Marathon realistic?

quad_red

Hi all,

A group of three of us have talked ourselves into aiming to run the marathon next October. None of us have ever run before like this and are of varying fitness.

Myself and the mrs had a bambino last year and I've really left my fitness go to pot. Have put on almost 1.5 stone which I am in the process of reversing. But the goal of a marathon has galvanised me. I'm 31 by the way.

Our intermediate goal is the 10k in the Phoenix Park in April.

I was able to run 3.5 three weeks ago. I can now run 6k consistently and be in good shape. My last two runs were 6k at an average speed of 9.94km/hr and 10.01km/hr. Planning to move up to 7k next week.

I am therefore confident that I'll be up to 10k range in time and should put a good show in.

But, a marathon distance is just completely outside my frame of reference so I find it hard to quantify how hard it is/will be.

Can anyone advise? Are we aiming too high? Should we aim for a half marathon instead?

Or is coach to marathon in 9 months a reasonable target?

Cheers,
Quad

zooming

Hi all,
I have been running 3 to 4 times per week over the past year mainly to facilitate weight loss. Im doing a 10k in June, and to date my longest run has been 8 miles (slowly)
My question is this..should I even consider beginning to train for a full marathon? Im nervous/scared/excited all at once, I wouldnt be hoping to break any land speed records but I would be aiming for a 5 hour finish. Should I abandon all hope for October this year? The Hal Higdon plan works on an 18 week timetable and I would expect to have a few weeks in reserve in case of cold/flu etc.
Advice?

Krusty_Clown

zooming wrote: »

should I even consider beginning to train for a full marathon?

You should begin to train for a half-marathon.

Krusty_Clown

10k -> 10 Mile -> 1/2 marathon -> Marathon.
Ideally, interjected with repeated loops, and training for and racing of shorter distances like 5km.

hardCopy

I started training at the end of last April and went on to finish my first Dublin City Marathon in October in 4:28. I probably could have gone faster but didn't have a great day.

That was coming from a two year break away from running with about 3 extra stones around my waist.

You could definitely do it. Have a look at Hal Higdon's training plans and work on getting your mileage up gradually over the coming months before starting a plan over the summer.

RayCun

(merged the threads because it's the same question)

Oisin11178

The less prep you have the harder it will be for you. Most people already have their mind made up before they post here. Ideally you should probably work your way up through the distances and maybe do a spring marathon next year. I dont see why you all cant finish this year but dont fool yourself into thinking it wont be very hard.

RayCun

Oisin11178 wrote: »

I dont see why you all cant finish this year but dont fool yourself into thinking it wont be very hard.

Most people could finish a marathon tomorrow, if they're okay with walking a lot. 10 minutes a km (to go back to the original post) is 420 minutes for the marathon - 7 hours. That would beat the cutoff time in Dublin.

Oisin11178

RayCun wrote: »

Most people could finish a marathon tomorrow, if they're okay with walking a lot. 10 minutes a km (to go back to the original post) is 420 minutes for the marathon - 7 hours. That would beat the cutoff time in Dublin.

Why would you quote me and rehash what i said. I said finish and thats what i meant just finish, whatever way possible. Most people dont run. All of the people that posted here have some running base with one having gone as far as 8 miles.

liamo123

quad_red wrote: »

Hi all,

A group of three of us have talked ourselves into aiming to run the marathon next October. None of us have ever run before like this and are of varying fitness.

Myself and the mrs had a bambino last year and I've really left my fitness go to pot. Have put on almost 1.5 stone which I am in the process of reversing. But the goal of a marathon has galvanised me. I'm 31 by the way.

Our intermediate goal is the 10k in the Phoenix Park in April.

I was able to run 3.5 three weeks ago. I can now run 6k consistently and be in good shape. My last two runs were 6k at an average speed of 9.94km/hr and 10.01km/hr. Planning to move up to 7k next week.

I am therefore confident that I'll be up to 10k range in time and should put a good show in.

But, a marathon distance is just completely outside my frame of reference so I find it hard to quantify how hard it is/will be.

Can anyone advise? Are we aiming too high? Should we aim for a half marathon instead?

Or is coach to marathon in 9 months a reasonable target?

Cheers,
Quad

zooming wrote: »

Hi all,
I have been running 3 to 4 times per week over the past year mainly to facilitate weight loss. Im doing a 10k in June, and to date my longest run has been 8 miles (slowly)
My question is this..should I even consider beginning to train for a full marathon? Im nervous/scared/excited all at once, I wouldnt be hoping to break any land speed records but I would be aiming for a 5 hour finish. Should I abandon all hope for October this year? The Hal Higdon plan works on an 18 week timetable and I would expect to have a few weeks in reserve in case of cold/flu etc.
Advice?

No problem whatsoever lads...Get out, enjoy the training and go 4 it...

A0

@quad_red: I would do a few 5 miles - 10 km and aim for the half marathon this year. I'd prefer to run it without pain, be sure to finish it and have an enjoyable experience rather than struggle as it's a lot of time on your feet and you say you've put on weight and didn't train last year. It's important to set achievable goals. Having said that, this is my opinion, a lot of people on this are going to reply "oh I know a friend who was overweight and ran a full marathon, training only 3-4 weeks before the race".

@zooming: it's a bit different, you have more training under the belt... see how it goes in the forthcoming months. Why don't you do a half in July and see how it goes?

rom

Anyone, well probably most people of average fitness can complete a marathon but being in pain for weeks latter and not being able to exercise and hence gaining weight, getting depressed because you can't train is not worth it when you have not trained enough or correctly. I ran DCM last year and even after a lot of training I was not happy with my result or how I felt afterwards. Its just a distance. Lynda Byrne who has the olympic A standard ran her first marathon to qualify for it. building up properly which I am now doing is lot more rewarding and is a saving hundreds on physio.

kilbrook

Go for it guys. I started running Jan last year, did the 10K in April, race series and the marathon. Look up Hal Higdon and follow the novice plan. Just take it slow.

hardCopy

kilbrook wrote: »

Go for it guys. I started running Jan last year, did the 10K in April, race series and the marathon. Look up Hal Higdon and follow the novice plan. Just take it slow.

The Race Series is a great idea. The build up of the race distances fits nicely with plans like Higdon and will help you gauge a goal pace before the marathon. You'll have plenty of time to sign up after the Half Marathon if you want to wait before committing.

TFBubendorfer

rom wrote: »

Anyone, well probably most people of average fitness can complete a marathon but being in pain for weeks latter and not being able to exercise and hence gaining weight, getting depressed because you can't train is not worth it when you have not trained enough or correctly.

That is a such an exaggeration! I ran my first marathon 4 months after starting running. The last few miles were painful alright, and I was sore for 3 days afterwards, but it was nothing like the picture you're painting.

While ideally you would have been running for a couple of years before attempting your first marathon, there are plenty of people who don't want to commit for such a long time.

Anyone who starts training for Dublin now has 7 months to get ready; that's plenty of time and I would encourage anyone who wants to do it.

meijin

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That is a such an exaggeration! I ran my first marathon 4 months after starting running. The last few miles were painful alright, and I was sore for 3 days afterwards, but it was nothing like the picture you're painting.

Fully agree. I ran my first marathon last year, 5 months after starting running, in under 4h. I just needed big challenge to focus on at that time - I signed up for the whole race series and DCM after managing to run my first whole 3 miles
Running for longer will of course make it easier.

scico rocks

I was always of the opinion that you should take it slowly. I was running for nearly eighteen months before I did a half marathon. I was playing soccer regularly so was in pretty good shape before i started.
Still, whatever works for different people. My two cents is just to get out there and give it a go. Theres a wonderful sense of accomplishment when you finish your own personal hurdles ie 1km, 5km and so on.

Oryx

The only issue with a short lead in time to your first marathon, imo, is the risk of injury. Youre asking your body to adapt in a short space of time, its not just about gaining the run fitness, its about allowing your body get used to the stresses of running long distance. Some people are lucky and are naturally disposed to running, and have good recovery, others dont find it so easy. So if you are taking it on (and I see no reason not to), train smart. And have the number of a physio handy in case niggles develop. Catch small issues before they become big ones.

opus

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Anyone who starts training for Dublin now has 7 months to get ready; that's plenty of time and I would encourage anyone who wants to do it.

That was my personal experience as well, went from no running (but with a good bit of aerobic fitness from the x-trainer in the gym) to the Cork city marathon in 7 months. Wish I could tell you the run was a piece of cake but I think it was the hardest marathon of the six I've done even though I've sped up a bit since.

Go for it but just be aware you have to be committed and willing to put in the miles.

pconn062

I ran my first marathon 4 months after starting running and it is the biggest regret of my running career (if you want to call it that), I trained well enough but simply did haven't the base in place to handle the distance, got injured at mile 17 and had to drop out at mile 21.
You only ever have one first marathon and it's a shame if it's a disappointment and you have a bad day. My advice would be to leave it for a year, build up a good base and set good 10k, 10 mile and half marathon times before going near the marathon, it deserves the respect and that extra year might mean you don't end up with a DNF or a bad time because you had to walk at mile 18 or 20.

ThePiedPiper

pconn062 wrote: »

I ran my first marathon 4 months after starting running and it is the biggest regret of my running career (if you want to call it that), I trained well enough but simply did haven't the base in place to handle the distance, got injured at mile 17 and had to drop out at mile 21.
You only ever have one first marathon and it's a shame if it's a disappointment and you have a bad day. My advice would be to leave it for a year, build up a good base and set good 10k, 10 mile and half marathon times before going near the marathon, it deserves the respect and that extra year might mean you don't end up with a DNF or a bad time because you had to walk at mile 18 or 20.

I'd echo what you have to say here to a point pconn. But the OP is talking about 7 months, not 4. We've seen over 100 examples in our own club of people going from little or no base to marathon completion in 5 months. My own first marathon came off 4 months of very irregular training and I did alright.

However, there are a lot of people for whom even 7 months could be too close. A couple of friends of mine were reasonably fit from GAA for years, started training for October marathons from 6 months out, and never made it past 15 and 17 miles in training due to injuries. They have since gone on to both complete marathons under 4 hours, taking a longer term view to it.

So, as pconn has hinted at, a lot of people are more suited to shorter distance and jumping into a marathon commitment is foolhardy. Set yourself shorter term goals. You can decide at a later date if you are suited to stepping up to the marathon distance. Keep your options open, but by all means, start upping your distances and maintain your training. Best of luck

pconn062

RunForestRun wrote: »

I'd echo what you have to say here to a point pconn. But the OP is talking about 7 months, not 4. We've seen over 100 examples in our own club of people going from little or no base to marathon completion in 5 months. My own first marathon came off 4 months of very irregular training and I did alright.

However, there are a lot of people for whom even 7 months could be too close. A couple of friends of mine were reasonably fit from GAA for years, started training for October marathons from 6 months out, and never made it past 15 and 17 miles in training due to injuries. They have since gone on to both complete marathons under 4 hours, taking a longer term view to it.

So, as pconn has hinted at, a lot of people are more suited to shorter distance and jumping into a marathon commitment is foolhardy. Set yourself shorter term goals. You can decide at a later date if you are suited to stepping up to the marathon distance. Keep your options open, but by all means, start upping your distances and maintain your training. Best of luck

Yeah I suppose that's true if it's a once in a lifetime marathon and you go from nothing to completing the marathon and you don't care about times or anything. But I suppose I'm thinking about people who want to be serious runners and will always have a DNF or a really slow time to their name that they can't change where as if they just wait a year or two and build a better base the marathon will go much better. As you know RFR, I have a lot of experience with these bad marathons!

RayCun

That's the thing, why do you want to do a marathon?
If its part of "becoming a runner" then there's no need to rush into it. Build up your runs, do some shorter races, enter the marathon when you think you can give it a good shot - whether that's sub-3, sub-4, or sub-5.
If you just want to "do a marathon", you can do one tomorrow. Walk a lot, jog slowly, whatever. You don't really need to train to just get around, so long as you don't care about your time. Walking for 7 hours is not fun, but you can do it.

ncmc

I’ve gotta say, I’m really nervous after reading this thread! I have set myself the goal of the DCM in October, I am following this training plan:

http://www.marathontraining.com/marathon/m_mile.html

I have been running on and off for a couple of years, but only doing 3-4 miles two or three times a week. I am starting right at the beginning at the plan, even though I could have realistically skipped the first few weeks. I have never run any long distances before and I am really scared after reading people’s experiences of running their first marathon with not enough training. I aimed for the marathon because it is ‘the big one’ and I really want that sense of achievement after (hopefully) finishing it. I have quit a lot of things in my life and I just want to be able to say “yes, I stuck something out to the bitter end, even when it got tough”. I am not worried about times or setting myself any particular speeds, I’d want to do it in less than 5 hours but that’s the extent of my goals! I don’t know what to think after reading this, I have already told some people I am thinking of doing it and would feel like such a flop if I changed my mind now.

PDCAT

ncmc wrote: »

I’ve gotta say, I’m really nervous after reading this thread! I have set myself the goal of the DCM in October, I am following this training plan:

http://www.marathontraining.com/marathon/m_mile.html

I have been running on and off for a couple of years, but only doing 3-4 miles two or three times a week. I am starting right at the beginning at the plan, even though I could have realistically skipped the first few weeks. I have never run any long distances before and I am really scared after reading people’s experiences of running their first marathon with not enough training. I aimed for the marathon because it is ‘the big one’ and I really want that sense of achievement after (hopefully) finishing it. I have quit a lot of things in my life and I just want to be able to say “yes, I stuck something out to the bitter end, even when it got tough”. I am not worried about times or setting myself any particular speeds, I’d want to do it in less than 5 hours but that’s the extent of my goals! I don’t know what to think after reading this, I have already told some people I am thinking of doing it and would feel like such a flop if I changed my mind now.

Don't worry, you have enough time to train and complete a marathon in 5 hours. There's over 7 months to the marathon. Follow the plan that your using, be careful with the pace's that your running in training (to avoid injury). Long run's are very important.....
Notice from the plan that your using that you have scheduled a 20miler, 21 miler and 23 miler as well as 18 miler. This seems excessive for your first marathon. Other's with more experience will give you better info.
I would think that two 20milers would be enough for your first marathon.
Again, don't worry. I completed my first Marathon in Dublin last October. Have to say, it's the thing i'm most proud of. All the training, was well worth it when i crossed that finishing line. Once you finish the first, you'll want to go again.

Also, just to add, there was a DCM Thread for Novices last year on this site. Have a read through this. It will answer any questions you have. There will be probably be another Novice tread starting up this year for 2012.

Oryx

ncmc wrote: »

I’ve gotta say, I’m really nervous after reading this thread! I have set myself the goal of the DCM in October... ...I have already told some people I am thinking of doing it and would feel like such a flop if I changed my mind now.

Then dont change your mind! A training plan builds you into it slowly, and makes it very doable. But as I mentioned earlier, pay attention to any signs of bother from your body as distances increase. Dont ignore any pains you get, get them checked out. Other than that its all about getting the miles done. Dont worry about missing one or two of your training runs, as long as you are getting the bulk of the work in. Life will always throw a spanner in the works now and again and youve got to roll with it. A few shorter races as preparation (like the marathon race series) are a very good way of getting used to the race scenario, and help you understand pacing (things like not shooting off too fast in the excitement of the start).

ncmc

Thanks so much for that reply PDCAT and Oryx, I appreciate that. This forum is a little scary for the newbie as there are such experienced runners here who are used to doing marathons for time rather than just flopping over the line which is the most I can hope for!

Interested in what you said about my training plan, I have been looking at Hal Higdon’s Novice 1 training plan:

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

And it seems a lot more gentle than mine, for a start he only has you running 4 times a week rather than 5 and he has a rest day the day before the long run, whereas mine has me running the day before the long run (albeit a short run). For someone like me, who really only wants to finish (although if I’m being totally honest, I would like to do it in 4 and ½ hours rather than 5 hours) would the Hal Higdon be more suitable?

PDCAT

ncmc wrote: »

Thanks so much for that reply PDCAT and Oryx, I appreciate that. This forum is a little scary for the newbie as there are such experienced runners here who are used to doing marathons for time rather than just flopping over the line which is the most I can hope for!

Interested in what you said about my training plan, I have been looking at Hal Higdon’s Novice 1 training plan:

http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

And it seems a lot more gentle than mine, for a start he only has you running 4 times a week rather than 5 and he has a rest day the day before the long run, whereas mine has me running the day before the long run (albeit a short run). For someone like me, who really only wants to finish (although if I’m being totally honest, I would like to do it in 4 and ½ hours rather than 5 hours) would the Hal Higdon be more suitable?

That's the Training Plan i used last year, along with a lot of other's here, doing their first marathon. It's perfect for a first timer. Just make sure you are watching your pacing. Don't run these too fast as you'll find them much harder than they are supposed to be and can lead to injury.

ncmc

PDCAT wrote: »

That's the Training Plan i used last year, along with a lot of other's here, doing their first marathon. It's perfect for a first timer. Just make sure you are watching your pacing. Don't run these too fast as you'll find them much harder than they are supposed to be and can lead to injury.

Thanks again PDCAT, the Hal Higdon seems a lot easier than the plan I was following and not as much of a massive time commitment. I am running at about a 8 minute mile at the moment, I presume it's ok to carry on at that pace? I haven't done any long runs yet, so I'm sure I'll be slower than that on the long runs.

One last question, what should I do until the time comes to follow that plan, just continue with 4-6 mile runs four times a week?

PDCAT

ncmc wrote: »

Thanks again PDCAT, the Hal Higdon seems a lot easier than the plan I was following and not as much of a massive time commitment. I am running at about a 8 minute mile at the moment, I presume it's ok to carry on at that pace? I haven't done any long runs yet, so I'm sure I'll be slower than that on the long runs.

One last question, what should I do until the time comes to follow that plan, just continue with 4-6 mile runs four times a week?

There's no problem as far as i can see, from continuing to run your 4/6 mile runs 4 times a week, until the plan starts and run them at your usual pace.
However, i think 8 minute per mile pace will be too fast to run when you start into the plan. For example, last year i planned to run a 4 hour marathon which is approx 9 minute per mile pace. On my Long run at the weekend, i ran these at 10 minute per mile pace. I ran all my other run's at 9.30/9.45 minute per mile pace except my Monday recovery run which i ran at about 10.30 minute per mile pace. Since you are planning to run a 4.30/5 hour marathon, you may have to re assess what pace's you are going to run when you start plan. When you start building your mileage up, your legs will certainly start to feel it and you may pick up an injury.

ncmc

Thanks PDCAT, i'm finding the short runs quite easy at the moment, so I find I am naturally going at that pace, I will certainly concentrate on slowing my pace when I get into the longer runs. I would like to aim for the 4 ½ hours, so I will concentrate on slowing to 9.30 min mile when I get into the longer runs. I really appreciate all your help!

vinny1313

I'd say it's possible, but will be hard work. Take it one step at a time and build up gradually. It's important not to over-do it. Do the 10k next month, if you can do 6k now you'll be fine. After that, I'd suggest working up to at least 15k in training, once you do that, you should be ready for a half, perhaps in June. If you get through that you could look at a 16 week programme leading up to marathon. Best of luck.

rom

Get a HR monitor and do all your training at low HR, how low? I don't know, someone else may be able to answer that. Example: For me that would be 145 but that is going on a max of 193. Everyone is different (even up to 30-40 beats which is huge) so you would need to get your max HR properly (and not by an online calculator) but with a fitness test or similar. Otherwise you will run too fast during training and get injured or not reach your goal. Example. I ran most of the time at 8min/mile last year. 10 mile time was about 82 mins for Mallow. Now I run most at the time (that's over 90%) at 9:30 or even 10 min per mile. I ran Ballycotton in under 72 mins and hope to much better it in Mallow next Monday. My goal last year was sub 4 in Dublin. Missed it by a mile, not because of ability but just because I trained too fast all the time. A HR monitor is a handy tool to measure the effort your taking. If you look at http://mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/site/calculator you will see for 4hrs then your long runs should be 9:40 or slower pace. On a side note: Brother has just taken up running(3 months). He runs 3 times a week to a total of 10 miles. No history of any sport at all. He ran a flat 5K last summer is about 27 mins. He runs all the time at sub 145 HR (never does tempo/speed work etc) . He did a 5K last weekend in 21:30 which is 6:55 per mile pace and a 5M in 37 mins 3 weeks ago which is 7:20 pace. Those are the only times he has ever ran under 8:30 per mile pace ever. I did one of these suggested training plan last year. I ran 95% of the suggested miles but all too fast. Don't be disappointed on race day. Get a HR monitor, use it and slow down. If not then you should be able to have a full conversation when you are running (yes this is just a tad faster than walking but in a few weeks you will start to jog and then run with little effort). But like me last year everyone told me the exact same thing but I knew better than them all. I was very wrong.

TFBubendorfer

rom wrote: »

Get a HR monitor and do all your training at under 150 HR for the first 2 months and then the rest at under 145 HR.

Do you know the heart rates of the person you are advising? If not then these figures are completely out of whack.

I have a friend who is roughly the same age as me and runs pretty much the same times in races.

His training and racing heart rates (and presumably his max HR) are consistently about 20 beats below mine. If we were training or races according to absolute heart rate values, like you seem to be recommending, at least one of us would be doing something fundamentally wrong.

To the OP, I would either find a dedicated and reputable resource on the internet or buy a book on marathon training and follow the guidelines in there. There are some good ones around, e.g by Hal Higdon or Pete Pfitzinger, but there are plenty more.

The advice you will get here on boards will always be conflicting, that's just the nature of a forum. It's better to follow one single source, and follow it consistently.

menoscemo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Do you know the heart rates of the person you are advising? If not then these figures are completely out of whack.

I have a friend who is roughly the same age as me and runs pretty much the same times in races.

+1 I know a guy same age as me whose max is 165. I he were to do all his training at 145-150 he'd be completely burnt out.

ocnoc

menoscemo wrote: »

+1 I know a guy same age as me whose max is 165.

Ahhh sure, he probably wasn't trying

rom

Never knew there was such a variance in Max HR.

Corrected my comments due to comments above.

A little knowledge is a bad thing

zooming

Isnt it all so confusing? Fartlek, Tempo, Intervals, Heart Rates...wow. I downloaded the Hal Higdon App on my iphone and it seems pretty realistic. At the moment Im running 3 times per week, short distances (3-4 miles) Tuesdays and Wednesdays and a longer run on Sunday, last Sunday I did 9 miles which Im over the moon about!! Im slow (11.20 min miles) Cant seem to get faster, but am just slowly building up my distances and trying to stay injury free (touch wood) Im doing my first 10k on the Bank holiday Monday in Dublin and am very nervous about it, Im going to continue my training and if all is going well I will try Dublin, if not I have submitted a ballot for VLM LONDON 2013, so fingers crossed. Its an achievement for me as Im not a natural built runner, and I primarily started running to lose weight. But as a friend once said...slow and steady wins the race! Well I wont win but crossing the line 26.1 miles after starting will be amazing (I would LOVE to do it in 4 hours 59 mins ha)

TFBubendorfer

zooming wrote: »

Well I wont win but crossing the line 26.1 miles after starting will be amazing (I would LOVE to do it in 4 hours 59 mins ha)

It's 26.2 miles

zooming

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It's 26.2 miles

HA!! How could I forget??