Why does emigration have such a negative connotation?

starch4ser

The way I look at it, it's just the next wave of Irish people to make their mark on the world. I mean look at the result of the last mass emigration, the amount of people in powerful and influential positions in the US for example over the last few decades who are of Irish descent. As another example, look at the amount of countries around the world that celebrate St. Patricks day or all the landmarks that are going green for march 17th.
Georgia, Norway, Costa rica, Croatia and the Central African Republic (apparently this is a country) all have similar populations to Ireland but have nowhere near the profile that Ireland does around the world.

MickySticks

Dunno.

Finneen

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

beco2010

MickySticks wrote: »

Dunno.

short and true

Celly Smunt

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

Maybe they would if there was an opportunity to give back. :rolleyes:


sigh.

IM0

its just politics :rolleyes:

TheReverend

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

Would you rather they go on the dole and take more?

Where To

Emigration should be regarded as positive for the Irish economy.

Better a young wan coming home once a year and pumping €1000+ into the country than sitting here on their holes costing tens of thousands to keep.

Ickle Magoo

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

Not necessarily - lot of irish people are educated in the UK.

Why does it have negative connotations? Because it gives the impression that the country people are leaving is not attractive to live in, is in bad shape, cannot offer people anything - and naturally those who can't leave, don't want to leave or aren't having the same problems as those who have to resort to leaving the country don't like that general impression being waved about the international stage...

Emigration also has financial implications for the country if done in sufficient numbers, changing the population dynamics and leaving a more elderly population - as well as often reducing the average qualifications of the general populous as professionals who find it easier to get work elsewhere, leave. :cool:

V_Moth

One of the main reasons would be loss of human capital, if you want to view it on strictly economic terms. Also, if you look at a list of countries with net emigration, they tend not to be doing too well.

long range shooter

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

nope,EU Pays for it,and Ireland have not paid it back to the Eu.

forfuxsake

it doesn't have a negative connotation. Mass emigration has a negative connotation and rightly so.

1. It tears families apart.
2. It leads to a brain drain whereby the best and the brightest leave.
3. It decimates the population and leaves nobody to pay the pensions of the older generations.
4. It leads to the creation of at least five useless threads every single day.

Celly Smunt

forfuxsake wrote: »

it doesn't have a negative connotation. Mass emigration has a negative connotation and rightly so.

1. It tears families apart.
2. It leads to a brain drain whereby the best and the brightest leave.
3. It decimates the population and leaves nobody to pay the pensions of the older generations.
4. It leads to the creation of at least five useless threads every single day.

It does tear families apart
Our education system is on constant roll so there won't be a brain drain as such due to the availability of education here.
we also have a fairly equal Death/Birth ratio so we'll have healthy population pyramid.
Agree with the number 4.

Sindri

Because the detonative relationship of the signifier and the signified is inadequate to describe the historical and cultural situation in which it is and has occurring en masse in this country.

G'day.

Eric Cartman

because were Irish, we just imagine that all of us heading to australia is going to do the same as all the nigerians heading over here and get us a bad name.

forfuxsake

pmcmahon wrote: »

It does tear families apart
Our education system is on constant roll so there won't be a brain drain as such due to the availability of education here.
we also have a fairly equal Death/Birth ratio so we'll have healthy population pyramid.
Agree with the number 4.

Not so sure I agree with the death/birth ratio, surely if that is true then it would be upset by emigration and secondly does the birth/death ratio account for the huge number of children born to foreign nationals?

The Africans are likely to stay and become part of the next generation of Irish but most Poles I know (which is a lot as the missus is one) intend to go home once they have saved enough for a large deposit on a house or their benefits get stopped. My point is not to start a debate on immigrants, only to highlight that it may well be skewing the death/birth ratio statistics.

Rented Mule

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

Well if the Irish economy would let them, I am sure that they would be more than happy to oblige.

LordSutch

starch4ser wrote: »

Why does emigration have such a negative connotation?

Dunno? It does seem to be a uniquely Irish mindset that everybody should stay in the State and pull their weight, but in reality I think its a good thing for people to spread their wings & broaden their minds, while (hopeully returning at some point in the future). Travel does broaden the mind, so good luck to all those currently leaving these shores. This is a small state, its got a population of just four million people, and opportunities are naturally limited, there is so much more out there in the big wide world, so good luck to them I say.

mandrake04

Was it not Ronnie drew who said that Ireland's biggest export was people?

It doesn't really have any other export industry, it would be good if they could export the 316,000 empty houses that no one really needed.

James T Kirk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIga5_rVOW4

Seomra Mushie

starch4ser wrote: »

I mean look at the result of the last mass emigration, the amount of people in powerful and influential positions in the US for example over the last few decades who are of Irish descent.

This is patriotic crap. There are people in powerful and influential positions all over the world who have all kinds of different ancestries.

syklops

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

I tried to buy Irish state savings bonds but its not open to irish people living outside of the state.

I tried to vote in the last election but voting isnt open to Irish immigrants abroad.

Please give us an oppertunity to give something back. Not all Irish people are Bono.

Agricola

Nothing wrong with voluntary and small scale emigration. A 22 year old graduate who wants to see the world for a few years before coming home to take up a job is one thing, but a 50 year old father of 3 who has worked all his life in Ireland and who now HAS to leave the country in order to support his family is very different.

syklops

mandrake04 wrote: »

It doesn't really have any other export industry, it would be good if they could export the 316,000 empty houses that no one really needed.

Considering the amount of guinness and Jameson I drank yesterday i would beg to differ.

Wish they would export more sausages.

philologos

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

So, if I couldn't get a job in Ireland, how does being on social welfare improve this conundrum?

Simply put, I left because I found a good opportunity elsewhere, and to be honest it was nice to have a bit of a change. As for how long that's going to be for, I don't know, but to chastise emigrants with degrees on this logic is a little nonsensical.

syklops: I don't think Irish people abroad should have a right to vote in Irish elections. In leaving Ireland we've decided to no longer have a voice in Irish decision making. Wherever you are, your MP's represent you in your local area. I don't know what the situation is in the Czech Republic, but Irish people in the UK have full voting rights at all levels in elections.

syklops

philologos wrote: »

I don't think Irish people abroad should have a right to vote in Irish elections. In leaving Ireland we've decided to no longer have a voice in Irish decision making. Wherever you are, your MP's represent you in your local area. I don't know what the situation is in the Czech Republic, but Irish people in the UK have full voting rights at all levels in elections.

Would the irish abroad keep voting FF even when its obvious something is wrong back home?

MonkeyTennis

Im in my late 30s and almost all of my mates spent a few years abroad in Oz, the States or UK. Almost all of them came back during the celtic tiger years and did well for themselves on the back of the experience they got over there.

Its not the end of the world and if I was younger Id be off like a shot

philologos

syklops wrote: »

Would the irish abroad keep voting FF even when its obvious something is wrong back home?

The last time Fianna Fáil were elected into government was 5 years ago.

I couldn't blame people for voting FF in 2007. There was a good economy at the time, and there had been a good economy for a long time before that. They happened to ride a very good wave.

People in general lacked foresight. People went crazy with property that they never could repay. The banks gave them loans till there was no end of money. As a result, the nation rode on a tidal wave of debt until all came crashing down starting from 2008.

The shame is that many people lacked foresight, they didn't adequately save the money they had, or rather that they didn't diversify their investment portfolio outside of property. The problem was societal as well as Governmental.

At the moment it doesn't particularly matter very much who is in Government in Ireland, because the decisions are for the most part made in Brussels concerning our economy. The Eurozone in general is a never ending nightmare, and the European Union has gotten far too big for its boots. There's only so long that the EU can chuck money at beleagured economies to pass on to banks before people say enough.

Banks have an abundance of debt, EU tells Irish Government to suck up bank debt, Irish government sucks up bad debt, Irish Government has an abundance of debt, EU / IMF sucks up Irish debts. EU / IMF eventually can't suck up any more debt? What happens then?

Banks operate on the basis of being in a free market economy for the most part. So why couldn't it have been the case that if you got yourself into that mess as a business that you go bankrupt? - The Government could have guaranteed savings instead of assuring that debt would be paid.

amacachi

Because we're a bit like Liverpool football fans, we like to make ourselves be the victims in everything.


Look at America, people move thousands of miles across the country for a job, miles from their families. Hell loads even do it for college. We're part of the biggest area of free trade and movement (other than China and India) in the world and still emigration is seen as a terrible necessity. It's similar to our planning, people living in a cluster of 5 houses miles away from a main road expect to have broadband etc., Ireland expects everything to be within the country. Things just don't work like that, when there's 300 million people all with the option of moving around we're not going to have a static, perfect balance in every country.

kincsem

Finneen wrote: »

Because Irish taxpayers paid for their education and they're giving nout back.

Horse droppings.
In the 1970s I attended the my brother's degree conferring ceremony. His mate's father asked me what I did, and where was I working. When I told him I was emigrating he gave me a big lecture about the country paying for my education and that I owed it to the country to work in Ireland. I told the smug civil servant that jobs were scarce. I was back two years later, and contributed to the country for 35 of my 37 working years.

amacachi

philologos wrote: »

I couldn't blame people for voting FF in 2007. There was a good economy at the time, and there had been a good economy for a long time before that. They happened to ride a very good wave.

Funnily enough even looking at it from a fiscally conservative perspective FF were probably the best option, the other parties were promising more spending ffs. Don't really blame people for voting for FF, just blame them for FF being the best option because of what the other parties had to resort to to try and get votes.

hooradiation

starch4ser wrote: »

Why does emigration have such a negative connotation?

Because how dare you not stay here and be miserable like everyone else.

I'm beginning to think the Law of Jante isn't just limited to Scandinavian countries.

Lord TSC

For me, there's a difference between voluntary emigration and forced emigration.

It's not nessecarily a negative thing to have people wanting to leave the country. It's a horrible thing that so many people are forced to leave the country.

Mass emigration is being caused by negative aspects of our society, chief amoung them being that we've raised a generation to a point and then turned on them, telling them there's no jobs here for them and if they stay here, they'll be hated for taking the only option (ie The Dole). Thus, for many, the negative connotation with regards emigration is derived from the fact it's not a choice they are making willingly, but a lifestyle choice being forced on them, not due to any mistakes or decisions they made, but because of ones made by the generations before them...

Overheal

Whatever, you're a nation of Emigrants. You'd have to be pretty much used to it by now. It's not exactly the first time there has been a large wave of Irish emigration. There are reasons you can find Irish blood all around the world.

Roadtrippin

It doesn't have to be negative if it is voluntary emigration... I would argue though that at the moment the majority deciding to emigrate do not do so by choice.

It will have negative repercussions in the long run since not everybody will come back which means a lot of these highly skilled workers we're losing now will not be contributing to our economy in one way or another but to Australia's, Canada's, America's and other countries' economies.

It does leave a lot of parents without their children to look out for them while they are getting older.
A lot of people will realise that other countries have a better quality of life, including better weather and lower living expenses... and may not come back.

So what's there that's positive about emigration??? Mmh... not an awful lot left. Well, if it is by choice and people come back, they will bring a lot of life experience to the table and find jobs quicker (especially if they know another foreign language)