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Act Of Valour and other recruitment films

  • 12-03-2012 4:58am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭


    Okay, this isn't even released this side of the pond yet until the 23rd I believe... so It's obviously hard for people to judge whether or not it's intended to promote recruitment into the Army and the Navy Seals.

    First of all, an Ex-Navy Seal did see the film and documented his likes/dislikes here

    Pay attention to his final comment on what he hopes the film will accomplish.
    I also hope that it results in more of the RIGHT kind of men going to their recruiters and saying: “I want to join the Navy to be a Navy SWCC,” or “I want to join the Navy to be a Navy SEAL.”

    These quotes in bold got me thinking that this film was primarily intended for recruitment into the military...( I realise it's not illegal, now go back and read the Ex-Navy Seals dislikes ;) )

    Of course, It wouldn't be much of a conspiracy theory just to name 1 film and a couple of quotes by an Ex-Navy Seal so I did a little searching on this and came up with a few more notable titles.

    Top Gun (Fighting Russians)
    The Delta Force (Fighting Terrorist Hijackers and Persians)
    The Delta Force 2 (Fighting druglords in Colombia)
    Black Hawk Down (Fighting Somalians)

    Also rumoured to be in the development phase is 'Top Gun 2'

    What these type of films do is reinvigorate and mobilize a whole new generation of people willing to go out to foreign countries with the belief they're killing people to protect their own country.

    It's probably a big subject and I'm not doing it justice here but do you think Hollywood and the Pentagon work together to promote recruitment into the military using high-budget films?

    If so, what other titles would you consider propaganda films?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,732 ✭✭✭weisses


    Stripes .... :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭geeman


    Is that not more of a comedy like Kellys Heros? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭geeman


    I'm not disputing the comedic element of the films I mentioned.. I had a good laugh at the silliness of them all but they're intended to drive recruitment, atleast I would think so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,732 ✭✭✭weisses


    geeman wrote: »
    Is that not more of a comedy like Kellys Heros? :confused:

    Was very funny

    What a shock it was on my first day in the barracks :p

    A lot of tv shows are even screened by the army and when approved (positive spin) use of Army equipment and or footage is allowed


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Transformers 1 is another big recruitment film.. military provided a lot of support and hardware for the film - whats the conspiracy though?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Most of these movies are propaganda. Even the movies about Vietnam are mostly "we should have won" or "poor veterans" claptrap.

    Apocalypse Now was a masterpiece and if you watch it again today you'll see that very little has changed in the way occupation forces conduct themselves. So in that respect it's excellent.

    The rest of them however are ridiculous.

    All these movies are made to portray American forces as "good" and that atrocities and war crimes are few and far between (e.g. rape scenes in Platoon, strafing scenes in Full Metal Jacket).

    Movies that don't show the inherent "goodness" of American troops like "In the Valley of Elah" or "Redacted" get precious little exposure at the box office and rarely make it to TV.

    It's all a formula and certainly while turning a profit at the box office is priority number it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you'll get more advertising time and less negative criticism if your movie is pro-war, over-glamourised bullcrap.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭geeman


    I liked Apocalypse Now and Hamburger Hill out of all the Vietnam films released and I agree most of them glorify or trivialise putting poor human beings through immeasurable suffering.

    Full Metal Jacket I would say attempts to make the Vietnam war look like fun and I've even heard people quote it constantly as being "a funny film"

    I think when most western people see humans of dark skin suffering, it doesn't upset them as much as seeing a white person and maybe these Hollywood films are partly responsible for that.

    Can you imagine how "funny" these films would be if the protagonists were attacking Jews?

    Wouldn't it be funny to see a computer game released that reenacts putting Jews in Gas Chambers? No, of course not...but it's acceptable to release a computer game which demonizes Persians or Arabs...perfectly acceptable to pretend killing them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    geeman wrote: »
    I liked Apocalypse Now and Hamburger Hill out of all the Vietnam films released and I agree most of them glorify or trivialise putting poor human beings through immeasurable suffering.

    Pretty much all the biggest or best known US-made films about the Vietnam conflict are anti-war in nature.
    Full Metal Jacket I would say attempts to make the Vietnam war look like fun and I've even heard people quote it constantly as being "a funny film"

    Full Metal Jacket is an anti-war film.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭geeman


    It depends on who you talk to I think...

    Look at the comments for the following FMJ clip



    Despite the gunner obviously being a retard, most of the comments would suggest he's "funny"

    There are probably no shortage of these idiots in the army, that's for sure.

    One comment -> 238 water buffalo disliked this video


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    Top Gun was on film four last night, I think it might have been both a recruitment drive and a subtle push to repeal the 'don't ask-dont tell rule for the navy


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    geeman wrote: »
    Full Metal Jacket I would say attempts to make the Vietnam war look like fun and I've even heard people quote it constantly as being "a funny film"

    You and I have watched very different versions of that film.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Pretty much all the biggest or best known US-made films about the Vietnam conflict are anti-war in nature.



    Full Metal Jacket is an anti-war film.

    They may be very subtly anti-war but that message is lost on the vast majority of retards who think that the bootcamp scenes in FMJ were funny and the village invasion scene in Apocalypse Now was "so cool".

    These are the same idiots who think that Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" is some kind of patriotic anthem when in fact it's a scathing criticism of life in the US during the Reagan Years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭geeman


    You and I have watched very different versions of that film.

    Didn't seem to do a great job of stopping "wars", didn't stop kids joining the army...
    Most of the clips I found on youtube are the funny scenes/dialogue.

    So you've never heard someone say "me love you long time" ?

    I know people that recite line for line the dialogue in these films and they're the same muppets who joined the army and reserves because they thought it was cool...they're just idiots, easily persuaded by the Hollywood media.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    geeman wrote: »
    Didn't seem to do a great job of stopping "wars", didn't stop kids joining the army...

    Funnily enough i don't think that's a reasonable expectation of a film. After all if a director is making an actual film and not simply a piece of propaganda then there has to be room for the audience to interpret it as they see fit.


    geeman wrote: »
    Most of the clips I found on youtube are the funny scenes/dialogue.
    So you've never heard someone say "me love you long time" ?

    And? Therefore? So?
    FMJ is eminently quotable and has very dark humour running through it, this shouldn't be taken as the movie "make[ing] the Vietnam war look like fun".

    Not when you consider things like what happened to Private Pile (the first half of the movie is dedicated, in my opinion, to what can be the dehumanising effects of such brutal basic training) or the sniper attack from the second half.
    Or how these are essentially kids being sent to into a situation they don't fully understand for reasons they don't understand.

    geeman wrote: »
    I know people that recite line for line the dialogue in these films and they're the same muppets who joined the army and reserves because they thought it was cool...they're just idiots, easily persuaded by the Hollywood media.

    Well, good to see this kind of snobbery isn't limited to the film forum.

    One of the great things about films and other kinds of creative media if that two people can look at the same piece and take different things away from it. Some people will see Full Metal Jacket as an action film, and some will see it as an anti-war statement.
    You seem to have a problem with allowing that kind of thing to exist, it is possible to not take an anti-war message away from Full Metal Jacket and therefore it's unequivocally not an anti-war film.
    The standards you're setting and unambiguity your demanding are a lot closer to the propaganda your decrying than i think you realise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭geeman


    Snobbery? I'm not the one starting perpetual wars to make a profit, buddy.
    The men who cheer lead wars are the last people you'll see on the frontline of any battle, they make the least amount of sacrifice of all in society and it's people like you that jump to their defense just to amuse yourself.

    How did we get here? knock yourself out


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Be like Nutella


    "How did we get here? knock yourself out "

    I like that one hahaha

    here's a small doc ... guy has a funny accent... but it's ok

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v66HM5ILiwk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Be like Nutella


    American Forces Press Service
    LOS ANGELES, June 8, 2007

    http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=46352


    Military, Hollywood Team Up To Create Realism, Drama on Big Screen

    By Donna Miles
    American Forces Press Service
    LOS ANGELES, June 8, 2007 – When the DreamWorks/Paramount Pictures live-action film “Transformers” opens at movie houses nationwide July 4, the scenes with F-117 Nighthawk aircraft, CV-22 Osprey troop transports and airmen running across the scene will look so convincing, viewers will swear they’re the real deal.
    lrs_airmen%20running%20transformers.jpg
    Airmen filling the roles of movie extras run on the set of the movie "Transformers" during filming at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M. The movie is scheduled for release in July. Photo by Air Force Tech. Sgt. Larry A. Simmons

    (Click photo for screen-resolution image);high-resolution image available.And they’ll be right.

    Much of the action for the film, in which dueling robots from outer space bring their battle to Earth, was filmed months ago at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., and Holloman Air Force Base and White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. About 300 airmen and soldiers whose images dot the screen will be real servicemembers. And the action will take place alongside real-life military aircraft, including the Osprey and F-22 Raptor, both making their Hollywood debuts.

    Based on the animated 1980s TV series of the same name, the “Transformers” movie will showcase the latest in computer-generated imagery -- and a level of realism filmmakers say they couldn’t get without Defense Department support.

    The 1927 film “Wings” set the standard for that cooperation, Phil Strub, who heads the department’s film and TV liaison office at the Pentagon, said. In that classic silent-movie production, filmmakers used actual Army aircraft, soldiers, and real estate to reenact World War I training and combat operations.

    The result was so authentic that the picture became a big box office hit and the first movie to win an Oscar for best picture.

    The production was a win-win situation, Strub said. As Hollywood got realism, the military got the chance to show the American public something important about military people, equipment and missions.

    Strub said that’s the same reason filmmakers keep asking for military cooperation to this day and why, in many cases, the Defense Department supports their requests.

    In another recent example of that cooperation, Edwards Air Force Base hosted movie director Jon Favreau.

    As he spent three days at Edwards filming “Iron Man,” which Marvel studio hopes will become its next superhero blockbuster, Favreau raved about the realism the base’s dazzling array of aircraft brought to his fantasy story. “This is the best back lot you could ever have,” he said. “Every angle you shoot is authentic: desert, dry lake beds, hangars.”

    Some of the most popular TV series, including the Fox Broadcasting Company thriller “24,” tap into this realism, too.

    Fans of “24” might remember the scene when a military honor guard attended President Palmer’s coffin in the Season 5 finale, or when Jack Bauer frantically worked to foil a terrorist plot involving a nuclear submarine.

    Robert Cochran, the program’s cofounder, said the military support used to create these and other military-related scenes lends a tremendous dimension to the program. “It makes it bigger. It makes it more interesting. It makes it more real,” he said.

    Meanwhile, Cochran said, it underscores the “high-stakes” theme of the program. “When you see an F-18 streaking across the sky and dropping a bomb on an enemy helicopter, that visually tells you this is real, this is important, this is big stuff,” he said.

    Howard Gordon, lead writer for the show, said he’s often amazed just how far the military will go to support storylines he and his fellow writers come up with. “I’ll say, ‘There’s no way they are going to do this, but we will negotiate a way to do something like it, but much more modestly’,” he said. “Then, they come back with a ‘yes.’”

    But before giving that “yes,” officials from the Pentagon and the military services portrayed get a chance to review the script, Strub explained. They negotiate to increase the realism and historical accuracy of the military scenes, recognizing the leeway needed for artistic license. Sometimes they require script changes as a condition of providing support.

    Whether they provide support, and how much, depends largely on what’s needed in the production and how available it is in light of real-world requirements, Strub said. Movie and TV producers reimburse the government for the cost of supporting a production. One of the biggest costs comes from reimbursing squadrons for flight operations specifically for a movie production, as in the movies “Top Gun” and “Black Hawk Down.”

    But Strub said Defense Department support for a production boils down to something less tangible than hardware: how the production portrays the military and the men and women in uniform.

    When reviewing a script, Strub said, he tries to put himself in the place of a servicemember who would see the movie. “I try to imagine myself sitting in a theater or the big screen, and how it makes me feel seeing how I’m being portrayed,” he said.

    Air Force Capt. Christian Hodge, who has served as the Defense Department’s project officer on both “Transformers” and “Iron Man,” said military people typically enjoy seeing their services on screen. “It’s good for morale,” he said.

    Hodge said there’s no way to measure the true impact Hollywood productions have on recruiting. But he said it’s hard to dismiss the message a big-screen production like “Iron Man” sends.

    “This movie is going to be fantastic,” he said. “The Air Force is going to come off looking like rock stars.”

    Strub said he hopes audiences viewing these programs see past the action and high-tech hardware to fundamentals that make the military stand apart from much of society. “We’re talking about self-sacrifice, duty and commitment to something beyond oneself,” he said. “These are values that we hope come through.”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    geeman wrote: »
    Snobbery? I'm not the one starting perpetual wars to make a profit, buddy.
    The men who cheer lead wars are the last people you'll see on the frontline of any battle, they make the least amount of sacrifice of all in society and it's people like you that jump to their defense just to amuse yourself.

    How did we get here? knock yourself out

    ahh, my mistake.
    I assumed you wanted a discussion, not simply to have your opinion validated immediately.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭Jesus Nut


    geeman wrote: »
    Okay, this isn't even released this side of the pond yet until the 23rd I believe... so It's obviously hard for people to judge whether or not it's intended to promote recruitment into the Army and the Navy Seals.

    First of all, an Ex-Navy Seal did see the film and documented his likes/dislikes here

    Pay attention to his final comment on what he hopes the film will accomplish.
    I also hope that it results in more of the RIGHT kind of men going to their recruiters and saying: “I want to join the Navy to be a Navy SWCC,” or “I want to join the Navy to be a Navy SEAL.”

    These quotes in bold got me thinking that this film was primarily intended for recruitment into the military...( I realise it's not illegal, now go back and read the Ex-Navy Seals dislikes ;) )

    Of course, It wouldn't be much of a conspiracy theory just to name 1 film and a couple of quotes by an Ex-Navy Seal so I did a little searching on this and came up with a few more notable titles.

    Top Gun (Fighting Russians)
    The Delta Force (Fighting Terrorist Hijackers and Persians)
    The Delta Force 2 (Fighting druglords in Colombia)
    Black Hawk Down (Fighting Somalians)

    Also rumoured to be in the development phase is 'Top Gun 2'

    What these type of films do is reinvigorate and mobilize a whole new generation of people willing to go out to foreign countries with the belief they're killing people to protect their own country.

    It's probably a big subject and I'm not doing it justice here but do you think Hollywood and the Pentagon work together to promote recruitment into the military using high-budget films?

    If so, what other titles would you consider propaganda films?

    that song, in the navy by the ymca lads?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 833 ✭✭✭snafuk35


    I read Helmet For My Pillow and With the Old Breed and watched the Pacific TV series which was based on both books. The books and the TV series tells the raw truth about what war is really like - hell on earth. Yet a young kid watching it thinks war is cool. There's no way around it.


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