Are APOEL an inspiration for all of us smaller leagues?

legendary.xix

The minnows are through to the Champions League quarter-finals! Started their CL adventure in mid-July like Shamrock Rovers. Years back Cork City knocked Cyprus' champions out of Europe. APOEL are heroes for all the lower leagues of Europe. Hats off to APOEL!

Orando Broom

legendary.xix wrote: »

The minnows are through to the Champions League quarter-finals! Started their CL adventure in mid-July like Shamrock Rovers. Years back Cork City knocked Cyprus' champions out of Europe. APOEL are heroes for all the lower leagues of Europe. Hats off to APOEL!

I know nothing about them but the make up of thier team struck me as the handy work of a millionaire benefactor.

Of course they are still minnows but perhaps not as minnow-y was we'd like to believe.

I am totally open to correction on this. I am just speculating.

Personally I think Rovers in the Europa was a bigger fairytale.

stovelid

Think I read somewhere that their wage bill is around 7 or 8 million? If so, that seriously dwarves the equivalant spend of any LOI club.

I assume they have backer(s).

They are to be applauded for punching above their weight but most of the time, your long-term progress is proportional to your resources and no club with budget of around 10% of theirs is going to make the quarter finals of a major European competition.

mike65

Tremedjeus stuff, not forgetting Baal/Basel are still in the competition a goal to the good. Though it has to be noted even Cyprus and Switzerlands domestic best are a level above Shamrock Rovers etc. APOEL have been in CL Group Stages twice in the last 3 years.

legendary.xix

True they are well backed but they've earned money from previous European exploits as well and are getting good crowds in the national stadium for these games.

Some facts:
CL 06/07
Cork City beat Apollon Limassol 2-1 on aggregate in the first qualifying round. Murphy and Gamble were sent off after the final whistle and were a big loss for the next round when Cork bowed out against Red Star Belgrage. Now Red Star were always going to be tough but I've always believed had the two players not been sent off, Cork could've caused an upset. The reward would've been a tie against AC Milan, who eventually went on to win the competition. Would've been some story for Cork if AC Milan had come to the city on their way to a European Cup. Alas it was not meant to be.


CL 07/08
APOEL beaten 2-3 agg. against BATE in the first qualifying round. In the same round, Derry go down to Pyunik 0-2 agg.


CL 08/09
Anorthosis of Cyprus beat Pyunik Yerevan 3-0 agg. and Rapid Wien 4-3 agg in the second qualifying round. Drogheda meanwhile are desperately unlucky not to knockout Dynamo Kiev in the same round.
In the third qualifying round Anorthosis beat Olympiacos 3-1 agg.
They went on to finish last in Group B but pick up a win and three draws.


CL 09/10
APOEL make Group D, getting 3 draws but no wins, finishing 4th.
Bohs were knocked out in the second qualifying round.


CL 10/11
Omonia get to the third qualifying round, beaten 2-5 agg. by Red Bull Salzburg.
Boh out by TNS in the second qualifying round.


CL 11/12
APOEL start off in the same round as Rovers and have made it all the way to the quarter-finals.
In the Europa League AEK Larnaca finished 4th in Group J but at least won a game and drew two.

meriwether

A big inspiration to smaller clubs in Europe such as Shamrock Rovers, Liverpool, et al.

cson

meriwether wrote: »

A big inspiration to smaller clubs in Europe such as Shamrock Rovers, Liverpool, et al.

And Arsenal!

We haven't made the quarters in 2 years now :P

Raskolnikov

http://www.footytube.com/news/guardian/apoel-nicosias-champions-league-run-is-not-all-down-to-michel-platini-L15234?ref=art_relart_bottom

Jovanovic's total annual budget, covering transfer fees and wages, is about £7m.

....

Aílton, Apoel's record signing and key striker, was lured from Copenhagen by Jovanovic for around £800,000

In terms of budget, Shamrock Rovers are as comparable to Nicosia as Nicosia would be to Spurs.

Shamrock Rovers yearly budget - €600k.
APOEL Nicosia budget - £7m.
Spurs budget - £70m.
Man City budget - £130m.

I am pie

APOEL get an average home gate of 20k+ , in a country of only 1m people this is a great achievement.

No LoI club can touch that in terms of a matchday revenue stream.

The club was effectively privatised in 1996 with a start up capital of 600k which isn't massive.

It's true that APOEL have a greater operating capital but they have built it up on the back of home support that most Irish clubs can only dream about.

legendary.xix

I think the best an LoI club can hope to achieve in terms of crowds would be 10k-12k in regular support but even that's a long way off currently, but achievable for some clubs. For the popularity of the game, Dublin should be capable of two clubs like that, so too Cork and possibly Limerick. Takes a lot of work though, not just wishful thinking and a lot of work within communities and progression in terms of performance, European e.g. getting to play-off stage at least being a good benchmark.

Orando Broom

I am pie wrote: »

APOEL get an average home gate of 20k+ , in a country of only 1m people this is a great achievement.

No LoI club can touch that in terms of a matchday revenue stream.

The club was effectively privatised in 1996 with a start up capital of 600k which isn't massive.

It's true that APOEL have a greater operating capital but they have built it up on the back of home support that most Irish clubs can only dream about.

Who are the current All Cyprus champions in Hurling and football?

how are they doing in the Rugby?

LOI has to be put in context that it operates in a very, very small market. I would say as small as Luxembourg and such like.


Rovers doing what they did is huge. I would say that if the LOI could put a representative into the Euyropa League group stages every three years that would be absolutely massive.

legendary.xix

Orando Broom wrote: »

Who are the current All Cyprus champions in Hurling and football?

how are they doing in the Rugby?

LOI has to be put in context that it operates in a very, very small market. I would say as small as Luxembourg and such like.


Rovers doing what they did is huge. I would say that if the LOI could put a representative into the Euyropa League group stages every three years that would be absolutely massive.

I'd agree with that, just adding we need at least one club getting to the play-off round every year, knocking on the door of the group stages. Sometimes like Rovers they'll get through but a result like that of last year in Belgrade won't happen every year.

And note: In the Europa League this season, AEK Larnaca of Cyprus finished 4th in Group J but at least won a game and drew two.

gustavo

Orando Broom wrote: »

LOI has to be put in context that it operates in a very, very small market. I would say as small as Luxembourg and such like.

Disagree - I think the number of people who would consider themselves football fans in Ireland would be far greater than the same in Luxumbourg

stovelid

While it would be nice to progress like that, it's not of fundamental importance. Sometimes we fall into the trap of thinking our league will never be right if it's not like across the English Channel.

Given the, er, challenges, facing the game here, attendances for the top clubs of maybe 10k should be what we should aim for and perhaps the limit of how much the league will grow.

The days of 20-30k attendances here are gone forever imo. Not only because of our proximity to England but the whole way in which football is being consumed now.

legendary.xix

Agreed with that. I don't see the need for too many comparisons to what's happening across the water. If a few more clubs get their houses in order, Cork seem to be back on track, Limerick are on the cusp of Premier and a new ground, the league can get to a decent level. 20-30k won't happen as said. 10k would be decent for 6-8 clubs.

CSF

I really don't understand how APOEL Nicosia have any relation to the League Of Ireland. When someone pumps enough money into one of our clubs to create a 7 million yearly budget, maybe then we can begin to draw comparisons.

Until then, it is a lazy comparison, putting the apples of one country with small population and football clubs most of the posters know very little about, against the oranges of another country with very small population and footall clubs know very little about.

This is hardly a rags to riches story relative to what a LOI team making the quarters of the Champions League would be. Fair play to them and all considering the other teams in the quarters will all have probably ten times their budget, but I don't understand where the LOI comes into all of this, other than being another league that is a bit of an unknown to most people watching the Champions League.

legendary.xix

CSF wrote: »

I really don't understand how APOEL Nicosia have any relation to the League Of Ireland. When someone pumps enough money into one of our clubs to create a 7 million yearly budget, maybe then we can begin to draw comparisons.

Until then, it is a lazy comparison, putting the apples of one country with small population and football clubs most of the posters know very little about, against the oranges of another country with very small population and footall clubs know very little about.

This is hardly a rags to riches story relative to what a LOI team making the quarters of the Champions League would be. Fair play to them and all considering the other teams in the quarters will all have probably ten times their budget, but I don't understand where the LOI comes into all of this, other than being another league that is a bit of an unknown to most people watching the Champions League.

The question was simple asked: "Are APOEL an inspiration for all of us smaller leagues?" All input is welcome!

CSF

legendary.xix wrote: »

The question was simple asked: "Are APOEL an inspiration for all of us smaller leagues?" All input is welcome!

I didn't make any reference to the thread title.

dan1895

To answer the op's question, yes they are but so much would have to fall into place for a loi side to replicate APOEL did. Investors, fans going to games and the media giving a damn.

legendary.xix

CSF wrote: »

I didn't make any reference to the thread title.

You didn't but it is the question being asked. No lazy reference is being made comparing APOEL to the LoI, the question has been thrown to create a wider debate and not solely focussed on APOEL's millions.

CSF

legendary.xix wrote: »

You didn't but it is the question being asked. No lazy reference is being made comparing APOEL to the LoI, the question has been thrown to create a wider debate and not solely focussed on APOEL's millions.

Any reference comparing APOEL Nicosia to the LOI is lazy. Apples and oranges.

I am pie

CSF wrote: »

Any reference comparing APOEL Nicosia to the LOI is lazy. Apples and oranges.

It's comparing European football team to European football team surely.

losthorizon

I am pie wrote: »

APOEL get an average home gate of 20k+ , in a country of only 1m people this is a great achievement.

Highly Questionable!!

Source!

From Wikipedia

Because "During 2009–10 season APOEL sold in total 244,977 tickets for its home matches in all competitions (Championship, Cup, Champions League), which is the biggest number of tickets sold by a Cypriot club in a single season." That could be 20 - 25 games which is an average of less than 10,000.

If you take away CL it must be even less. Cypriot League games are very badly attended.

In the main Cypriot teams have very bad records against LOI teams.

If a LOI team was drawn against a Cypriot team in Europe I woudn't bet against the Irish team.

eire4

While compared to LOI teams budgets Apoel are in a league of their own they still are an inspiriation to smaller clubs. I mean come on to make the Quarter-finals of the Champions League on a 7m annual budget that is peanuts compared to teams coming from any of the big 5 leagues in Europe and the bigger clubs from smaller leagues. Well done to them. What they have accomplished is trememdous.

losthorizon

CSF wrote: »

I really don't understand how APOEL Nicosia have any relation to the League Of Ireland. When someone pumps enough money into one of our clubs to create a 7 million yearly budget, maybe then we can begin to draw comparisons.

Until then, it is a lazy comparison, putting the apples of one country with small population and football clubs most of the posters know very little about, against the oranges of another country with very small population and footall clubs know very little about.

This is hardly a rags to riches story relative to what a LOI team making the quarters of the Champions League would be. Fair play to them and all considering the other teams in the quarters will all have probably ten times their budget, but I don't understand where the LOI comes into all of this, other than being another league that is a bit of an unknown to most people watching the Champions League.

Er, for those of us who go to games maybe Cypriot teams are not unknown. They have have played on and off in Ireland down through the years.

TaosHum

Considering most of their side is made up of foreign imports and is bankrolled with some serious financial investment, I dont think they are much of an inspiration to teams from smaller leagues. No doubt they have done excellent and their fans have every right to be excited about the prospect of playing in a CL Quarter final.

But if anything they are a testament that smaller teams can only gain success in Europe through substantial investment. I know we are not talking about Man City type investment, but considering the size of their stadium and league they play in, its alot money.

IMO Rosenbourg in the late 90's were more of an inspiration.

CiaranC

I am pie wrote: »

APOEL get an average home gate of 20k+ , in a country of only 1m people this is a great achievement.

Wiki says their record season average is 9418.

Making the quarters on a budget of 7m is fantastic, but still miles above anything an LOI club could achieve at present

Rhys Essien

If only an Irish club could do it

http://socqer.com/questions/1303/how-much-money-does-a-team-make-from-qualifying-for-the-champions-league-andor-europa-league-respectively/

dreamers75

i wish we got a team from Cyprus in Europe

legendary.xix

A lot has been made money of them being bank rolled but they've earned money from previous European campaigns as well e.g. '09/'10 CL group stages.

Anorthosis were in the CL group stages in '08/'09. AEK Larnaca finished 4th in Group J but at least won a game and drew two in this seasons Europa League. APOEL haven't been the only coub doing well in Europe but have been by far the best.

Regards Ireland and the LoI, it's disappointing this year Derry have been excluded for next season. Sligo and Derry seemed capable of being able to get to a level where they can compete in the Europa League play-offs and possibly make the group stages as well. They competed well last season with Shamrock Rovers.

dreamers75

legendary.xix wrote: »

Regards Ireland and the LoI, it's disappointing this year Derry have been excluded for next season. Sligo and Derry seemed capable of being able to get to a level where they can compete in the Europa League play-offs and possibly make the group stages as well. They competed well last season with Shamrock Rovers.

You left out the best ever LOI club in China/Russia Europe

CiaranC

Rhys Essien wrote: »

If only an Irish club could do it

http://socqer.com/questions/1303/how-much-money-does-a-team-make-from-qualifying-for-the-champions-league-andor-europa-league-respectively/

It would be a big boost to that club long term if that money was invested right, but dont kid yourself that crowds would swell immediately. Todays barstool fans are not interested in supporting live football week in week out at any level.

CSF

dreamers75 wrote: »

You left out the best ever LOI club in China/Russia Europe

The idea that any Irish club is at the level to be qualifying for European group stages is a bit mad for me. I can't help but think that Shamrock Rovers was a one-off (not a fluke, because they 100% deserved it) that won't be repeated for some time.

losthorizon

legendary.xix wrote: »

A lot has been made money of them being bank rolled but they've earned money from previous European campaigns as well e.g. '09/'10 CL group stages.

Anorthosis were in the CL group stages in '08/'09. AEK Larnaca finished 4th in Group J but at least won a game and drew two in this seasons Europa League. APOEL haven't been the only coub doing well in Europe but have been by far the best.

Regards Ireland and the LoI, it's disappointing this year Derry have been excluded for next season. Sligo and Derry seemed capable of being able to get to a level where they can compete in the Europa League play-offs and possibly make the group stages as well. They competed well last season with Shamrock Rovers.

Rovers as we all know qualified for the group stages of the Europa League but the LOI holds the record for the biggest jump up the co-efficiency table by any nation in the last ten years.

For a league that used to be down with Luxembourg and Malta in the bottom three or four its actually amazing where its dragged itself up to despite all its problems.

legendary.xix

CSF wrote: »

The idea that any Irish club is at the level to be qualifying for European group stages is a bit mad for me. I can't help but think that Shamrock Rovers was a one-off (not a fluke, because they 100% deserved it) that won't be repeated for some time.

I welcome this opportunity to elaborate. The win over in Belgrade won't happen every year. It's not too far from being repeated though. If you look at the season before, Bohs were knocked out by TNS in what was a terrible result. TNS after defeat to Anderlecht went out to CSKA Sofia in the Europa League play-off. I was convinced after season, if Bohs hadn't suffered that shock in Wales, they might have had a better chance against the likes of CSKA Sofia. I reckoned the same of Rovers and they actually backed up what I believed last year, that they'd compete in the play-off anyways, that they won, was a shock.

Getting back to the point I meant to make. I don't see LoI clubs making group stages every year. Rovers could well lose their opening Champions League tie this year and there'll be no European adventure at all. At the same time though, I've been impressed by the progress of Sligo and Derry. How they get on over the next few months with new managers, we'll have to wait and see. Derry unfortunately are excluded this year but Sligo if they can stay at a level where they have been can look to do a bit better in Europe, maybe play-offs at best?

dreamers75

CSF wrote: »

The idea that any Irish club is at the level to be qualifying for European group stages is a bit mad for me. I can't help but think that Shamrock Rovers was a one-off (not a fluke, because they 100% deserved it) that won't be repeated for some time.

I agree, we win our 2 rounds then get the ****tiest draw fcuking ever in the playoff round. The teams in that round are just too good and we have been raped by them 3 times oddly Karpaty the best team i have ever seen rape us and they lowest ranking one.

My passport has stamps on it fcuking stamps!!!

And by ****tiest not even a trip to Amsterdam, we get fcuking mongolia or some shít. I dream of the day we get Ajax, its a marriage made in heaven.

legendary.xix

losthorizon wrote: »

Rovers as we all know qualified for the group stages of the Europa League but the LOI holds the record for the biggest jump up the co-efficiency table by any nation in the last ten years.

For a league that used to be down with Luxembourg and Malta in the bottom three or four its actually amazing where its dragged itself up to despite all its problems.

Our clubs have done ok at a certain level. Our league champions should be capable more seasons than not of making the Europa League play-offs. Bohs messed up their chance away in Wales but Rovers grabbed their chance. In the next 3-4 years, I don't think Sligo and Derry can be discounted in making more of an impact. It's hard to judge the rest. Cork and Shels are great additions back into the Premier this year. It'll be interesting to see how they get on.

losthorizon

Personally I love going to different nations. I remember Cork City played Ekranas from Lithuania. I asked someone over there what does Ekranas mean. "Light Bulb" was the answer. They were a company team

We switched them off though!

Zebra3

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Shamrock Rovers yearly budget - €600k.

:D:D:D That's priceless. :pac:

legendary.xix wrote: »

Regards Ireland and the LoI, it's disappointing this year Derry have been excluded for next season.

It's not disappointing at all. It's called fitting punishment.

citytillidie

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's not disappointing at all. It's called fitting punishment.

Maybe fitting punishment as its a new team, but i see UEFA have not taken the points Derry got from reaching the 1st round proper of the Uefa cup in the 2006-07 season from the League of Ireland ranking.

Without that run teams the next year would not have been seeded in the early draws helping the ranking more.

legendary.xix

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's not disappointing at all. It's called fitting punishment.

In that respect yes but it'll have been better for the league to have it's better clubs in Europe.

Balmed Out

Definately an inspiration, but they are a big step up in standard. That said when cork beat limassol that team were also meant to be funded by some millionaire with a load of foreign players. Had a long conversation in some pub at the time with supporters of other cypriot teams. Limassol had apparently players from all over including a pole and a hungarian who both had international caps.

legendary.xix

Cork missed out on a great chance that year to give Red Star Belgrade a good game. The two lads sent off after the final whistle in Cyprus ended any chance Cork had. An opportunity to have played AC Milan would've been massive.

Wanders_fan

legendary.xix wrote: »

Limerick are on the cusp of Premier and a new ground, the league can get to a decent level. 20-30k won't happen as said. 10k would be decent for 6-8 clubs.

Limerick are you joking? The city is Rugby mad. I was a t Cardiff Munster a few weeks ago and it was a less than half full stadium. This was a cheap ticket in nice weather for a successful European team with Internationals playing. I can't see Limerick ever hitting average attendances of 10k. Maybe 5K if they compete well in the League.

(from wiki)Population (2006)[3]
• Urban 90,757

So you expect about 11% of the city to turn up to games? Even giving the away team a support of 1K its still 10% of the city. Thats a massive ask when you consider all the women and children who aren't traditional live soccer fans

Nuri Sahin

gustavo

Wanders_fan wrote: »

So you expect about 11% of the city to turn up to games? Even giving the away team a support of 1K its still 10% of the city. Thats a massive ask when you consider all the women and children who aren't traditional live soccer fans

That's a new one on me "live soccer fans"

The figures you quote are for the city only - Presumably Limerick would hope to gain support county wide

legendary.xix

gustavo wrote: »

That's a new one on me "live soccer fans"

The figures you quote are for the city only - Presumably Limerick would hope to gain support county wide

Nearby counties then as well without a club. Good market to tap into. Moving to their spiritual home of the Markets Field should be a help.

Some in Limerick are still disillusioned though. Goes back to the club being renamed at one stage to Limerick City, you can imagine how that went down in county Limerick. People have long memories.

stovelid

Rovers acquitted themselves OK in the qualifying rounds last year. It's handy because the LOI team is a peak fitness while the teams you are playing are not.

The group stage games were a different kettle of fish with better teams that were into the stride of their seasons. At times the difference was scary even though we still did OK.

You don't acquire that level of player by chance, you pay for them. And pay well.

Zebra3

citytillidie wrote: »

Maybe fitting punishment as its a new team, but i see UEFA have not taken the points Derry got from reaching the 1st round proper of the Uefa cup in the 2006-07 season from the League of Ireland ranking.

Without that run teams the next year would not have been seeded in the early draws helping the ranking more.

Are you encouraging cheating?

legendary.xix wrote: »

In that respect yes but it'll have been better for the league to have it's better clubs in Europe.

It's better for the League if in the long run cheating is not allowed to prosper or be encouraged.

Pity Delaney and Gavin don't see it that way. :rolleyes:

Balmed Out

stovelid wrote: »

It's handy because the LOI team is a peak fitness while the teams you are playing are not.

The group stage games were a different kettle of fish with better teams that were into the stride of their seasons.

Thats very true, we have a big advantage against teams who play the standard season.

losthorizon

stovelid wrote: »

Rovers acquitted themselves OK in the qualifying rounds last year. It's handy because the LOI team is a peak fitness while the teams you are playing are not.

That actually isnt true - the reverse was the case!

In the Europa League we are in the Northern Section so we play by and large teams who play the same season as us or teams who start in July and have a huge mid season break.

If you get by a few rounds it doesnt become regionalised and by then those team are into their season.

Rovers had finished their season by the end of the group section in the Euopa league and were playing friendlies. Its a problem that plagues Russian and Eastern European teams all the time. I'm just glad we';re getting to experience it - stop knocking it.

The CL is different OK but Rovers met all Summer playing Leagues.

Pats met all Summer playing league due to Regionalisation. Slligo started so late in the competition it didnt matter who they met as all leagues were running. Bohs mets a country who start early because they have a huge mid winter break.

When I first started going to the LOI the league used to be the latest starting league in Europe - no one made excuses for the league then and I bet you wouldnt have either.