FETAC LEVEL 5 - Word Processing

apkmbarry

Is it required to use a double space after every full stop?

I've been told it is, but we have nearly completed all of our assignments, and I haven't done it.
For one, I didn't remember being told, and two was that not ruled out when we moved onto computer systems? I know it was used on a typewriter, but I've never known it to be used on a computer?

Thanks

Cliona99

I did this course and we did not have to do it. I've heard of it, but never done it in any job/course/exam.

gozunda

Standard usage (UK & IRL etc) is TWO spaces after a Full Stop at the end of a sentence.

Typing whether using a Typewriter or PC has not changed.

The use of other punctuation symbols normally involves the insertion of one space only.

FETAC Level 5 is L.C. Level so I would think that such basic punctuation knowledge would be expected.

For MSWord Level 5 - I believe this should be essential imo.

Check your course guideline or with a tutor for full details for submitting course assignments.

If required you can use MSWords Find & Replace facility to correct and replace all occurences (accidental or otherwise) of a Full Stop followed by single space .

looksee

Typing on a fixed space typewriter, yes you leave 2 spaces. On a computer however you leave one space.

Typesetters leave one space and if you did a typesetting job and left two spaces you would have the job back to put it right.

There is really no reason to differentiate between typing a letter and any other job, the computer adjusts spacing to make it look right with one space.

Many of the people who teach typing were themselves taught in the days of manual typewriters, and the two space rule is still taught, regardless of technological progress. As a person who has worked on both manual and electric typewriters as a secretary, on electronic typesetting and computer graphic design and also as a Fetac teacher, I am familiar with all the options.

Some people are going to tell you that you have to use two spaces. I am telling you you do not. Its a gamble whether you get a Fetac examiner and extern who are still in the dark ages, or not.

gozunda

With a typewriter you hit the space bar twice and got two spaces
With a PC you hit the space bar and still get two spaces
Both are based on the qwerty keyboard....nothing there has changed

A 'computer' does not 'adjust'. The 'Justification' and Align functions in word processing programs, are completely different functions to manual spacing. The computer 'program" helps the user for example to Justify a document, but the control of spaces before, after and during punctuation is a user function and requires prior knowledge. You can choose to ignore spacing just the same way you can choose to ignore correct spelling. Put in one space after a full stop in MSWord and it will always looke like one space.

Technological progress has meant a move from typewriters to PCs but not the rewriting of the norms and rules of Punctuatation. There is a lot of rubbish published on the web about the rule of spacing having changed, which it has not. In the US they never had this rule and it would now appear to have somehow became somehow translated on this side of the Atlantic....

looksee

gozunda wrote: »

With a typewriter you hit the space bar twice and got two spaces
With a PC you hit the space bar and still get two spaces
Both are based on the qwerty keyboard....nothing there has changed

A 'computer' does not 'adjust'. The 'Justification' and Align functions in word processing programs, are completely different functions to manual spacing. The computer 'program" help the user for example to Justify a document, but the control of spaces before, after and during punctuation is a user function and requires prior knowledge. You can choose to ignore spacing just the same way you can choose to ignore correct spelling. Put in one space after a full stop in MSWord and it will always looke like one space.

Technological progress has meant a move from typewriters to PCs but not the rewriting of the norms and rules of Punctuatation. There is a lot of rubbish published on the web about the rule of spacing having changed, which it has not. In the US they never had this rule and it would now appear to have somehow became somehow translated on this side of the Atlantic....

Accepted, adjust was the wrong word to use. I was referring to kerning, which the computer does do automatically, and as a result the type, which is not fixed spacing, looks pleasing. It does not adjust the spacing inserted by hitting the space bar.

Apart from that, there is no point pursuing this argument as we are on opposite sides of it and, while professional typesetters never use double spaces after full stops, a lot of other people do because that is what they have been taught.

gozunda

looksee wrote: »

Accepted, adjust was the wrong word to use. I was referring to kerning, which the computer does do automatically, and as a result the type, which is not fixed spacing, looks pleasing. It does not adjust the spacing inserted by hitting the space bar.

Apart from that, there is no point pursuing this argument as we are on opposite sides of it and, while professional typesetters never use double spaces after full stops, a lot of other people do because that is what they have been taught.

You are correct about the kerning of letters, Modern fonts types are designed so that spaces between individual letters within a given word look correct to the eye.

The reasons that typesetters never traditionally used double spaces after full stops (and were the exception to the rule) goes back to when paper was expensive and space in newspapers and other publications was at a premium. Less space wasted equalled more news print and more money.

I would suggest however if the OP has been told to use double spaces after full stops and that there are FETAC examiners who expect this then it would be advisable for the OP to do just that...

looksee

On a scale of what is important in the world this is probably off the bottom of the scale! I did a quick survey in the staff room this morning and they were all 2 space people, though the main argument was that whatever you did, be consistent about it. I guess this is the best advice, and so long as you don't do this ,it doesn't really matter.

gozunda

looksee wrote: »

On a scale of what is important in the world this is probably off the bottom of the scale! I did a quick survey in the staff room this morning and they were all 2 space people, though the main argument was that whatever you did, be consistent about it. I guess this is the best advice, and so long as you don't do this ,it doesn't really matter.

I accept your point about consistency of use, however as FETAC Level 5 is often the next stepping stone to further study, I would suggest that students are encouraged to adopt standard usage. Universities and third level colleges will insist on an accepted standard of correct grammar, spelling, and word usage and will mark all work submitted for assessment accordingly. The correct use of these elements of composition by students at Level 5 will make their transition to the next chosen level of study much easier and will also give these students an advantage over others with a less firm grasp of the essentials. Success at this level is often crucial to success in a chosen field and later career prospects

looksee

Well if you are going to pursue the education theme, academic papers submitted for publication will be refused with double spaces after a full stop.

I just did a quick and fairly unscientific survey via google and in the first two pages that came up on the search 'double space full stop' I could not find one article that concluded that the double space was 'correct'.

gozunda

looksee wrote: »

Well if you are going to pursue the education theme, academic papers submitted for publication will be refused with double spaces after a full stop.
I just did a quick and fairly unscientific survey via google and in the first two pages that came up on the search 'double space full stop' I could not find one article that concluded that the double space was 'correct'.

At which point we are back to typesetting (ie publication). As already given this is the exception to the rule due to historic antecedence. Where academic papers are published in peer reviewed periodicals or journals then this usage will not be relevant to the majority of students undertaking everyday assignment work as part of their third level course work imo.

Where students go on to produce academic papers for publication I would presume that their knowledge of where and how punctuation is to be used would be of a similar standard.

The original point of this thread I believe concerned FETAC Level 5 and the standard use of Punctuation. Level 5 should help students to make that springboard to the next level, and in doing so bringing with them an accepted standard of correct punctuation, grammar, spelling, and word usage.

I would liken it to choosing to drive either on the right or left side of the road. Either may be perfectly acceptable in different countries but you cannot have individuals driving on both the left AND right sides in the same country as it will simply lead to chaos...(and I am not in any way indicating that punctuation is as serious as potential RTAs)

Unfortunately Google suffers from a surfeit of Americanisms including their own take on punctuation - The Wiki article on same includes two references on the use of Full Stops, both of which hail from the far side of the Atlantic :pac:

Nadser

I teach word processing at Level 5 and instruct students to always leave two spaces between sentences. I remind them of the extra space they left between sentences when they started to write in primary school. If they do not, they will lose marks in their exam. I would always use two spaces for any document e.g. business letter, academic paper etc. Documents that do not look extremely odd in my opinion and are an indication that the writer is sloppy and does not pay due attention to their work.

gozunda

The use of two spaces also has relevance to public speaking. The two spaces after a full stop indicates a longer pause for the speaker than that given by a comma etc. This longer pause copies speech pattern and signifies the end of a sentence. Two spaces may be compared to a double beat /and pause in the stead of the single beat / brief interruption if that makes sense!