Consistent accuracy of an AK47 ?

thecommietommy

I have never had the pleasure of firing an AK47 but hopefully this will be rectified on a visit to Eastern Europe some time in the future. But watching the movie Full Metal Jacket, the scene where the Vietnamese female sniper shoots a few of the Americans, I have often wondered about the authenticity of such deadly shooting. The female sniper with an AK47 shoots them consistently from 200 meters or whatever. Now I know obviously the capability of a rifle is down to the user, but would an AK47 be reliably accurate as I have the preception (probably wrong) that like say, the old Tommy gun, it's more of a spray job at close range ?

tac foley

She's certainly a h£ll of a shot with her AK47, but around 200m or so is a goodly range to get shot at with one.

It will sting for sure - it's a nice big fat 125gr bullet. I had two of them until 1988, and they were both pretty much the same degree of accuracy - around 3" groups of the whole magazine at 100m and opening out to about 7 - 8" at 200.

tac

kieranfitz

It's not an AK in FMJ http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Full_Metal_Jacket#SA_Vz.58

Manic Moran

I know the AK gets a bad rep, but it isn't actually as bad as all that in single fire mode. I found it to be surprisingly accurate and easy to shoot.

goldie fish

I think the accuracy problem comes from the fact the first setting on the change lever is automatic, instead of single shot.

tac foley

Manic Moran wrote: »

I know the AK gets a bad rep.

I'm not sure I'm with you there, Sir. Twenty-something million happy owners can't ALL be wrong

All I know is that if I'd been in a position to pick one up in a firefight instead of the POS 'battle rifle' SA80 there would have been no hesitation on my part.

I used to take both of mine to pieces, bury them in the sand, and get noobs to take out the bits and re-assemble them any which way they could.

They still worked, every time.

I also used to demonstrate destroying an issue Colt-made magazine by bending it in half with a single blow from the AK magazine.

AK-47? I'd go to war with one today.

tac

thecommietommy

kieranfitz wrote: »

It's not an AK in FMJ http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Full_Metal_Jacket#SA_Vz.58

Good information there kieranfitz - " The VC sniper (Ngoc Le) that "wastes" Eightball (Dorian Harewood), Cowboy (Arliss Howard) and Doc Jay (Jon Stafford) is armed with a Czech made SA Vz.58." Even when in the Soviet Eastern bloc the Czechs were still excellent engineers. Here's a link comparing the VZ-58 and AK-47. http://50ae.net/VZ-vs-AK/

thecommietommy

tac foley wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm with you there, Sir. Twenty-something million happy owners can't ALL be wrong

True, I don't see any guys who have used it looking for their money back

I started Googleing for more about the weapon and here's a good link to all kinds of variations about the AK47, from the use of drum magazine's to sniper type barrels with a bipod to shortened UZI type variations. An amazing weapon and possibly Russia's greatest contribution to modern warfare as macabre as that may seem -

http://www.vincelewis.net/AK47.html

xflyer

I have fired an Ak47. Found it very inaccurate but perhaps that was my lack of match practice and the the fact that it was well trashed. I imagine a newer one would be a lot better.

Definitely an iconic weapon.

johngalway

The driver is likely the biggest factor in accuracy, when you see some of the people using them is it any wonder.

AbusesToilets

thecommietommy wrote: »

Good information there kieranfitz - " The VC sniper (Ngoc Le) that "wastes" Eightball (Dorian Harewood), Cowboy (Arliss Howard) and Doc Jay (Jon Stafford) is armed with a Czech made SA Vz.58." Even when in the Soviet Eastern bloc the Czechs were still excellent engineers. Here's a link comparing the VZ-58 and AK-47. http://50ae.net/VZ-vs-AK/

One of the worst designed weapons I've had the misfortune to have had to work with. Receiver cover constantly gets bent in, firing pin shears off, springs bend. Utter garbage. I'd take an M4 over Ak any day of the week, I like accuracy.

harmoniums

I make semi auto versions of the VZ58

heres one:


DSC04051 by harmoniums, on Flickr
(look out for this one in the upcoming World War Z movie, the Budapest scene)
good for about 2 inches at 100 yards with decent ammo.
Completely different to the AK.

Milled receiver,
Bolt that locks like a Berreta 92.
Short stroke piston.

Why is it a bit more accurate than an AK?
I think its because the receiver doesn't flex as much, that and a better machined crown, and possibly because it doesn't use that stupid slant muzzle brake.

from two hundred yards, you can hit center mass of hand all day long.
supported, head shots all day long.

thecommietommy

AbusesToilets wrote: »

One of the worst designed weapons I've had the misfortune to have had to work with. Receiver cover constantly gets bent in, firing pin shears off, springs bend. Utter garbage. I'd take an M4 over Ak any day of the week, I like accuracy.

Yeah and I had the winning lottery ticket in me pocket.

KickstartHeart

TAC can probably answer this for me,

Is it true that the Russian 7.62x39mm round is not worth a s***e in bad weather? A friend of mine works with an eastern european guy (not sure what country) who used to be in the army back home and he said to us that the AK gets a bad rap, but its actually a fine weapon as long as there isn't heavy rain.

He said the bullet looses accuracy in rain. I found that hard to believe because most bullets are barely effected by wet weather.

He also said that there isn't as much of a kick from the charge in the 7.62x39mm round as there is from the NATO 7.62 so after about 300m/400m the bullet has a huge drop.

Was he filling us with s***e or are those two points true?

tac foley

While I'm grateful that you have asked me, there are other far more knowledgeable folks on this forum than this old [EMAIL="f@rt"]f@rt[/EMAIL] -

Is it true that the Russian 7.62x39mm round is not worth a s***e in bad weather? A friend of mine works with an eastern european guy (not sure what country) who used to be in the army back home and he said to us that the AK gets a bad rap, but its actually a fine weapon as long as there isn't heavy rain.

Total garbage.

He said the bullet looses accuracy in rain. I found that hard to believe because most bullets are barely effected by wet weather.

You are correct - shooting in a monsoon, perhaps - a rare occurrence outside tropical and sub-tropical Asia...

He also said that there isn't as much of a kick from the charge in the 7.62x39mm round as there is from the NATO 7.62 so after about 300m/400m the bullet has a huge drop.

A few facts and figures to let you make up your own mind -

1. The 7.62x39 AK47 cartridge is what is called an intermediate calibre - NOT a rifle calibre. The 7.62x51 is a full-size rifle calibre, and a direct replacement for not only the US .30-06 but also for all the UK and Commonwealth [and NATO] .303/7.92 calibre firearms.

2. The AK47 bullet weighs only 123 or 123.5gr. The NATO 7.62x51 weighs 150gr, often, depending on application, up to 200gr.

3. The AK47 bullet has a muzzle energy of ~2073 ft lbs. The 7.62cal bullet has a muzzle energy of ~3500 ft lbs.

4. There are so many variables to bullet drop - barrel length, weight and type charge, maker-to-make variation and so on - that drop charts for guesstimates are almost meaningless. Suffice it to say that the AK47 cartridge is an intermediate range cartridge and not, as the NATO cartridge plainly is, a long-ranger.

AFAIK, there are NO long-range target rifles based on the Russian round, while there are bazillions based on the civilian version of the NATO round, as well, of course, as military sniping rifles.

Was he filling us with s***e or are those two points true?[/QUOTE]

YOU decide.

tac

AbusesToilets

thecommietommy wrote: »

Yeah and I had the winning lottery ticket in me pocket.

:rolleyes: great contribution there

KickstartHeart

tac foley wrote: »

While I'm grateful that you have asked me, there are other far more knowledgeable folks on this forum than this old f@rt -

Is it true that the Russian 7.62x39mm round is not worth a s***e in bad weather? A friend of mine works with an eastern european guy (not sure what country) who used to be in the army back home and he said to us that the AK gets a bad rap, but its actually a fine weapon as long as there isn't heavy rain.

Total garbage.

He said the bullet looses accuracy in rain. I found that hard to believe because most bullets are barely effected by wet weather.

You are correct - shooting in a monsoon, perhaps - a rare occurrrence outside tropical and sub-tropical Asia...

He also said that there isn't as much of a kick from the charge in the 7.62x39mm round as there is from the NATO 7.62 so after about 300m/400m the bullet has a huge drop.

A few facts and figures to let you make up your own mind -

1. The 7.62x39 AK47 cartridge is what is called an intermediate calibre - NOT a rifle calibre. The 7.62x51 is a full-size rifle calibre, and a direct replacement for not only the US .30-06 but also for all the UK and Commonwealth [and NATO] .303/7.92 calibre firearms.

2. The AK47 bullet weighs only 123 or 123.5gr. The NATO 7.62x51 weighs 150gr.

3. The AK47 bullet has a muzzle energy of ~2073 ft lbs. The 7.62cal bullet has a muzzle energy of ~3500 ft lbs.

4. There are so many variables to bullet drop - barrel length, weight and type charge, maker-to-make variation and so on - that drop charts for guesstimates are almost meaningless. Suffice it to say that the AK47 cartridge is an intermediate range cartridge and not, as the NATO cartridge plainly is, a long-ranger.

AFAIK, there are NO long-range target rifles based on the Russian round, while there are bazillions based on the civilian version of the NATO round, as well, of course, as military sniping rifles.

Was he filling us with s***e or are those two points true?

YOU decide.

tac[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info!

thecommietommy

AbusesToilets wrote: »

:rolleyes: great contribution there

Almost as good as yours funny guy.

AbusesToilets

thecommietommy wrote: »

Almost as good as yours funny guy.

Yeah, I'm speaking from experience, you're speaking out of your 4th point.

tac foley

Darn, I SHOULD have pointed out that BOTH are 7.62 calibre.

In my para 3 response, please read 7.62x51 bullet weight between 150 and 200gr, depending on the application.....

'tween you and me, it's all these meds they keep feeding us on the hour to keep us from banging on the bars....

tac