Garda and club lands

Tackleberry.

I was contacted today by the FO and was asked today about the clubs lands where they where and the like, I asked the reson for these details and was told that we our club has had someone join with a colored past but is okay now,but that the super wanted to know the land he was shooting within the club.
I have contacted our chairman to discuss and we are unhappy to give out this information as we think it's going to come back at us at some point
What ye think?

Sparks

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I have contacted our chairman to discuss and we are unhappy to give out this information as we think it's going to come back at us at some point
What ye think?

I think ye might not like it, but if a section 8 order comes in the door, you're legally required to hand over the data...

kildare.17hmr

If he has permission to shoot where he is shooting be it club land or private AND they gave him a licence i dont see why they need more info

kildare.17hmr

Whats a section 8 order?

deeksofdoom

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I was contacted today by the FO and was asked today about the clubs lands where they where and the like, I asked the reson for these details and was told that we our club has had someone join with a colored past but is okay now,but that the super wanted to know the land he was shooting within the club.
I have contacted our chairman to discuss and we are unhappy to give out this information as we think it's going to come back at us at some point
What ye think?

Sur how are ye supposed to know where he is shooting it could be anywhere, he's not tied down to clubland if he has permission elsewhere. Tell the Gardai to get in touch with the member himself and clarify it with them. I'm sure they have his number on file somewhere.

One shot on kill

Why didn't he ring the chairman himself.

Don't think there is a major deal in knowing the clubs land I don't see why not tell him but he should contact the chairman himself.

Also if a person has a coloured past it's obviously not that serious if the member has a license or is considering getting one.

As regards the FO even mentioning this member is completely inappropriate.

Don't let the club piss the FO off as it could have back LaCie on club and members going fire license's , mods , scopes, extra ammo etc

The Big Fella

He still needs written permission off the farmer.

kildare.17hmr

The Big Fella wrote: »

He still needs written permission off the farmer.

Only if using that permission to get a licence, verbal permission is all you need to shoot somewhere

clivej

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Only if using that permission to get a licence, verbal permission is all you need to shoot somewhere

the verbal may be good enough to shoot with but its not good enough to get a license, the FO will need to see a written and signed letter of consent to shoot over the land

Tackleberry.

One shot on kill wrote: »

Why didn't he ring the chairman himself.

Don't think there is a major deal in knowing the clubs land I don't see why not tell him but he should contact the chairman himself.

Also if a person has a coloured past it's obviously not that serious if the member has a license or is considering getting one.

I am the club secretary so contact is made to me from time to about members joining etc.
As for the club lands there is little of it, as the housing estates took over much of it, we border other clubs and have a river to our back, the bigger the town got the more members joined but the lands got less and less, the club is near 40 years old but most of the shooting is foreshore and it that can't be used to grant Fac's.
Don't know who the member is nor his past.

kildare.17hmr

clivej wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Only if using that permission to get a licence, verbal permission is all you need to shoot somewhere

the verbal may be good enough to shoot with but its not good enough to get a license, the FO will need to see a written and signed letter of consent to shoot over the land

Thats what im sayin clive

Rew

How would telling him come back on you? I don't understand the issue if everything is above board?

Sparks

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Whats a section 8 order?

To quote Devore:

DeVore wrote: »

a Section 8 which is a Garda request for private details (we occasionally get them from the Gardai into Boards when they want to know the IP/Email behind an account... its effectively a disclosure order).

More details here. But basicly, if you have a record of something (say, someone's home address if you're the secretary of the club), and the Gardai want it, you get a section 8 order compelling you to hand it over (assuming, that is, you don't just hand it over when asked).

Sparks

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I am the club secretary ... Don't know who the member is

Er, what now? Hang on a minute Tack, how does someone join the club without you knowing even that they've joined? I know you're not covered by the Clubs SI, but still - if someone gets a licence off being in the club, you ought to have a list of names at least; otherwise what happens when the Gardai call you up to check if you've ever heard of a guy who's applying for a licence with your gun club down as his land permission?

Tackleberry.

Sparks wrote: »

Er, what now? Hang on a minute Tack, how does someone join the club without you knowing even that they've joined? I know you're not covered by the Clubs SI, but still - if someone gets a licence off being in the club, you ought to have a list of names at least; otherwise what happens when the Gardai call you up to check if you've ever heard of a guy who's applying for a licence with your gun club down as his land permission?

I know it looks add but. It's being months since someone joined our club a few joined together but the gards are saying that they have a issue with someone in the club I just don't know who it is and they would not say either, the gards do ring up asking if a lads is joining up from time to time but the gap between now and when the last few lads joined does now allow me to think ya its such a lad.
I do know everyone in the club and keep all the details I have always answered them in the past and they always provided names this seems a little different as I think the lad got his Fac but the gards are pissed for some reason, I think that why I'm not getting a name.

Sparks

Ah, right, sorry - I thought they'd given you the name of the club member.

Spunk84

Why would the gards need u to give them info when they are paid to investigate themselves LOL typical Ireland , all you can so is give the club land wereabouts and that's about that . That's a funny one indeed ,if he or she has a checkered past why was he given a firearm in the first place ? Can't you ask if the individual did something that would blacken the clubs name ?

Rew

Spunk84 wrote: »

Why would the gards need u to give them info when they are paid to investigate themselves LOL typical Ireland

What do you think there doing by ringing the club...? :rolleyes:

deeksofdoom

Rew wrote: »

What do you think there doing by ringing the club...? :rolleyes:

Well its a bit to late if they've already issued him a licence.

Rew

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Well its a bit to late if they've already issued him a licence.

Why? Do you think they cant take a license back off someone?

Spunk84

Rew wrote: »

What do you think there doing by ringing the club...? :rolleyes:

let me see;) they have people whos only job for the "government/Garda" is to vet people:eek: you would think that they could do their job instead of ringing up on a hunch . This is why imo that finger print screenings should be mandatory on firearm licenses!

Rew wrote: »

Why? Do you think they cant take a license back off someone?

They would look more silly than they already do after giving a person a firearms licence and then take it back because they got it wrong:rolleyes:

Rew

Spunk84 wrote: »

let me see;) they have people whos only job for the "government/Garda" is to vet people:eek: you would think that they could do their job instead of ringing up on a hunch . This is why imo that finger print screenings should be mandatory on firearm licenses!

Whats has this to do with vetting? the query is that he is shooting within his rights not that he shouldn't have got a gun in the first place.

Im unsure as to what you think investigating is. It dosent work like it does on TV where they look it all up on a computer or sit in a car with a telephoto lens. Investigating involves picking up the phone or some other means of talking to people to find out what they need to know.

They would look more silly than they already do after giving a person a firearms licence and then take it back because they got it wrong:rolleyes:

Your assuming they got it wrong. They were satisfied to give him the licence its keeping it that I would suspect is in question here.

I hope to god that "not looking silly" isn't high in the agenda for deciding if someone should get/keep their license.

Tackleberry.

Rew wrote: »

How would telling him come back on you? I don't understand the issue if everything is above board?

Just as we as a hunting club are running out of land, we have to wonder when is to little land not enough land to have a club of nearly 50 members

Rew

Tackleberry. wrote: »

Just as we as a hunting club are running out of land, we have to wonder when is to little land not enough land to have a club of nearly 50 members

Thats a discussion you should have with them and not try hide it. Id imagine at this stage he is going to get very suspicious if you refuse to answer, if he isn't already.

J. Ramone

If this recent member hasn't been up front about their past when applying for club membership, I would be a little concerned if I were in your shoes. You could voice this concern to the Garda in confidence to see if he/she will enlighten you further.

Unwanted Garda scrutiny is something any club can do without and this member is bringing it on your club. As mentioned it wouldn't be helpful for club members applying for licences if the clubs reputation isn't good with your local cops.

I can only assume that this individual was issued a licence on the basis that the Guards reckoned he would successfully appeal a refusal. I'm not sure if that would rule out a past involving violent crime but I'm thinking (or hoping) such a past is not likely. They are obviously unhappy now that he has a licence.

Maybe the member is being unfairly treated by the Gardai but I'm sure you would like to have more information to make that judgement.

As club membership is used by many club members to satisfy the permission requirement for licences, I can't see any other option than to be upfront in replying to the request whether they threaten a section 8 or not.

Rew

Section 8 doesn't apply in this case I reckon. There asking about the club lands not personal information.

Tackleberry.

Rew wrote: »

Section 8 doesn't apply in this case I reckon. There asking about the club lands not personal information.

Well that was my first taught that the issues with this someone was a smoke screen to find out more about club lands as they usually had no problem in giving a name in the past.

Rew

Tackleberry. wrote: »

Well that was my first taught that the issues with this someone was a smoke screen to find out more about club lands as they usually had no problem in giving a name in the past.

Hard to know but it is a possibility, I would have thought they would be more direct about it though so I wouldn't rule out it being what they said it was about.

I think you will have to address the lands issue though. Super might start refusing licences or pulling them if he thinks your trying to pull the wool over his eyes. Maybe cap membership and operate a waiting list?