An Post commencing electric van usage.

IrishHomer

I can't find a online link yet from rte.ie/news but on six one news tonight there was a story about An Post are now trialling electric vans in Cork and Dublin.

120km between charges so it's expected to last a daily postmans delivery. And I think it stated currently costs €2 to charge?

Interesting story An Post spokesman was on talking of the efforts to save money on fuel he stated An Post pay over ten million Euro per Annum on diesel.

TPM

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2012/0309/media-3223033.html

http://businessandleadership.com/sustainability/item/34243-an-post-trials-electric/

darragh o meara

10 million on diesel?? That's a lot of diesel. I'm looking forward to seeing Postman Pat in his battery powered van.

TPM

Might work in the cities and on the flat, but electric cars/vans in the hills and mountains is a long way off still

MugMugs

Is it just me or is this a trip to the past? Didn't they have electric vans decades ago?

eth0

Should be grand for hills and mountains too. I don't think there is a place in Ireland more than 60km away from a post office

L1011

eth0 wrote: »

Should be grand for hills and mountains too. I don't think there is a place in Ireland more than 60km away from a post office

There are certainly rural postmen who drive more than 120km in their entire days run. Running back to the office to swap vans isn't very time effective.

galwaytt

eth0 wrote: »

Should be grand for hills and mountains too. I don't think there is a place in Ireland more than 60km away from a post office

Another complete waste if taxpayers money. The ESB run some electric Transits, st a cost of...€70k each...?

Con job, pure and simple.

dr.fuzzenstein

MugMugs wrote: »

Is it just me or is this a trip to the past? Didn't they have electric vans decades ago?

Something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L90BduGKuTo

questionquick

galwaytt wrote: »

Another complete waste if taxpayers money. The ESB run some electric Transits, st a cost of...€70k each...?

Con job, pure and simple.

Con Job yeah? Well done.

How much will be saved on fuel over the life of the vehicle?

How much emissions will be cut to help Ireland meet its emission cutting targets?

Think about that before you call it a con job.

Sesshoumaru

I drove one of these, they have a completely flat loading area as they've run the battery underneath the length of the cargo area of the van. Very suitable for local postal runs, definitely in cities at least. I think this is great news.

http://www.renault.ie/renault-range/electric-vehicles/kangoo-ze/kangoo-ze/prices-and-specifications/

Price is €24,800 on the Renault website. In neither of the links does it say An Post bought them, just that they are trialing them.

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

Another complete waste if taxpayers money. The ESB run some electric Transits, st a cost of...€70k each...?

Con job, pure and simple.

I've spoken to people about those vans, you can't really compare them to the Kangoo ZE. The price on the Renault is far lower to begin with and this Renault is a production model van, not a conversion job.

serious3

well my postal run, rural, clocks up 134-139km a day so not much use to me!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

serious3 wrote: »

well my postal run, rural, clocks up 134-139km a day so not much use to me!

Of course they won't suit all routes but they will suit many. ESB uses them on operations that suit and it is saving a small fortune already after only 1 year in use. Let's take what benefits we can.

Sesshoumaru

serious3 wrote: »

well my postal run, rural, clocks up 134-139km a day so not much use to me!

That's fair enough, I don't think from looking at this trial, that An Post are planning an immediate and complete swap over to electric vans. Having some electric vans might bring some cost benefits. Do you know what the average run in the cities mentioned might be? Dublin, cork and Galway I think.

Shakti

Theres a battery rental of €79 euro a month on renault vans after you have bought the van itself. €79 euro a month will put a dent in any diesel saving they are making. IMO Hydrogen fuel cell will win out over heavy bulky deep cycle batteries, plus if you consider Ireland produces most of its electricity from burning fossil fuels, then charging your posties van up with that same electricity and claiming your green scout badge is a little disingenuous IMO.

Sesshoumaru

Shakti wrote: »

Theres a battery rental of €79 euro a month on renault vans after you have bought the van itself. €79 euro a month will put a dent in any diesel saving they are making. IMO Hydrogen fuel cell will win out over heavy bulky deep cycle batteries, plus if you consider Ireland produces most of its electricity from burning fossil fuels, then charging your posties van up with that same electricity and claiming your green scout badge is a little disingenuous IMO.

Did a little Googling to be sure and a "deep cycle" battery is apparently a lead-acid battery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_cycle_battery

The Kangoo ZE has lithium batteries, which I'm not claiming are feather light. But I'd say they're a damn sight lighter than lead-acid batteries that can hold 22kw/h of power.

The average Joe Soap that walks into a Renault show room has to pay €79 per month leasing a battery, I'm not so sure An Post wouldn't be given a better deal or maybe the option of just purchasing the batteries? In any case it's not the same as a regular consumer going in and buying one car.

A hydrogen fuel cell is just a different type of battery for powering EV's. If it can be made to work at an affordable price, I'll be celebrating.

questionquick

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Whats the cost of a non-electric van 30k? So a non-electric van your looking at a saving of what 40k. Thats a fair amount of diesel over the lifetime of van. Perhaps you should look at the total cost of ownership too.

These new vans are cheaper from what i can gather. Its about reducing emissions and reducing the reliance an oil too, lots of people will laugh that off now but wait till they see.

Sesshoumaru

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Whats the cost of a non-electric van 30k? So a non-electric van your looking at a saving of what 40k. Thats a fair amount of diesel over the lifetime of van. Perhaps you should look at the total cost of ownership too.

Well that would make the Kangoo ZE cheaper, it costs 24,800 on the www.renault.ie website. That doesn't include battery cost though, which is leased. Perhaps An Post might be given the option of purchasing the batteries? The Kangoo ZE has a 22kW-h battery pack. At $375 per kW-h that would cost Renault $8250 for the battery pack.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/02/21/battery-cost-dropping-below-200-per-kwh-soon-says-teslas-elon/

If you're taking 30k as an average price for a van in this category, I don't think buying it outright would be much more, if that were an option. Just mentioning this as I'm sure Renault's battery leasing scheme will be brought up.

Drummerboy08

The French postal service among some other fleets in France have up to 2000 EV commercials either on the road or on the way at the minute.

There are also a number of large fleets in Eire looking at putting some on the road.

I done the training course with Renault on these before christmas, and I have to say I'm impressed.

If anything, this will help build the infrastructure for EV's in Ireland. Regardless of what you think of EV's, petrol and diesel powered vehicles are not the future, so this can only be a good thing.

Sesshoumaru

LIGHTNING wrote: »

In the same way people said that oil was a thing of the past during the oil crisis 70`s and petrol powered cars were dead....

In fairness, we weren't competing with this in the 1970's

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/aug/24/china-cars-green-vehicles

Almost half of the new growth is in China, which recently overtook the US as the world's biggest car market thanks to the sales of 13.8m new passenger vehicles. Despite the surge in sales, car ownership in China is still only half the global average.

But hopes that the country will also become a pioneer in the shift towards "clean car" technology have suffered a setback as the Chinese show little sign of interest in electric and hybrid vehicles despite ambitious government plans. Last year, Toyota managed to sell only one Prius – the world's most commercially successful hybrid car – in the fastest-growing market. Sports utility vehicle sales, by contrast, are surging.

questionquick

LIGHTNING wrote: »

questionquick wrote: »

These new vans are cheaper from what i can gather. Its about reducing emissions and reducing the reliance an oil too, lots of people will laugh that off now but wait till they see.

In the same way people said that oil was a thing of the past during the oil crisis 70`s and petrol powered cars were dead....

No this is different. Things have changed since the 70s

Drummerboy08

Just to answer the question on costs, the fleet of 2011 Caddy's that An Post are running, probably cost them around 15k each given the amount we're talking about.

That makes the EV Kangoo a little more expensive, but there are other things that may make it attractive.

Fuel costs obviously is the main one, along with the massive cut in their fleet's CO2 figures that every state/semi state fleet are under massive pressure to reduce.

Shakti

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Did a little Googling to be sure and a "deep cycle" battery is apparently a lead-acid battery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_cycle_battery

The Kangoo ZE has lithium batteries, which I'm not claiming are feather light. But I'd say they're a damn sight lighter than lead-acid batteries that can hold 22kw/h of power.

The average Joe Soap that walks into a Renault show room has to pay €79 per month leasing a battery, I'm not so sure An Post wouldn't be given a better deal or maybe the option of just purchasing the batteries? In any case it's not the same as a regular consumer going in and buying one car.

A hydrogen fuel cell is just a different type of battery for powering EV's. If it can be made to work at an affordable price, I'll be celebrating.

Lithium right, not as but still heavy still bulky yes they will get smaller but not small enough fast enough to eclipse the already available Hyrogen fuel cell technology developed by Honda/Mercedes which is real genius on a combustion engine level type of genius.

Honda and mercedes both have production line hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and when you consider most hydrogen is produced from natural gas Ireland has the possibility of a domestically produced hydrogen supply in the future.

I dont know the ins and outs of the rental arrangements an post have with batteries and Renault but I doubt they're giving them away.

theoneeyedman

IrishHomer wrote: »

I can't find a online link yet from rte.ie/news but on six one news tonight there was a story about An Post are now trialling electric vans in Cork and Dublin.

120km between charges so it's expected to last a daily postmans delivery. And I think it stated currently costs €2 to charge?

Interesting story An Post spokesman was on talking of the efforts to save money on fuel he stated An Post pay over ten million Euro per Annum on diesel.

Was i mistaken but was the postie not swapping his bike for the van according to the report.....hardly a saving on fuel or enviormentally friendly improvement.

Sesshoumaru

Shakti wrote: »

Lithium right, not as but still heavy still bulky yes they will get smaller but not small enough fast enough to eclipse the already available Hyrogen fuel cell technology developed by Honda/Mercedes which is real genius on a combustion engine level type of genius.

Honda and mercedes both have production line hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and when you consider most hydrogen is produced from natural gas Ireland has the possibility of a domestically produced hydrogen supply in the future.

I dont know the ins and outs of the rental arrangements an post have with batteries and Renault but I doubt they're giving them away.

Are we talking about these cars? Nissan alone has sold 15,000 Leaf's worldwide, many times the number of these cars on the road currently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FCX_Clarity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_F-Cell

I'm not completely discounting this technology. But you're taking electricity and using it to split off hydrogen and store it. You then put that hydrogen into a fuel cell battery car and convert it back to electricity for use by the electric motor. They are both electric cars after all. I personally don't think this conversion process is as efficient, there are breakthroughs being made in lithium battery technology

http://www.gizmag.com/envia-systems-record-lithium-ion-battery/21653/

Shakti

Weightless hydrogen is stored not electricity no batteries.
This is a two year old vid and at that/this stage I think the cars were only available for lease but Honda will be able to cut production costs in line with demand I would of thought. I realise this is not an option for an post at this stage but I cant see how storing electricity on board is ever going to compete with a vehicle that can produce its own electricity on board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rofx6Gaz40

Anan1

MugMugs wrote: »

Is it just me or is this a trip to the past? Didn't they have electric vans decades ago?

30 years ago we had electric vans delivering milk in washable glass bottles. In some ways, we've gone backwards!

MugMugs

Anan1 wrote: »

MugMugs wrote: »

Is it just me or is this a trip to the past? Didn't they have electric vans decades ago?

30 years ago we had electric vans delivering milk in washable glass bottles. In some ways, we've gone backwards!

I agree. Maybe those Soviet Electric Buses weren't such a bad idea afterall.