Friend caught up in a cult. Need help!

raul2010

Hi,
I have a very close friend who has been caught up in some form of cult. We have no idea how to deal with this and thought to check on here to see if anybody has had similar experiences or could point us in the right direction. The background is that about a year ago, he started attending "workgroups" with some people he met at a convention. There is a religous theme to it and he is now meditating the whole time and performing spirtual and some form of black magic rituals. The problem is that he is a stay at home husband with three small kids who are currently being neglected. His whole personality has changed and he has been taking money from his wife's account to pay for these workgroups. There are now larger conventions coming up that cost a lot more money. It is causing huge arguments between them. His wife who is also a close friend is at her wits end and wants to help her husband rather than simply walking away and I am posting on her behalf.

Has anybody any experience in dealing with this sort of thing? How can we make him see sense again as he is a completely different person now?

okiss

Hello Raul,
Tell your friends wife to only have a bank account in her name only and to take away any bank cards/credit cards that he has. I would ask the bank to cancel all atm and credit cards that are in joint names and to issue a card in her name only with a new pin number - get this sent to another address which is not her home. I would also get the children allowance paid into an account in her name only also. You need to stop him having any access to cash or credit.
I knew of someone who got involved in a cult, his wife was understanding and tried to get him out of this. He got money together and left Ireland. His wife is now on her own with a few small children to bring up.
I know that there are people here in Ireland who have helped get people out of cults and who know a lot about them also. I don't know there names but if you contact the switchboard of the Archbishop's House, Drumcondra which is (01) 8379253 or Veritas head office in Middle Abbey St on Tel: 01 878 8177 as they may be able to advise you further on this. Can you let us know on boards how you get on.

raul2010

Hi okiss, thanks for the quick reply. Money has been recently cut off and his friends/family have been told not to loan him any more money. This was done last week. What is the Veritas ogranisation that you recommend we contact? I'd like to have a little more information before calling.

okiss

Veritas publish books on religion so they might know the names of people who work in this area or may have published books in regards to cults.
They have a shop in Middle Abbey St, Dublin 1.
Good Luck with what your doing - your friend and his wife are lucky to have you.

18AD

Would she be worried if he was spending the money on a hobby? If so, maybe try to understand what it is that he's doing.

That said, any group who looks for large amounts of money for spiritual matters is 100% of the time a scam. No they have nothing of value, but no teaching is ever worth large sums of money.

wayoutwest

raul2010 - what is the name of the cult that your friend is in? What makes you believe that he is practising 'black magic'. Apart from probably feeling guilty about squandering money that his family can't afford,how has his personallity changed?

lolo62

i hung out with a similar group like the one your describing
i was soul searching and coming out of a difficult time when i came across the group..their meditation training was good and i also wanted to learn magic
the problem is that they prey on vulneraibility (not consciously they genuinely mean well and believe they can 'help' you) and then love bomb you...all swings and roundaouts at first
my alarm bells rang loud and clear when they asked me to attend a 2 day workshop that cost €425 (which they call 'investment' not fee)
i was lucky in that i had been floating around spiritual groups for a while and didnt feel they were offering me anything i couldnt get elsewhere for free
the way these things work is that its a pyramid scheme
you start out as an 'initiate' then you become and 'adept' then a 'master'
sounds great doesnt it
loads of these new religions around at the moment, although none of them would ever call themselves that


i would try not to get too worked up...it could be a phase for your friend...he's probably flying high on whatever energy he's getting at these workshops but if hes an intelligent guy he'll come down and smell the bs eventually

why dont you go along to some get togethers with him...try and show your 'support' while getting a feel yourself for whats going on and what it is he's getting from this group thats made him change so abruptly..

celticcrash

Find out the name of the groups his attending. The more info you give the more info you will get back.

Greyfoot

Uncalled help is intervention. Intervention invented and practiced by men. Men who practice intervention giving help that is not needed nor asked for. Oh men, what happened to free will?

wayoutwest

Greyfoot - sorry if I'm being a bit stupid,but what the xxxx are you trying to say?

Oryx

Greyfoot, the op has asked for help, please try to keep your input helpful to the situation at hand.

OP, who in this mans circle of friends (outside the 'cult') does he have whose opinion he would value? Can they attempt to talk to him? Unfortunately depending on the nature of the organisation, it may be difficult to get him to see outside of their viewpoint. Some of these crowds are quite defensive and can alienate their members from those who might influence them to leave the group.

Greyfoot

This topic is in the spirituality section. A cult-or the cult in question-might not be necessary related to spiritualism. In fact whoever asks for money instead accepting offerings for help has nothing to do with spiritualism.
As for my comment above-the man in question never asked for help, he seeked help himself in the form of an alleged cult, and real spiritual advice here is> unless someone asks you for help leave him or her be. Of course the OP`s friend of friend or the man in question`s wife pledged for help but it is noone`s duty to help unless it is called for.
this whole world is in its present state because of man wants to tell other man what to do or not, what to think of something or not and what to say of something or not.
This, my friends is robbing of one`s free will completely...

18AD

Greyfoot wrote: »

This, my friends is robbing of one`s free will completely...

No it's not. You can be helpful without being coercive.

This "leave it be" attitude is the greatest cowardice.

Greyfoot

18AD wrote: »

No it's not. You can be helpful without being coercive.

This "leave it be" attitude is the greatest cowardice.

Let us re-read the OP`s post again. When did he mentioned that the man`s change in behaviour was bad?
1. His three kids being neglected.
2. He has pulled money off of her wife`s bank account.

These two things might be bad but we do not know the circumstances. What does he mean the kids being neglected? Man does not feed them? Does not give them attention they seek? Or reduced the attention he used to give? This act is almost 100% that coming from the mouth of the woman who genuinely feels that her husband whom she knew has changed. The man turned his attention elsewhere, he seeked attention himself and feels great in a group where he feels belong. This reduced attention towards the woman(mind you-attention can be and is sometimes negative attention, like criticism, judging others, correcting others) in turn forces the woman to get the usual attention from elsewhere>her friends. She tells how bad the situation is, money being disappeared from bank account, kids being neglected and so on.
Before you think I am blaming the husband, think again. It is the lack of understanding how a human being works, and how it gets energy through attention. If behaviours, attitudes change we are in trouble and can`t continue our old rigid ways and the flow of energy decreases.
You see, this is the problem with the world(and if you`d know it is NOT a problem at all on a higher level of understanding)that we want to help but how can we help if we don`t even recognize how we exist in the first place?
Uncalled help is the opposite of free will in spite whatever you say. As it is not an opinion but a law your lack of understanding or my faith in it will not change it.

Greyfoot

18AD wrote: »

This "leave it be" attitude is the greatest cowardice.

And your sentence in itself is not true. Cowardice is the opposite of bravery.
Cowardice is born from being afraid to do or say something.
Therefore fear is what gives way to cowardice.
And the opposite word or feeling of fear and cowardice is bravery my friend.

18AD

Greyfoot wrote: »

Uncalled help is the opposite of free will in spite whatever you say.

Again, help is not coercion. What is a fact, as of the OP, is that people are concerned for this man.

I totally agree that they should gain a greater insight into what it is he is doing, which may in fact be beneficial.

It is also a fact, however, that some people pedal spiritualism in order to earn a quick (enormous) buck. And it may be helpful to explore these other possibilities.

Anyhow, this tangent between us (I believe) bears little help for the OP. I hope this small exchange has bore some fruit. Adieu!

Greyfoot

18AD wrote: »

Again, help is not coercion. What is a fact, as of the OP, is that people are concerned for this man.

I totally agree that they should gain a greater insight into what it is he is doing, which may in fact be beneficial.

It is also a fact, however, that some people pedal spiritualism in order to earn a quick (enormous) buck. And it may be helpful to explore these other possibilities.

Live and let live. A fact indeed that some ask for money then give something in return. You know it should be the other way around. Give something and accept (or DON`T) offerings, be it money or material possessings.

They are concerned because there is lack of understanding on how they exist. If they only see what they want to see then help will be coercion.

Recognizing help calls for a trained mind indeed.

And here comes the best advice for the OP, or for anyone concerned about something in their life> Ask yourself what to do, listen to the voice within, listen to your heart and the answer will be there.Intuition and first thoughts are the key to success. Let us look inside and upwards instead of looking outside and downwards.

EDIT> Indeed, but you didn`t think he was the only one here for help, in fact for real help did you? I thank your words and will reflect on them.

wyndham

OP, you need to contact an organisation called Dialogue Ireland. Veritas are the publishing arm of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Dialogue were based in the same offices on Lower Abbey St, but I don't know if this is still the case.
Mike Garde of DI is the foremose expert on cults in this country.

http://www.dialogueireland.org/

wayoutwest

greyfoot - whats wrong with spiritual teachers charging money for their services? If I did some building work for someone,then I would like it if I were reasonably rewarded for my talent. If I then spent that money on,say,a weekend rieki course [rather than on beer],then I can't that being a problem.
Yeah- everyones' got the right to freewill,including the man's wife and the o.p who care about him. If my son started sneaking off to buy heroin-that would.I suppose be his freewill[at first].It would also be my right to exersise my freewill,and make sure that his dealers never dealt anything again.
I think that is pointless continuing this thread unless we have more info on the 'cult' and what its effects are on this man.

panda100

I don't want to hijack the op's thread, but I am in a very similar situation at the moment.

I have a friend who is currently being financially and emotionally abused by a group. At the beginning it seemed quite benign. My friend was going through a difficult time and this group helped her to personally reflect, and I presumed it was positive.
However, 6 years later she is still attending the workshops regularly and her emotional state has detoriated rapidly. She is a former shadow of who she used to be and cries constantly. They are also financially abusing her, as she pays €300 for weekend retreats with them. I helped her with her finances at Christmas as she asked for some help, and she is easily spending €700 a month on workshops and private tuition with her 'educator'. This is despite the fact that she can't pay her mortgage or loans.

Another friend of ours did some research into them, and this particular cult seem be a part of the religious right in the US. She went to a senior priest in the Dublin diocese's to ask him for some advice, as they seem to be using scripture and warping it to their own agenda. The priest couldn't really say anything as they group aren't doing anything wrong, and lets face it the RC church has swindled money and made people live in fear for centuries! i don't think Veritas will be any help to the op or myself!

I have no problem naming the group, just in case anyone has heared of them or has any information.This is their website: http://www.prhireland.ie/

I don't know how to approach this with my friend, as she feels that no one is supporting her. We are all drained from listening and helping her, but we all know this prh is the root cause of her problem. I broached it once that they seem to be costing her a lot of money, and she got extremely distressed and angry at me for even suggesting that they were a problem. What to do??

mark renton

Are you sure he is in a cult - sounds like he was in the bookies over cheltenham week

wayoutwest

panda100 - Are you sure that your friend is spending E8000 a year on this organisation?...that adds up to E48000 if she's paying that over the last six years!!!
I've never heard of PRF,so can;t really comment .After googling PRF,apart from one case,involving a nun and nakedness in canada-there does'nt seem to be any other negative feedback.They seem to donate money to disaster zones like New Orleans and Haiti.
PRF Ireland say that they are non-profit making are a registered charity.
Your freind has been recieving tuition from them for many years now -is she aiming to become an 'educator' herself?.You said that she is constantly crying -Have you asked her what she is upset about?[ apart from making herself miserably skint].

raul2010

Sorry for the slow reply here. Greyfoot, we are not looking for a debate about who is right or wrong. We are looking for help for him and his family. Perhaps it is in the wrong forum so mods please feel to redirect.

The information we received from okiss was very useful providing us with a starting point and that was the intention of starting this thread. If there are additional groups that people know of that we can contact, please send them on.


Just some more information for those following this thread. We don't have much details on this "cult" as he is very reluctant to provide much information. He is medidating around the clock now, using some form of spells/prayers to protect him from evil and spending a lot of money on these teachings (we don't really know how much). The kids are being neglected in that they are not being brought to school some days, being ignored while he is meditating etc. His wife is being mistreated in that he is spending all their limited savings without her consent and is abnormally happy in himself (not worried about paying bills or if their electricity is cut off etc.). He was previously "borrowing" money from friends and family and never paying it back. He is a completely different person to two years ago so it's not that he is just a bad man. I have known him all my life. The kids were always first with him and he would never ever borrow money without the intention of paying it back. He has distanced himself from his previous friends too. You can say "live and let live" but we genuinely care for him and his family. We have no problem with whatever religion etc he wants to practice but just want to ensure it is not to the detriment of him, his wife and his kids.

Red21

raul2010 wrote: »

He is a completely different person to two years ago so it's not that he is just a bad man .

I thought it all started a year ago when he met some people at a convention .
You say you don't have a lot of details, do you have a name?

raul2010

Red21 wrote: »

I thought it all started a year ago when he met some people at a convention .
You say you don't have a lot of details, do you have a name?

It did start just over a year ago so that's why I said he was a different person 2 years ago. I suppose I could have said 15 months ago or whatever it was. I don't have the organisation name unfortunately. He just refers to his "workgroup" or "teachings".

Oryx

Thread moved to Personal Issues. Please note a different charter and rules apply here.

KyussBishop

The actions of this cult, if he is being manipulated in the way it sounds, are totally illegal and it seems important to me not just to help this guy, but also find out more about this cult and go to the Gardai, because there are probably many more people getting emotionally and financially abused.

I don't know the legalities of this, but would you consider getting a private investigator to follow him and try and find out more about this group?

If you find out where it is he is going, they could be confronted personally (don't know how wise that would be mind), and the Gardai could be notified and (hopefully) investigate.


I think a bigger picture importance here is spreading awareness about this cult to the right authorities, and (in case the Gardai don't do anything) perhaps even trying to get it written about in newspapers and spreading awareness of it here even.

If I had information or details on such a cult myself, and knew they were abusing people like that, I'd go to no ends to try and out them.

Taltos

As Oryx pointed out the rules of PI will apply from this point onwards.
Any posts not directly addressing the advice the OP has requested may result in warnings/infractions and/or bans.

As per our charter muppetry is a bannable offense. Discussion/debates here are also not welcome. Please keep your advice civil and constructive to the OP.

Finally, failure to read our rules is not accepted as an excuse.

Thanks.
Taltos

Stavro Mueller

wyndham wrote: »

OP, you need to contact an organisation called Dialogue Ireland. Veritas are the publishing arm of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Dialogue were based in the same offices on Lower Abbey St, but I don't know if this is still the case.
Mike Garde of DI is the foremost expert on cults in this country.

http://www.dialogueireland.org/

I second this suggestion. I've heard this guy on the radio (and possibly TV) talking about cults and how to get people away from them.

raul2010

Thanks Wyndham and Cymbaline. I'll pass this onto his wife. Thanks again