Mother wants to right her wrongs but I moved on...

LegacyUser

Dear boardsies please throw in your opinion as I am a little at a loss what to do. This is going to be long! Bottom line: my estranged mother who swindled me out of some money has made contact to try and pay it back; but I have moved on and would rather forget about it than be dragged into any mess again.

So go back twelve years. I was a college student, working in a fairly large company, junior wages but still good potential; I had to work to support myself because my parents were always useless with money, setting up some hopeless businesses, going into debt, despite being educated people with good job options. I moved out some time before and was renting, thinking about a small mortgage, slowly saving and talking to the bank. All taking place in another country (will be important later).

One day I only received half of my wages; upon checking I learnt that half was taken by an executioner via court order. Major shock, WTF. Major embarrassment at work. Short investigation and it turns out that a few years earlier my mother took out a loan on which she forged my signature. It was through some middleman company for equipment leasing or something; I never learnt how the bank accepted it in my absence but it did. The loan was not paid at all, accrued huge interest and ended up in court. My mother intercepted all correspondence having to do with it as I still had my mail sent to my parents' address and not my renting address; she must have known for years as the debt grew bigger. The actual amount of the loan was not that big but with the interest, execution costs etc. it amounted to half of my wages for a year and a half.

At that point I had the option to dispute the order and point to fraud (the forgery was very crude, and I knew who did it). But she begged me to let it run its course and promised to hand over the money (apparently she had some inheritance money saved or something) to pay it off at once. I stupidly agreed; you don't grass on your own mother over money alone after all. Of course, there was no money, she lied to me. But once I formally agreed to take it on the option to dispute it was gone. Within a month she emigrated stateside; I protested but she claimed she has a job lined up and is going there to pay the debt so she'll be sending me money to live on. She sent several small installments, truly pitiful, and that's it - no contact. During all this my parents were separated and later divorced, so she was very much a loose cannon. She left my two younger siblings behind (they lived with her), with some unpaid bills to sort out. I was left to pay the debt. I had no other option unless I wanted to take the litigation route and she was now on another continent. I think she caused problems for other people too, borrowing money she did not intend to repay etc. before she went away.

The next year or so was horrendous. I was shocked, depressed, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, cried a lot, lost a size in two months and there was not that much to lose. I literally had my hair falling out due to the stress. I was working and studying, but what I was left with only paid the bills, and I was also helping my siblings a little (my dad was useless and with problems of his own). I also took on part time jobs whenever I could. I had to keep my day job at all costs so my college and degree suffered badly. My bf was super helpful, took on extra work and was helping as much as he could while studying, literally bringing eggs and potatoes from his mum for me to live on. I got a blemish on my credit history too so could forget about the mortgage for a good while. My family was crumbling, my siblings suffered too (the youngest was only just after her LC). It was all killing me, but my bf has been such a great support. Finally I paid off the lot. Then out of sheer exhaustion I got a proper depression - got out of it with meds, counselling and the works but it was not a great experience.

After that we just wanted to leave it all behind; after some time for plans and preparations we came to live in Ireland which we always wanted to do and since then it's been more or less plain sailing. My mother was largely incommunicado, bar some occasional two liner of an email for birthdays or Christmases. I didn't even know where she is. Through other members of the family I learnt that she is back in Europe and has remarried. I met her once, at a funeral last year and we had a polite but distant conversation; she seemed to want to talk to me and my siblings more but we were not that much into it as they are also unenthusiastic about her. She mentioned the issue of the debt obliquely to which I did not respond.

During these years (and also due to counselling I received) I largely came to be at peace with all that. What happened, happened; it changed my life but not all of it was bad. I learnt that my OH is someone to rely on and together we can go through good and bad. I was motivated to move countries. I did not get tied up with some crappy apartment I was thinking about buying. I am now happy, in a good long term relationship, financially stable and generally enjoying life. If this whole sorry affair turns out to be the worst hardship of my life I will count myself one lucky girl. I also had a thought about how I believe that children should support their parents in their old age if needed, and that my mother just collected her dues early (and by force) so this ends my obligations towards her. That's how I feel about it now.

But just this week completely out of the blue my mother emailed me saying that she is wants to start repaying the debt. She asked how much of it is left and to give her my bank account number. She also said she's sorry (I think it's the first time she said that... I may be wrong, I was fairly shellshocked when it happened and didn't register many things around).

My first reaction is just to tell her to forget it. I moved on, I dealt with it, the last thing I want is to drag it all out again. In practical terms the debt was created so long ago, in a different country, I was on a salary I now earn multiples of - so even though it took me a long time to pay it off and caused terrible hardship, in today's money it would only be maybe two monthly paychecks to me, unless I charge her interest or something. She's still in our home country and her salary must be rather modest so it would have caused her some hardship to pay it off while making not much difference to me. I don't really trust her with paying the installments either, she made promises before. But most of all I honestly just don't want to go back there, the mere thought of trawling through old documents or emails makes me shudder. I am also comfortable with the level of contact that we have and don't want to get involved with her any more than that.

My OH says it's up to me. He dislikes my mother (understandably, he was there to pick up the pieces) and he says that we could always use some money but not at the cost of my peace of mind (he's a dote).

Oh god, what an essay! So my question is - would it be naive or mature to tell her that I accept the apology but she can forget the debt?

Big Bag of Chips

Your heart, and gut seem to be telling you to forget it. So I'd go with that.

On a side note, after all that she did, I'd be wary of giving her my bank details anyway!

Good luck to you, you sound very level headed and honest in your post. And as you say, life turned out pretty ok for you. I admire your attitude!

The Lovely Muffin

If I was in your position OP, I would tell your mother that while you accept her apology you don't want anything from her and you don't want any further contact with her.

If my mother put me through everything your mother has put you through I would never have anything to do with her. Harsh maybe, but she walked out on your and your siblings, caused you great stress, grief, financial trouble, forged your signature on documents, affected your credit rating etc. I personally wouldn't even entertain the idea of her becoming a part of my life again, I just would not be able to trust her after everything she put you through.

woodchuck

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

On a side note, after all that she did, I'd be wary of giving her my bank details anyway!

My thoughts exactly! IF you decide to take her up on her offer, be very very careful about the information you give her. A cheque might be more secure as she wouldn't need your bank details (unless she doesn't have and you don't want her to have your address)

If the amount of money she owes really isn't worth that much to you these days then it's probably better to go with your gut and not get involved in all that hassle again.

Morag

Set up a credit union/bank account just for that and nothing else and let her lodge the money into that and keep it completely separate form your other accounts. Let her try and pay it back, don't let her set any conditions what so ever. End a letter with the account number and if she manages to pay it, fair enough.

Agent J

I must admit i'm highly skeptical of why she wants to start paying you now. Frankly i suspect you aren't getting the full story. However in your situation i wouldn't be interested in hearing it.

Blood isn't thicker than water. If she really wants to then you could suggest she pay it directly to some sort of charity & leave you out of it.

Make sure any action you decide to take is because you want to.
Don't allow her to pay you back because you feel sorry for her. You have the full right & entitlement to tell her to get stuffed.

tbh

you and your OH sound exactly like the kind of people I'd be proud to call my friends. I think how you dealt with the whole situation is admirable in the extreme, and I think you should be very proud of yourself and all you've accomplished.

I also think you should at least give your mother the opportunity to make amends.

If I were you, I would tell her that you'd love to be able to rebuild your relationship (she is your mother after all) but you'll do it on your terms.
If it were me, I wouldn't be interested in repayments, at least not drip-drip.

I would say: the first stage in us rebuilding our relationship is for me to know that you're serious about this. One way you can show me you are serious is to commit to paying back the money, and then actually doing it. So, she sets up a bank account, she makes the payments into that, and then she gives you all the money in one go, and then, and only then, will you be prepared to take any further steps.

Could be she does it in five weeks, could be it takes her five years, could be she never does it. No skin off your nose - well, no more skin than you've already lost. If she makes the payments, and comes to you and says "here it is" - you know her intentions are good. Otherwise, there is a risk that she makes one or two payments and decides that that should be enough for you, and you get pissed off all over again.

The way I see it, there are two ends of the scale here: on one end, your mother is truly sorry and is genuinely trying to make amends.

On the other, it's a notion in her head that she *should* make amends, but she doesn't really think that she's done anything *that* bad and isn't really that bothered about it.

if it's the former, then wouldn't you like to give her that chance?
If it's the latter, then you'll find out soon enough.

tl/dr: Save up the money, show me you're committed and then we can start to talk about everything else.

Taltos

Another way to look at it - if you received an email from the Government of a foreign nation detailing you won the lottery - they just need your bank account - what would you do....

Personally OP I think having written it off you are better off never revisiting it or her. I would change all contact details and never respond in any way.

Chances are she is only looking to con you again. Leopards and spots and all.

Neyite

Would it be possible that she heard through the family grapevine that you and your siblings are doing well for yourselves now, and wants to ingrate herself so that she can get more money out of you? I'd be too wary about giving my bank details, given the history

What you said here is what I would reply to her:

wrote:

I also had a thought about how I believe that children should support their parents in their old age if needed, and that my mother just collected her dues early (and by force) so this ends my obligations towards her.

If she really wants to make amends, she could send a cheque for the amount she owes and let you decide whether to lodge it or not or to cash it and donate to somwhere like St Vincent De Paul.

forgetornot

forgetornot wrote: »

.....and to give her my bank account number.

As soon as I read those words, I thought........




RUN AWAY! :eek:



(Lest anyone think I'm being flippant, I'm not. I'm deadly serious.)

The_fever

I would tell her to give it to charity.

LegacyUser

Thank you very much guys, you are helping lots. I would thank your every post if I could!

To give you some more information, I don't think she's out to con me. She was not a crook per se and not sneaky by nature; she was just very weak and irresponsible, the kind of person who will kick the can down the road until the bottom falls off, then will panic and do moronic things. She was also very spoilt in her childhood and so always expected others to sort out her problems for her. In her country knowing someone's account number gives you nothing as there are other checks in place; I would not give her my main number anyway. The signature trick worked only once :>

Through the grapevine (she made amends with my uncle, who also lost money to her, but apparently could afford it) I heard that her new husband is reasonably well off, nothing fancy but certainly not starving, and she was looking for a job in her profession which should make her situation fairly stable if she found it. So I guess she may well be genuine if this worked out and she is now in a better place in her life; or perhaps it didn't, and she's trying to ingratiate herself with her children again. But even if she has good intentions there is still the question if I want to have anything to do with her.

tbh, I think you solved the issue for me. Your solution is very generous but still practical; I read through all suggestions from you guys taking them in but when I spent time on yours I just felt that something in me resists this idea so much that I would not be able to go ahead with it. Even the thought about engaging with her in any meaningful way feels so wrong. I will absolutely be civil with her, though, if (or rather when - weddings, funerals...) I meet her again; but I will treat her like a distant relative whom you always acknowledge, offer a drink, have a brief chat with, but you don't volunteer any deeply personal information and do not depend on them in any way. If somehow it improves from there then it will but I feel it's too far gone...

Thank you for your messages of support too. I don't think I ever told the full story to anyone outside my close family; reading it back now I see how much hurt it all caused and how much work we put in to come out of it. You're validating these choices somehow. Thank you for this.

Please feel free to throw in further thoughts if you have any. I promised myself to hold off at least until the weekend with any reply; if I was to forgo the debt and cap the contact at where it is now it would close the issue in my mind for good and so I want to be sure I considered all the angles. But yeah, I think this is what makes sense. I like the charity idea a lot but I don't think she's the kind of person to go with it, I may suggest it still and then it's up to her.

tbh

forgetornot wrote: »

tbh, I think you solved the issue for me. Your solution is very generous but still practical; I read through all suggestions from you guys taking them in but when I spent time on yours I just felt that something in me resists this idea so much that I would not be able to go ahead with it. Even the thought about engaging with her in any meaningful way feels so wrong. I will absolutely be civil with her, though, if (or rather when - weddings, funerals...) I meet her again; but I will treat her like a distant relative whom you always acknowledge, offer a drink, have a brief chat with, but you don't volunteer any deeply personal information and do not depend on them in any way. If somehow it improves from there then it will but I feel it's too far gone...

totally understandable, and I doubt anyone would condemn you for that. Before you make up your mind forever tho, think about how you'd feel if, god (with a small g) forbid she was killed in a car crash tomorrow. Would you regret not taking the chance to put things right?

Killed By Death

OP, I agree with everyone else saying don't engage with her. I'd be VERY wary of taking any money from her because I'd be worried she'd somehow swindled or frauded it out of her new husband.

As others said let her pay it back into an empty account if she wishes but don't let her think this makes everything ok or that she can start being in your life again.

She put you through a lot and has a lot to prove. Swindling your money is the least of what she did. The emotional damage and stress and disappointment of realising your parent is toxic are much worse wrongs she has done to you. Those things would take her a lifetime to atone for. Simple fiscal renumeration can't do that.

I wish you all the best.

Lollymcd

OP you are a very generous and forgiving person, I only hope I would be the same in your situation.

Just a thought, if I did what your mother did on a daughter of mine I would be mortified, I would not be able to meet her eye to eye, talk to her or suggest a repayment.

What I would do is open a savings account and save money myself, I would not approach my daughter until I had the full amount I owed her to hand over.

Just a thought.

qwertytlk

God, what an awful thing for a mother to do to their child. I agree with most of what other posters said so i won't repeat it again but just wanted to say that clearly we all know (including you) that your mother is manipulative and will do pretty much anything to get what she wants. So if you do agree to have her pay the debt i would make sure you do it in a way that gives her no access to your personal bank information (as you said she asked for your bank acc number in the email) i know things are alot stricter with banks, loans and that type of thing but i still would not trust her with any of this type of info if i were you so if you do agree to let her pay it off then i would make sure you do it by something like her sending you a postal order or a cheque or western union etc.
I understand you just wat to leave the past in the past and have thankfully moved on from that whole sorry situation, but if it were me i would probably agree to accept the payments via one of the methods i mentioned. Afterall you went through hell over that debt, even if the money wouldn't seem a large sum now you still deserve it back,i dont know how long ago it was but you could add interest to make it up to what the equivalent would be nowadays. And it doesn't mean you have to have her back in your life if you dont want to either.
Best of luck with whatever you decide.