all calved themselves so far. A big roomy cow will calf almost anything you give to her so I wouldnt say your a gluten for punishment at all, If the cow has been easily calved in the past I would go for it.

RobinBanks

Richk2012 wrote: »

Crossmolina Euro charlaois , the son of thronton voldermont ???

and also out of a CF52 cow.

limo_100

pakalasa wrote: »

If you have fine big cows then I wouldn't be too worried about using a fairly easy calving bull like CF85. You will be calving in early Jan if AI'ing now so it should be easier to restrict feed then before calving. More difficult to do when cows are outdoors.
The FHZ BB bull is good for 3/4 bred Lim cows too. He seems to bring more growth than most BB bulls.

didnt you use azl pak?? have you any of his calves on the ground what are they like??

pakalasa

limo_100 wrote: »

didnt you use azl pak?? have you any of his calves on the ground what are they like??

Funny, but I used him 3 times and 2 repeated, so I used different straws on these. The one that held hasn't calved yet.

island of tighe

id also use a blue on the limos.they are the only cow to breed a good blue.im still using ryp (rocky du pont) here.i have 15 straws left i reckon they are the last ones around. im going to use maserati next year.my cousin is using him at hte moment so i will get a look at the calves before i take the plunge.
i think the quality of blue bulls in ai has seriously decreased in the last two years.theres no decent bulls to replace edj ryp byu jok fhz ovo.ive seen calves from all the new ai bulls and they are just not breeding as well

Bizzum

Over the years I've crossed Lim, CH and BB on good cows, even sometimes BB x Pedigree CH cows. I think overall the best weanlings were off the CH bull, particurlarly if it's heavy weanlings you want and the cow can bring a bit of style to the mix.
I will say though if you have been away from Charolais, you want to know your cows. Some of our cows will throw as big a lim calf as a CH calf. Others we keep for the AI man!

Richk2012

island of tighe wrote: »

id also use a blue on the limos.they are the only cow to breed a good blue.im still using ryp (rocky du pont) here.i have 15 straws left i reckon they are the last ones around. im going to use maserati next year.my cousin is using him at hte moment so i will get a look at the calves before i take the plunge.
i think the quality of blue bulls in ai has seriously decreased in the last two years.theres no decent bulls to replace edj ryp byu jok fhz ovo.ive seen calves from all the new ai bulls and they are just not breeding as well

Have you tried Canadian Club by PG . He is ment to be a great cross on tall plain cows ???

1chippy

prids worked perfect six cows all mad bulling last night. put sim out with bull. put lgl on big sim cross charlaois. put lgl on one limo. put stq on another. azl on another. curaheen apostle on another. ai man completly out of fhz and said couldnt get them anymore.

Bizzum

1chippy wrote: »

prids worked perfect six cows all mad bulling last night. put sim out with bull. put lgl on big sim cross charlaois. put lgl on one limo. put stq on another. azl on another. curaheen apostle on another. ai man completly out of fhz and said couldnt get them anymore.

Hope they all hold for you. You have a right mix there!. I'm interested to see yoiu went for a Sim. I meant to say earlier in the thread that one of the best calves this year at home is a Sim calf (by KFY) out of a Limx cow.

1chippy

Had a talk with ai man and was discussing whether there would be as much of a market for exporting in two years. he reckons we are going to scare off the exporters with current prices for a while. thats the reason i left the choices slightly random at least there should be a fight round the ring for a couple of them. although if the sim comes a heifer she prob wont be for selling. im hopeing they hold too bizzum. i bought four springers on friday, they are a bit late for our system so reckon the prids will be out again when they calve and try pull them back. the lad we bought them off reckoned a shot of alymicen after calving helped get them back in order faster for bulling.

Bizzum

1chippy wrote: »

the lad we bought them off reckoned a shot of alymicen after calving helped get them back in order faster for bulling.

Any idea what he was basing this on?

1chippy

Bizzum wrote: »

Any idea what he was basing this on?

said any infection or tear that may be caused by calving will heal quicker and better chance of getting cows cycling; what do you think?

just do it

1chippy wrote: »

Bizzum wrote: »

Any idea what he was basing this on?

said any infection or tear that may be caused by calving will heal quicker and better chance of getting cows cycling; what do you think?

Pointless on a routine basis. Could even help slow down cleaning of the womb.

ddogsbollix

i like the parthenaise alot. the only thing throwing me off is that i heard ya dont get a juctified price in the mart cause they are not a popular breed but they have serious muscle...!

Bodacious

I bought a 8 month old weanling privately that i liked, was awaiting ai docket confirmation as to what ai sire she was out of.

Thought this lad was muscley but not very tall... anyone have replacement heifers or cattle out of him, i saw nothing super out of him on my travels, one maybe but out of a great cow in fairness

johnpawl

Just looking at the dovea site there, progeny of arbitre shown, won roscrea fat stock. New pt bull balto also featured http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6hH9VcSebMA
They might be worth a chance I'm thinking

johnpawl

ddogsbollix wrote: »

i like the parthenaise alot. the only thing throwing me off is that i heard ya dont get a juctified price in the mart cause they are not a popular breed but they have serious muscle...!

I've a few of them getting the road in march so we'll see how they do

Farmer Pudsey

1chippy wrote: »

prids worked perfect six cows all mad bulling last night. put sim out with bull. put lgl on big sim cross charlaois. put lgl on one limo. put stq on another. azl on another. curaheen apostle on another. ai man completly out of fhz and said couldnt get them anymore.

Well did they all calve Ok Chippy and what sort of calves did you get. What did you do with the springers.

bogman_bass

Bodacious wrote: »

I bought a 8 month old weanling privately that i liked, was awaiting ai docket confirmation as to what ai sire she was out of.

Thought this lad was muscley but not very tall... anyone have replacement heifers or cattle out of him, i saw nothing super out of him on my travels, one maybe but out of a great cow in fairness

Had none myself but saw a few calves. like you said short but mucly. the bull himself a was a clas bull. Very similer to ROX

Bodacious

bogman_bass wrote: »

Had none myself but saw a few calves. like you said short but mucly. the bull himself a was a clas bull. Very similer to ROX

Cheers Bog, when the man first said FL.... i was like oh no... Better than FL22 anyway, everyone of them are fruit of the loop and very light of bone IMO

rayzorsharpest

island of tighe wrote: »

id also use a blue on the limos.they are the only cow to breed a good blue.im still using ryp (rocky du pont) here.i have 15 straws left i reckon they are the last ones around. im going to use maserati next year.my cousin is using him at hte moment so i will get a look at the calves before i take the plunge.
i think the quality of blue bulls in ai has seriously decreased in the last two years.theres no decent bulls to replace edj ryp byu jok fhz ovo.ive seen calves from all the new ai bulls and they are just not breeding as well

U must not have seen any AJY so?? coz ive some great calves off him. Also STQ is breeding well off 3/4 bred lms

Juniorhurler

I have saw maserati calves and they are disappointing. Looked at them yesterday in the yard of a good blue breeder and he is raging over them. He reckons he will go stq mainly this year.

Bigbird1

rayzorsharpest wrote: »

U must not have seen any AJY so?? coz ive some great calves off him. Also STQ is breeding well off 3/4 bred lms

Would you stick up a few pics of his calves when you get a chance,any trouble calving to him?

Bigbird1

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I have saw maserati calves and they are disappointing. Looked at them yesterday in the yard of a good blue breeder and he is raging over them. He reckons he will go stq mainly this year.

Some blue bulls are just no good in cross breeding,eg Giga and Empire.
I just dont know why AI Companys push unproven bulls,and say they have seen progeny of a certain bull only for them to end up breeding pure sh1te.eg Sang Dor the charolais dovea brought in a few years back.

Richk2012

I used maserati VDV on some cows last year .
Have 3 calves on the ground at the moment and very dissapointed to be honest.

One of the cows (BBxFR) last year had one of the best heifer calves by BBQ , and this year has a really plain poorly marked bull calf .

I agree you cant judge a bull on the merits of 3 calves , but these 3 calves are all from blue cross cows and they are lacking shape compared to last years calves from the same cows .


Im bought STQ , AZL and a few DBZ straws this year.

Juniorhurler

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Some blue bulls are just no good in cross breeding,eg Giga and Empire.
I just dont know why AI Companys push unproven bulls,and say they have seen progeny of a certain bull only for them to end up breeding pure sh1te.eg Sang Dor the charolais dovea brought in a few years back.

Definitely agree about Giga anyhow. His calves are shocking, both pedigree and commercial.

Bodacious

Richk2012 wrote: »

I used maserati VDV on some cows last year .
Have 3 calves on the ground at the moment and very dissapointed to be honest.

One of the cows (BBxFR) last year had one of the best heifer calves by BBQ , and this year has a really plain poorly marked bull calf .

I agree you cant judge a bull on the merits of 3 calves , but these 3 calves are all from blue cross cows and they are lacking shape compared to last years calves from the same cows .


Im bought STQ , AZL and a few DBZ straws this year.

azl = very mediocre and no height at all

1chippy

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Well did they all calve Ok Chippy and what sort of calves did you get. What did you do with the springers.

all repeated. all bar one held on repeat to stock bull and oldest cow still to calve and get hung up aswell.
Springers ended up costing me well. 1 premature calf, pulled through but not much to look at, shes back in calf due in a couple of weeks. 1 dead calf, heifer turned mental so fattened and got a bit of a bidding war going on her but reckon i ended up out of pocket about 500 on her. 1 caesarian that had a smashing calf, one of the best ever round here that died in the fire. fattened her and took a better loss on her reckon about 800 and the one i wasnt pushed on threw a decent u grading bull, that i also lost in the fire. shes due in a few weeks too.
all in all a costly bit of messing but sure thats life. great having the cows drop together though this year all threw decent calves and if i dont burn the place down i might be able to sell a few of their weanlings this year

just do it

1chippy wrote: »

all repeated. all bar one held on repeat to stock bull and oldest cow still to calve and get hung up aswell.
Springers ended up costing me well. 1 premature calf, pulled through but not much to look at, shes back in calf due in a couple of weeks. 1 dead calf, heifer turned mental so fattened and got a bit of a bidding war going on her but reckon i ended up out of pocket about 500 on her. 1 caesarian that had a smashing calf, one of the best ever round here that died in the fire. fattened her and took a better loss on her reckon about 800 and the one i wasnt pushed on threw a decent u grading bull, that i also lost in the fire. shes due in a few weeks too.
all in all a costly bit of messing but sure thats life. great having the cows drop together though this year all threw decent calves and if i dont burn the place down i might be able to sell a few of their weanlings this year

Jeez chippy hard to take all that on the chin. It sounds like a John B Keane letter to the revenue commissioners.

johnpawl

Lads what would ye think of kilmoney Bruce on AaxFr cows for replacements?

blue5000

johnpawl wrote: »

Lads what would ye think of kilmoney Bruce on AaxFr cows for replacements?

They'd want to be milky cows. He has 5 stars within the breed for milk but that doesn't count for much and it's only 21% reliability. Maybe someone else on here has more info, but in my experience blondes are a better terminal sire.

Juniorhurler

blue5000 wrote: »

They'd want to be milky cows. He has 5 stars within the breed for milk but that doesn't count for much and it's only 21% reliability. Maybe someone else on here has more info, but in my experience blondes are a better terminal sire.

Blonde cross really well with the blues. They can be short of milk bit crossed from the aa x brfr they will be o.k for milk. You could not go another cross of blonde and keep milk though.

johnpawl

Would they make good cows I wonder, thinking blue, blonde and part straws into them. Don't know much about blondes but neighbour got a blonde bull and he's very happy with the calves.