Irish Veterans of WWI project

pinkypinky

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0313/1224313204228.html#.T16582xXzoE.twitter

http://www.thereturnedww1.com/

Thoughts?

I have a couple of ancestors who luckily survived (or else I would not be here!)

My main gripe is that they want me to post something physically. Why can't I send them an email? :mad:

genie

I have a few relatives who survived, too, and it is a bit odd that the details can't be sent by e-mail. :rolleyes:

Jellybaby1

Looks a wee bit odd. A list like this would be of interest to me but at the back of my mind am wondering are they going to 'sell' the info online like Ancestry etc., having received the information freely from the public. Nice little earner, however I could also be very wrong of course. Any way of verifying? I'll keep my fingers crossed that this is legit and the information will be made freely available.

Actually, just noticed a P.O. number address - not good. Voluntary groups should not be faceless or nameless,
the site also states "hereturnedww1.com reserves the right to deal on an unrestricted basis with any information or data placed upon the site by you, as that placement is not of a proprietary nature. Thereturnedww1.com may edit, copy, publish, and distribute any information or data posted to the site without your consent"

Looks like they get your information for nothing and then get full rights over it. Be wary.

pinkypinky

Oh I don't like that!

I noticed there were very few names mentioned on the site but I actually took it to be an amateur setup, rather than nefarious.

Jellybaby1

Maybe they will come on here and clear it up for us.

pinkypinky

They do actually have an email on their site.

Does anyone want to volunteer to email them and ask?

CeannRua

I'll email them if people want to formulate questions. My great-grandfather was in the Australian Navy during WW1 but it doesn't look like he is eligible for inclusion. In principle, this sounds like a good project to me but if relying on public contributions rather than a collection of records, I don't know how it can be comprehensive.

At least there is a real person's name in the Irish Times and I can understand why they would use a PO Box number rather than personal postal address. When you do a domain lookup for the url, the registrant name is 'Global Domain Privacy' rather than real person. I have no idea if this is common - anyone know? It's maybe not great from a transparency point of view though? I guess the thing with publishing info on the web is that anyone can lift it, copyright protections and all that aside... My 'thing' with voluntary groups is that all is well until there's a falling out and then you wonder what happens to the database. It would be interesting to know how the voluntary group is managed.

In fairness, I think they have to say they have the right to copy, edit etc the data received, otherwise they wouldn't be able to use it. They probably could have sought more detailed info eg photo and definitely a more detailed address than just the county. Sorry - very long post.

pinkypinky

Good points, CeannRua.

My questions are:

Why can the public not submit details by email?

Who are the principle members of the voluntary group? Sub-question: are they a legal group (limited company, charity, club, etc)

Do they intend to share the database with a permanent organisation like the National Archives/Library?

genie

Do they intend to profit from the database i.e. sell the information? If so, to whom?

Jellybaby1

Are they connected to, or involved with, any other genealogical/history websites or groups or professional companies?

CeannRua

I'll hold off emailing until next week in case anyone else wants to tack on a question. Kind of related, someone from the NLI was on the Sean Moncrieff Show today. They're running a roadshow next week where members of the public can bring in items relating to WW1 eg photos, letters, artefacts. They will scan or photograph the item and put it on a website. There is more info here
http://www.nli.ie/en/list/latest-news.aspx?article=5adb5294-2d4a-46f1-b62e-91b9081cc58d
She did say as well that anyone who can't make it next week would be able to upload themselves afterwards.

shanew

[removed - just spotted that CeannRua posted the same details]

There was an item on the 6-1 news also - might be on RTE Player.



Shane

Step23

I have to admit the site looks amateurish.

I can't see a completed list being put together as it would be a monumental task. I would also be weary of the information in the list itself, any information would need to be checked for its accuracy as not everyone will remember what unit their great grandad etc served in or they may get it mixed up.

CeannRua

Step23 wrote: »

I have to admit the site looks amateurish.

I can't see a completed list being put together as it would be a monumental task. I would also be weary of the information in the list itself, any information would need to be checked for its accuracy as not everyone will remember what unit their great grandad etc served in or they may get it mixed up.

I'd assume that if they're serious about the project they would also be researching and would check information they get in against service records. I don't know a lot about service records but think a large number of British WWI service records were destroyed in a WWII bombing. Info on medal cards is less detailed I think so this would be another obstacle unless there are other sources?

Just had another look at the website and they've removed the reference to having to contact them by post. There is now an email contact form. It also says that they will take details of Irish people who were in the US Army. I don't remember reading this the other day and it doesn't say it in the Irish Times article. Is this new?

Step23

CeannRua wrote: »

I'd assume that if they're serious about the project they would also be researching and would check information they get in against service records. I don't know a lot about service records but think a large number of British WWI service records were destroyed in a WWII bombing. Info on medal cards is less detailed I think so this would be another obstacle unless there are other sources?

Just had another look at the website and they've removed the reference to having to contact them by post. There is now an email contact form. It also says that they will take details of Irish people who were in the US Army. I don't remember reading this the other day and it doesn't say it in the Irish Times article. Is this new?

I do indeed hope the person/people doing this check the info as it comes in otherwise the information will be unreliable.

Indeed around 2/3 of all WW1 were destroyed during WW2 so this will make life harder. Medal index cards can be helpful, but they generally don't have addresses for other ranks. Officers had to apply for their medals so often an address is given on the back of the card.

I can certainly see one of the major problems will be finding out if the a soldier is Irish or not. We have to remember not everyone in an Irish regiment was Irish and not everyone in an English regiment was English.

I do wish the person/people compiling the list the best of luck, however being realistic I don't see a completed list being done for 2014.

pinkypinky

I didn't see the bit about the US army before either. It still says post on the homepage but the contact page has been updated to have a contact form. Maybe they're reading this thread but until there's more transparency, I won't be sending them my ancestors' details.

CeannRua

pinkypinky wrote: »

I didn't see the bit about the US army before either. It still says post on the homepage but the contact page has been updated to have a contact form. Maybe they're reading this thread but until there's more transparency, I won't be sending them my ancestors' details.

My reading of the website is that you can now either email or post the service details. I'll ask when I email them though. I think previously it said you must post them and think they had this bit of text in bold but now it says you can post details to the addresss. A bit of ambivalence maybe, I don't know.

mari2222

I wonder how long they had to "return home" for - ? I have a relative who served but made his "home" in England.

CeannRua

I emailed the site this morning. My email is below for reference. As you will see, I suggested they might like to open a Boards account and respond direct to queries (I didn't want to be responsible for misinterpreting anything in the response). I got a reply and they say they will open a Boards account in the next few days and reply here. Also, the reply said that it is early days and they will take suggestions on board.

Email sent:
Hi, I have some questions about your project and wonder if you might be able to answer them. I post sometimes on the Genealogy forum on www.boards.ie and there is a thread there at the moment discussing your project. I offered to email on behalf of a couple of users with some questions. There is support there for your project but I guess because the project is new and as people would be sending on information, both their own contact information and data on ancestors, they have some questions.
The questions below are as suggested as well as a few of my own. It would be the intention either to reproduce any reply on www.boards.ie or quote from it. Are you amenable to this? Or perhaps you would like to post replies yourselves on Boards. Thanks in advance.
Questions:
1. Can email rather than post be used to send on service details? If not, why not?
2. Who are the principal members of the voluntary group? Has the group been legally established e.g. limited company, charity, club etc?
3. Do you intend to share the database with a permanent organisation e.g. National Archives / Library?
4. Does the voluntary group intend to profit from the information i.e. sell it? If so, to whom?
5. Is the voluntary group connected to, or involved with, any other genealogical/history websites or groups or professional companies?
6. Will you be checking information you receive against service records and other material?
7. In relation to contact information for members of the public who send in information - who will have access to it and for how long will you keep it?
8. Have you any plans to extend the project to include the details of Irish people who served in Australian or other forces beyond what is stated on your website? Do members of the Royal Naval Reserve qualify for inclusion?
9. With regard to ‘county,’ should this be county of origin, county in which the person resided at the time of WWI, after WWI etc?
10. How long did someone have to ‘return home’ for to be eligible for inclusion? One user on Boards says that their relative served but made his ‘home’ in England.