Opting out of Catholic Church

angeleyes

I checked with countmeout. ie and it seems that due to changes in Canon law and lack of clarification from the Catholic Church it is not processing Declarations of Defections.

I recently contacted my own diocese and received the following response

"The procedure regarding formally defecting from the faith is a simple one. Write to me with your relevant details: Name, Address, Date of Birth, Parents’ Names; Parish of Baptism. I will then process your request. I will contact the Parish Priest of the parish of your baptism and ask him to include an annotation regarding your defection in the baptismal records. Once I have received confirmation from the Parish Priest that he has recorded your formal defection from the Catholic Church in the Baptismal Register, I will forward a copy of your Baptismal Certificate carrying the annotation."

So I am just wondering if people are still defecting or opting out from the CC and would have done so recently.

Peregrinus

Yes, they are. There are a couple of accounts from people who have done so over on the Atheism and Agnosticism board.

I think fewer people may be doing this than in the past, since some are discouraged from trying by the information fthey read on the countmeout website. But I don't think what countmeout says is correct or, at any rate, it's not correct for all dioceses.

gawker

Hey. I'm currently in the process. I think each dioceses can take their own approach to this after the rules were changed a while back on a church-wide level. I was baptised in Kildare and Leighlin and recently had a reply from a priest there explaining I could have my record of baptism removed but could have a note inserted into my file saying I no longer consider myself a Catholic.

ISAW

thereis a fairly long thread on this already.
why do you need a piece of paper to validate your opting out?
If you dont need it why do you require the authority of the church to say you are not a member? seems like a contradiction to me.


http://www.technomancy.org/catholic-defection/

motu proprio Omnium in mentem of 26 October 2009 which removed from the canons in question all reference to an act of formal defection from the Catholic Church.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20091026_codex-iuris-canonici_lt.html

gimmebroadband

Many leave the Church because they cannot accept her teachings, they want to conform God to their own ways instead of conforming to God's ways.

When Jesus preached to the crowd about eating His flesh and drinking His blood, many of his hearers turned away from him, as they couldn't accept his teaching. Jesus didn't call them back and say "I really meant it as a metaphor, like so many of his other parables, such as the parable of the seed etc., which he explained afterwards, Not so when he was preparing his disciples for the miracle of the Eucharist which he would institute at the last super. Jesus turned to the twelve and asked "Do you want to go away too?" To which Peter replied, "to whom shall we go, you have the message of Eternal life!" John chapter 6.

Keylem

Whether one's name is in the registry or not, doesn't make one jot of difference, you cannot be unbaptised, it leaves an indelible (or permanent) mark on the soul that can never be effaced!

uck51js9zml2yt

why the use of the word defection as if we were doing something wrong in leaving the catholic religion?
I stopped considering myself rc 30 yeArs ago and never felt the need to get deregistered.
I had no choice at birth and its not considered valid. I made a choice to walk with god on my teens and that takes precedence over canon law

gimmebroadband

Canon law is based on Divine Law and Natural Law.

The ultimate source of canon law is God, Whose will is manifested either by the very nature of things (natural Divine law), or by Revelation (positive Divine law). Both are contained in the Scriptures and in Tradition.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09056a.htm

Pwpane

Keylem wrote: »

Whether one's name is in the registry or not, doesn't make one jot of difference, you cannot be unbaptised, it leaves an indelible (or permanent) mark on the soul that can never be effaced!

What a jubilant post!

Keylem, from the Catholic Catechism http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm unless I've missed something while reading, it seems that the two effects of baptism are the removal of the punishment due to sin including that of Adam's sin, and incorporation into the Church.

So the only mark left on the soul is the removal of the punishment due to Adam's sin, i.e. the soul is no longer banished from Heaven.

Is this the mark you mean?

And if a person is no longer a member of the Church as marked on their baptismal register, is this the indelible mark on their soul, that they are no longer banished from Heaven?

uck51js9zml2yt

gimmebroadband wrote: »

Canon law is based on Divine Law and Natural Law.

The ultimate source of canon law is God, Whose will is manifested either by the very nature of things (natural Divine law), or by Revelation (positive Divine law). Both are contained in the Scriptures and in Tradition.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09056a.htm

...as per the catholic church whose law it is.
I don't accept it as gods law. the bible is gods word not canon law

ISAW

Mustafa Clever Hockey wrote: »

why the use of the word defection as if we were doing something wrong in leaving the catholic religion?
I stopped considering myself rc 30 yeArs ago and never felt the need to get deregistered.
I had no choice at birth and its not considered valid. I made a choice to walk with god on my teens and that takes precedence over canon law

Right and wrong existed before anyone started writing down laws.
But if there are laws should you not respect them?
what problems in particular do you have with Catholicism?
Or is it only with Roman catholicism? I mean what p^roblems do you have with Angmlicanism or Orthodox denominations?

uck51js9zml2yt

Well i could start with the fact that Catholicism came subsequent to Christianity. I'm a follower of the the original.
I could also say that it has spent centuries keeping people from meeting with god directly with the introduction of a clergy and dead mediators.
It kept the Bible from the populace and killed those who dared to make it available.
All the other religions came about about through disagreement and conflict so I would say that they are as faulty as catholicism.
The Orthodox split derived from a disagreement over popes.
Instead of people coming to a living faith in God through belief in Jesus they were told to go to mass and pray to the saints so that they could mediate with God even though the bible says there is only 1 mediator and that's Jesus Christ.
Instead God has been reduced to 45 minutes once a week who resides in a gold box with a man to mediate.
It creates a hierarchy of princes with a king at their head to replace bondslaves and servants in the church.
It puts the right to exercise the power of god in a few men replacing it with all members of the body functioning as the Spirit wills for the purposes of building up the body.
I left Catholicism when I found I could have a relationship with God.When He forgave my sin when He put His Spirit and His Life in Me and the Spirit made His words alive and real. I left when I knew that my eternity was secure in Him.
You mentioned obey laws....which is better to do, to obey God or men?

lmaopml

Mustafa Clever Hockey wrote: »

Well i could start with the fact that Catholicism came subsequent to Christianity. I'm a follower of the the original.
I could also say that it has spent centuries keeping people from meeting with god directly with the introduction of a clergy and dead mediators.
It kept the Bible from the populace and killed those who dared to make it available.
All the other religions came about about through disagreement and conflict so I would say that they are as faulty as catholicism.
The Orthodox split derived from a disagreement over popes.
Instead of people coming to a living faith in God through belief in Jesus they were told to go to mass and pray to the saints so that they could mediate with God even though the bible says there is only 1 mediator and that's Jesus Christ.
Instead God has been reduced to 45 minutes once a week who resides in a gold box with a man to mediate.
It creates a hierarchy of princes with a king at their head to replace bondslaves and servants in the church.
It puts the right to exercise the power of god in a few men replacing it with all members of the body functioning as the Spirit wills for the purposes of building up the body.
I left Catholicism when I found I could have a relationship with God.When He forgave my sin when He put His Spirit and His Life in Me and the Spirit made His words alive and real. I left when I knew that my eternity was secure in Him.
You mentioned obey laws....which is better to do, to obey God or men?

Not this again.

I have a relationship with God, I'm a Catholic - go figure!

I'm also a big huge sinner who needs to examine myself daily, I wasn't reborn perfect, and then became perfect, I was baptised to a new way of life, a new way of understanding life that wasn't directly granted to me as a huge concession for when I am acting badly, but to a new way of life that emphasised when I am acting badly or contrary, but I am still human and Christ will forgive my sins when I know what it is that I am doing wrong and causing hurt to others who love Christ too.

uck51js9zml2yt

I know Catholics who have a relationship with god too. I even know some protestants.
interesting you didn't reply to the other points.
according to the bible getting baptised doesnt make you a Christian its symbolic of a spiritual encounter.

lmaopml

Mustafa Clever Hockey wrote: »

I know Catholics who have a relationship with god too.

Thank you.

I even know some protestants.

So do I.

interesting you didn't reply to the other points.

Well the points you made or the op's points? As regards the op, I apologise, but couldn't add anything to the points already made about how one determins their faith or lack of to be sure to be sure.

according to the bible getting baptised doesnt make you a Christian its symbolic of a spiritual encounter.

That's off topic, and has been discussed elsewhere, but certainly it is not a tireless discussion - everybody can learn or at least understand somethings in the right spirit, and on the right thread.

Peregrinus

Obviously different Christian traditions have different understandings of the significance of baptism. Equally obviously, in answering questions about how to opt out of the Catholic church (and get some kind of acknowledgement from the church) the Catholic understanding is the only relevant one.

The Christianity board would be an altogether more pleasant and productive place if people could resist the temptation, when someone asks a question about the Catholic position on anything and receives an answer, to intervene to say that, of course, they don’t accept the Catholic position. This is not an attractive form of witnessing. And the same goes for every other Christian tradition and denomination.

Catholic understanding in a nutshell: baptism is (a) necessary but (b) not sufficient for membership of the Catholic church. Thus the mere fact that you have been baptised does not, in itself, mean that you are, and will for ever be, a member of the Catholic church.

ISAW

Mustafa Clever Hockey wrote: »

Well i could start with the fact that Catholicism came subsequent to Christianity. I'm a follower of the the original.

the Original christians were the apostles and the early groups. they came together at Pentecost in Jerusalem. that was the first council of the church. I dont think you can be more original than that. they referred to each other as "bishops" or "episcopos" in greek.

I could also say that it has spent centuries keeping people from meeting with god directly with the introduction of a clergy and dead mediators.

Is it wrong to ask a living friend for a favour? Why then is it wrong to ask a dead one?

It kept the Bible from the populace and killed those who dared to make it available.

the bible was not available in a single book for several centuries after the "originals"
It was church groups and councils which put it together in the foirst place and it can be recovered by writings of bishops of that time -the Anti Nicean Fathers.
Try reading up on those "originals"

All the other religions came about about through disagreement and conflict so I would say that they are as faulty as catholicism.

Rally? Bhuddism? Hinduism? American shamism? Zoroastrianism? Sufi? ALL others? all on conflict? You might be stretching it there; how is Zoroastrianism based n conflict or disagreement?

The Orthodox split derived from a disagreement over popes.

i think you need to do a bit of reading.
the Orthodox have a different view more spiritual on theology. they dont have a pope.
they have an autocephaly -a hierarchy of several bishops five the bishops of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem; these were collectively referred to as the Pentarchy.

Instead of people coming to a living faith in God through belief in Jesus they were told to go to mass and pray to the saints so that they could mediate with God even though the bible says there is only 1 mediator and that's Jesus Christ.

You have this bit wrong as well. The whole point of Mass is the Eucharist which Jesus asked people to do in memory of him.

Instead God has been reduced to 45 minutes once a week who resides in a gold box with a man to mediate.

Also wrong on this oine. any catholic who thinks that christianity is going to Mass once a week and forget about it after that is a very bad catholic. In fact priests and parishoners also regularly say this.

It creates a hierarchy of princes with a king at their head to replace bondslaves and servants in the church.

If yu have a problem with the Bible which mentions priests deacons and bishops then dont blame the Bible of stating that they were to instruct and shepherd their flock. The "originals" as you call them set all this up. the Magesterium and the Apostolic sucession is what it is calld and it is all there in the per biblical writings of the "originals" along with fragments of the scriptures which when taken together are capable of reconstructing almost the entire new testament. the same people "originals" set this up. Go and read the history.

Just do a search under anti Nicean fathers.
By the war the deacon -priest-bishop - all mentioned in the bible distinction is separate to the temporal structure of the Vatican which i agree is not essential in the theological sense. But someone has to administrate several billion Christians.

It puts the right to exercise the power of god in a few men replacing it with all members of the body functioning as the Spirit wills for the purposes of building up the body.

Yes temporal power is vested in fewer people. such is the nature of large organisations.
As for religious instruction that is done by qualified people just as Protestants do.

I left Catholicism when I found I could have a relationship with God.When He forgave my sin when He put His Spirit and His Life in Me and the Spirit made His words alive and real. I left when I knew that my eternity was secure in Him.

Yes when you were Baptised. In a catholic church probably.

You mentioned obey laws....which is better to do, to obey God or men?

Sin existed before laws did but how do y know what to follow. If you rely only on the Biblke you still need to interpret it. do you think only you are sufficient for that? that you should not go outside of yourself for advice to seek understanding? If so you are in danger of becoming like the fundamentalist so called "Christians" .

I mean for example do you actually believe the Earth was created say about ten thousand years ago? If so why do you believe that?