cheapest option for tv cards

tipdrinker

Hi

I was wondering is anyone had suggestions as to what the cheapest options would be for getting saorview and freesat (preferably being able to record and watch at the same time) on a htpc? I'm trying to suss up parts for a build and im stuck with the tv tuner cards :-(

tipdrinker

Hmm no replies. Maybe this question is asked too much. Could anyone point me in the right direction? btw I intend posting my proposed build in a wee while is that encouraged or frowned upon? :-)

johnybean

tipdrinker,
I am in the same boat as you at the moment. all set for a full on htpc build and have reviewed/researched every individual component almost to the point of divorce!! TV tuner cards can be a tricky one to research as we are in a funny situation in this great country of hours in that we have to get saorview and freesat if we wnt to most of the decent channels supplied by Sky. The problem is that saorview is broadcast in DVD-T and Freesat/freesat HD is broadcast in DVD - S(2). (I think im right in saying that, some of the other guys on here are a lot more knowledgeable about this stuff then me) From looking around, the best option is the Blackgold 3600 http://shop.blackgold.tv/BGT3600
Its a quad tuner with bothe DVD-T(2) and DVD-S(2) which will allow you to recieve freesat and saorview with a single card. you will also be able to pause, rewind, record etc with programmes such as http://www.dvbviewer.com/en/index.php
Only snag with this option is that the BGT3600 is almost constantly out of stock. as far as I know they havent had any in stock since last november and the site always says that there is new stock ariving soon. I think the main delay is due to the floods in Thailand. I have tried searching for an alternative to the BGT3600 but from what I could see its one of the top brands in a small market place so I might just get the rest of the components for my htpc and hold out for the Blackgold if and when it comes. If you search boards for BGT3600 or Blackgold you will find lots of info
Hope this is of some assistance.
Regarding posting your build - Post away and best of luck with it :D

liamf

Hi

an alternative you might consider is a combination of a Hauppauge HVR-4400 http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_hvr4400.html with a second cheap single-purpose DVB-S2 card.

I have a mythtv system with the predecessor of the HVR4400 in it, plus a cheap Technotrend DVB-S2 receiver card.

The combination is probably about the same price as that (rather nice, I'll admit) BGT card referred to. The difference being you can actually buy it :-)

Two issues with this setup which don't bother me but you should consider.

The Hauppauge card, although it is DVB-T and DVB-S/S2, can only use one or the other at the same time. At least that's true of the HVR4000 which I have, I didn't read the fine print on the HVR4400.

So you can have 2x DVB-S2 view/recording sessions, or 1xDVB-S2 and 1xDVB-T

With Mythtv, you can record >1 program from the same mux at the same time. This is not so useful on satellite, but in Ireland it is very useful on DVB-T.

In Ireland at the moment, with the appropriate software, you can watch and record two programs on Saorview with a single card because there is a single mux only. There is supposed to be a second mux coming along later this year - and there are test transmissions form time to time - but it is not clear to me anyway what services, if any, will actually be on the second mux.

Amazon has a good selection of DVB receiver cards, always a good place to start research.

Have fun.
Liam

msvalhalla

@liamf

Can you let me know if the Hauppauge HVR-4400 predecessor you have will tune the saorview (i.e. MPEG4)? It doesnt state it on their site as it is a UK site and aimed at freeview for UK customers.
I am looking at a Hauppauge card for tuning UPC analogue + Saorview, and I can't get confirmation anywhere if it will pick the Soarview.

@tipdrinker

I am building a HTPC at the moment also. Here is what I have learned.
- Hauppauge and Blackgold are the most common out there, and are priced well also. But being the most common you will always find plenty of online references if you have trouble with it down the road or setting it up.
- If you plan on using PCIe/PCI slots and your HTPC box has enough then it might be better to get two cards as you will definitely have two tuners. Otherwise know what you need in terms of dual tuners if you plan to do a lot of recording one channel and watching another.
- I plan on just having one card - most likely the Hauppauge HVR-1700. Im not going to use a satelite channel, but I am going to use two signals: UPC analogue + Saorview. This will require appropriate filters/diplexers to set it up correctly. If this is in your interests or you have questions for "outside" the HTPC box, then you should post in the Cable and Digital TV thread as the guys there are quick to respond and very knowledgable: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=40

Regards,
Mike

liamf

@msvalhalla

I have a HVR-4000 card.

It works fine with saorview.

To descend deep into nerd-speak for a while, MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 are video encoding standards. DVB-T is a modulation and data transmission scheme for transmission. The video is encoded in MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 and is packaged up into a packetised data stream called a "Transport Stream" along with a bunch of other stuff (audio for example, and various other things), and that transport stream is then broadcast using a defined modulation scheme.

So what's important for reception of the signal is that your receiver card is compatible with the modulation scheme used (which, in Ireland is DVB-T and in the UK for standard Freeview is also DVB-T). In the UK to complicate matters somewhat, there is also Freeview HD which is DVB-T2, a different newer standard.

The transmission is demodulated by the receiver card, and out comes the packetised data stream. From that you can split out the individual programs which are encoded in MPEG-something - for video data, MPEG-4 in Ireland or MPEG-2 in the UK - and it's that data which is presented to whatever you are using for decoding and displaying it. That's what needs to be able to handle MPEG-2 or MPEG-4.

So to cut a long story short: DVB-T is ok for saorview. The HVR-4000 or 4400 are DVB-T. They will work fine.

johnybean

liamf

Will a DVB-T tuner also pick up the saorview HD channels. As you say, the UK freeview HD channels are DVB-T2, is this the case for saorview HD channels also? Is DVB-T2 backwards compatible (ie will it recieve DVB-T & DVD-T2) and if so would I be able to get seperate dual DVB-T2 and a dual DVB-S2 tuner cards and use Mythtv or something similar to watch and record from multiple sources simultaneously?

liamf

johnybean wrote: »

Will a DVB-T tuner also pick up the saorview HD channels. As you say, the UK freeview HD channels are DVB-T2, is this the case for saorview HD channels also?

A DVB-T tuner will pick up saorview HD. Saorview is DVB-T only, including the HD services. As far as I know only the RTE2 service is HD at the moment.

johnybean wrote: »

Is DVB-T2 backwards compatible (ie will it recieve DVB-T & DVD-T2) and if so would I be able to get seperate dual DVB-T2 and a dual DVB-S2 tuner cards and use Mythtv or something similar to watch and record from multiple sources simultaneously?

Yes, it's backwards compatible. A DVB-T2 card will receive DVB-T as well. However unless you are in an area which can pick up Freeview too, there is no need to get DVB-T2 compatibility for Ireland.

You can certainly build a system based on MythTV with practically any number of separate DVB-T2 or DVB-S2 cards, have it present you a unified channel list from both, and be able to watch and record from multiple sources simultaneously.

johnybean

laimf

Thanks a million for the feedback, you just made my life an awful lot easier:D:D:D

Now, if you could just convinve my wife that a dedicated htpc is the way to go then you would be an absolute hero:):):)

liamf

johnybean wrote: »

laimf

Now, if you could just convinve my wife that a dedicated htpc is the way to go then you would be an absolute hero:):):)

Ah, that might be harder.

Actually for you and your (probably, let's face it) long suffering spouse, the main thing to consider from a HTPC build in my opinion is noise. A noisy machine will become a constant annoyance.

That's why I'd always go for a client-server setup.

A server backend which has the receiver cards in it, and either has disks or you use a separate NAS for recordings. That you stick someplace out of the way, and certainly not in the TV room. Can be old crappy recycled machine as it does not need to be powerful.

And a small, very quiet, diskless frontend machine connected to the TV which does the decoding and runs the user interface. I run XBMC on mine (I have two frontends and one backend).

Quite high spouse acceptance factor. Well, moderately high. The kids love it.

johnybean

Thats a very interesting approach. I had wanted to build a htps to
1)Watch TV
2)Watch movies stored on hard drive
3)Look at photos stored on HDD
4)Listen to music stored on HDD
5)Download torrents striaght to HDD
6)Very light web browsing.
7)Rip burn BluRay and DVD
8)Output 1080p
I have surrond sound in the sitting room so I thought I would have to have the htpc with optical out and HDMI output in the TV room for connection to the required outputs but your idea of having the main htpc in another room and having a small fron end with the required front ends is intruiging. I set up mediaportal on the laptop I have at the moment and watched a movie last night and the noise from the fan was quite audible(to me anyway). Media portal also crashed twice during playback so I am going to give xbmc a go to see which setup/interface I prefer.
What front ends are you using?

liamf

I use an Acer Revo R3610 and an eMachines ER1400.
Neither of which are available any more I think, although you might find them on ebay.

Both running Ubuntu and XBMC. I took the HDDs out of them and run them each from a thumb drive.

The ER1400 is in the living room, is left powered on all the time because it also runs the home phone system, and without it's HDD is completely silent.

The Revo R3610 is actually not completely silent: it runs it's fan quite a bit. Actually I think taking the HDD out of it made no difference to it at all noise wise. But it is still pretty quiet. And we only run it when we're using it.

And I am getting one of these as an experiment: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/raspberry-pi?ICID=hp_raspberry : that might be the ultimate HTPC frontend.

From your list of requirements, these systems (Ubuntu + XBMC) match all of them except ripping disks: they don't have optical drives. They have optical and HDMI out.

johnybean

Thanks a million for the info.
Definately gonna have a rethink about my build now as your idea sounds like the best solution. Was also looking at the raspbery Pi and might pick one up for a bit of experimentation myself.
Apologies to the OP for going a bit off topic:D

Antigrav

liamf wrote: »

And I am getting one of these as an experiment: http://www.element14.com/community/groups/raspberry-pi?ICID=hp_raspberry : that might be the ultimate HTPC frontend.

Good luck on the Rasberry pi. I have one on back order, but they seem to be out of stock everywhere!

I have similar setup to you. Back-end/NAS with tv cards and lots of HDDs. Front-end Atom SSD fanless htpc hdmi xbmc plugged into 5.1 A/V and TV.

Works well, but expensive to have htpc in all rooms, so looking at R. pi as cheap media connector for any lcd/led tvs around the house.

May be worth a dedicated thread if you get one set up?

liamf

Antigrav wrote: »

Good luck on the Rasberry pi. I have one on back order, but they seem to be out of stock everywhere!

April 30th Farnell tell me. I will believe it when I see it.

Antigrav wrote: »

May be worth a dedicated thread if you get one set up?

Good plan, I'll start one when I get my hands on it.

Remouad

@Antigrav & liamf

I'm building my media server and looking at experimenting using the respberry pi as a extender. Looks like the perfect device for it.

Where can you pick them up from? checked the official site but all you can do is register your interest.

liamf

Remouad wrote: »

@Antigrav & liamf

I'm building my media server and looking at experimenting using the respberry pi as a extender. Looks like the perfect device for it.

Where can you pick them up from? checked the official site but all you can do is register your interest.

That's your only option: you can only buy them from RS or Farnell.
(Or, in fairness, I expect eBay too).

You register interest, after a while they email you back when the stock backlog clears and you place an order.

Not sure what the delay is down to now. Couple of weeks I expect.

For a media player: the RPi only ships with video codecs for H.264. It probably won't playback MPEG-2 video at all. So if you've got a load of that ....