Germany Customs Seize

achieve

I came across this post / link re: a potentially worrying development in Germany. Netherlands have already banned the sale of eLiquid.

Google Vertaling

Google Translation below

Medicines e-cigarette? Crackdown on importers

Customs seized Liquids


Raids at Liquid-direct importers of e-cigarettes: Federal Ministry of Health classifies electronic cigarettes as a drug substitute

04/03/2012

According to some estimates now 1.2 million people in Germany regularly use the electronic cigarette, also referred to as "e-cigarette". On the Internet there are real "fan bases" formed to exchange information regularly on utility, benefits, and the current day's events around the topic of e-cigarette. Authorities and health officials warn against the dangers of consumerism, however, although the e-cigarettes are actually less harmful than conventional cigarettes. Therefore, they suggest, "it was a campaign by the tobacco industry under way" to stop the spread of electrical appliances. At Frankfurt airport, a cargo from China were seized and three dealers in raids carried out subsequently.

There are not many studies on the ingredients and effects are examined more closely. Those who have already started initial investigations come to the unanimous conclusion that the health disadvantages compared to conventional tobacco smoke can be classified as rather low. Very reason many former tobacco use, especially on the E-cigarette smoking and nicotine vaporize rather, that is classified only in very high doses as dangerous as the human organism capable of degrading the neurotoxin in a relatively short time. In contrast, the traditional burning of thousands of tobacco released toxins that cause cancer are in the majority and long-term strain on the cardiovascular system difficult. The results: lung cancer, pancreatic cancer , heart attack , stroke and high blood pressure . Actually, it could breathe a sigh of health policy, if one ex-smokers are now trying to stop smoking with the e-cigarette. But the German bureaucracy sees the e-cigarette a drug that should not be sold commercially.

So far, no known prohibit negative effects of e-cigarette
The US-American Health and Drug Administration criticized the fact that the alkaloid may contain residues of harmful toxins. Yet in cigarettes these substances are usually present in much higher concentrations. In the U.S. journal "Tobacco Control", a new California study has been published. The researchers complained that some acquired cartridge could leak. After use, this could "still contain traces of nicotine." The used cartridges with minimal nicotine content access when disposing in the trash. Other negative effects could account for the research consortium, however.

It followed, however, that classify health experts, politicians and authorities, the electronic cigarette is now similar to drugs such as nicotine patches. Therefore likely to retailers without pharmacies license products or services not freely available. Who does it still to be reckoned with heavy fines, suspended sentences or even up to one year in prison because of breaches of the Medicines Act in force in Germany.

Seizure by customs and police raids on dealers
Until recently, the assumptions of the government employees and politicians were not put into action. But it seems that the times would be on storm: The person responsible for the cargo airport Frankfurt prosecutors last week seized more claims to be "wrongly declared liquid bottle from China." A total of 30 criminal cases were launched against suspected persons involved. Following undertaken under the supervision of the prosecutor, the police now three raids on dealers in North Rhine-Westphalia, Baden-Wuerttemberg and Lower Saxony.

The customs investigation in the Lower Saxony capital of Hanover, who undertook the raids in Wunstorf announced: "The confiscated liquid containers are examined in the laboratory." So far, but am not yet clear whether the Labour Inspectorate carries out the investigation or the drug office in Bremen, northern. Should be examined according to which criteria the seized bottles, also gave the investigators so far no detailed information. Compared to a dealer, an official had indicated according to unconfirmed information, supposedly so go there "if given nicotine values ​​agree with those who have been recorded."

Lobby group suggested further harassment and search wave
The association of E-cigarette vendors (VDEh) suggested that it not only remains in the three became known publicly searches. Rather, the association estimates that up to 30 raids have taken place in direct importers in Germany or are still taking place.

End of February had started the parliamentary party of the Left a total of 47 questions as part of a "small request to the federal government." In it, the Left Party, for example, asked how the "inhaled substances react in the body during evaporation" or "how much liquid is inhaled for anyway?". The aim of the inquiry was, according to the party to find out, what are the advantages over the conventional Glimmstängeln for the health of consumers. Party leader Gregor Gysi, a lawyer currently representing a distributor of liquid liquids. This rejects the statements of the North Rhine-Westphalian Minister of Health Barbara Steffens (Green), who had recently warned of the dangers of e-cigarettes.

From the responses of the federal government could be inferred that further investigation will be launched in the future and more dealers are searched, so the fear of VDEh. The federal government had invoked in his reply to the estimates of the Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices (BfArM). The dealers in this case would have advertised their products so as to create the impression they are advertised and marketed for smoking cessation. The Association disagrees: In general, e-cigarettes and accessories not as advertised drug. An argument has yet: Many "steamer" say they have filed for the use of electrical equipment a smoking stop. (Sb)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

mo' laws mo' problems

stevenmu

I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to begin some pre-emptive lobbying here before the Joe Duffy brigade flip a coin and decide that they should be banned.

We're at a bit of a crossroads, at the moment vaping is too small to pop up on anybody's radar, so as long as nothing bad happens no one is really going to care. But it's growing ever more popular, especially with disposables popping up in more and more shops. Sooner or later people will start to notice, then if history is anything to go by they were start forming random opinions based on no facts and start campaigning one way or the other. The the politicians will notice and back whatever side is making the most noise.

Worse still, imagine what would happen if some under aged kids started buying them. Lets face it, shops here don't have a great track record of letting a customer's age come between them and some crisp banknotes. At best sale would become as highly regulated as cigarettes (which would include no online selling and no importing).

Legislation and control could come about in one of two ways. 1) A group of civil servants (most likely in the Dept. Health/HSE) could form an opinion, then submit recommendations to their minister. One of the things about civil servants is that they can be quite conservative, and once they form a negative opinion of something it would be very hard to change, so it would be important to get to them first. 2) Some politicians could form an opinion and start it that way. Politicians will, despite the reputation they have, generally try to go for whatever's best for the people. The problem comes about when either it's not very clear what is best and/or if there's a lot of public noisy campaigning.

If I get a chance over the next week or two I might try and draft up some form letters that anybody interested people could send, both to the Dept of Health or HSE, and to their local TDs. Also their are both pro- and anti-smoking groups here in Ireland, if they could possibly both be persuaded to support vaping, that could send a really powerful message.

It could be risky drawing attention to vaping, but at the same time attention will come sooner or later and IMHO it's probably better to come first from vapers putting a positive message across.

achieve

stevenmu wrote: »

I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to begin some pre-emptive lobbying here before the Joe Duffy brigade flip a coin and decide that they should be banned.

We're at a bit of a crossroads, at the moment vaping is too small to pop up on anybody's radar, so as long as nothing bad happens no one is really going to care. But it's growing ever more popular, especially with disposables popping up in more and more shops. Sooner or later people will start to notice, then if history is anything to go by they were start forming random opinions based on no facts and start campaigning one way or the other. The the politicians will notice and back whatever side is making the most noise.

Worse still, imagine what would happen if some under aged kids started buying them. Lets face it, shops here don't have a great track record of letting a customer's age come between them and some crisp banknotes. At best sale would become as highly regulated as cigarettes (which would include no online selling and no importing).

Legislation and control could come about in one of two ways. 1) A group of civil servants (most likely in the Dept. Health/HSE) could form an opinion, then submit recommendations to their minister. One of the things about civil servants is that they can be quite conservative, and once they form a negative opinion of something it would be very hard to change, so it would be important to get to them first. 2) Some politicians could form an opinion and start it that way. Politicians will, despite the reputation they have, generally try to go for whatever's best for the people. The problem comes about when either it's not very clear what is best and/or if there's a lot of public noisy campaigning.

If I get a chance over the next week or two I might try and draft up some form letters that anybody interested people could send, both to the Dept of Health or HSE, and to their local TDs. Also their are both pro- and anti-smoking groups here in Ireland, if they could possibly both be persuaded to support vaping, that could send a really powerful message.

It could be risky drawing attention to vaping, but at the same time attention will come sooner or later and IMHO it's probably better to come first from vapers putting a positive message across.

Very well written reply stevenmu My reply won't be near as good and my excuse is because I'm using mobile version now on my phone.

When I first came across ecigs first on a ryanair flight I thought they were a gimmick & I can easily see where genera public / civil servants would dish them without a second thought. Ecigs are going to grow in popularity possibly even a revolution in the world of smoking. I think we as early users of this alternative should be proactive in our approach. I for one would be delighted if you did a draft. We could all then send our own postive experiences of vaping to ministers, departments, ASH etc

tommy2bad

I'm not sure it makes any difference as the EU will ultimately decide.
And the pharma lobby is strong in the EU not to mention here.
I think ecig are safe as banning batterys is pointless, what is under threat is liquid containing nicotine. The propaganda has accoiated nic with the health implications of smoking in peoples minds and banning it will be easy.
So far Belgium and Holland have banned the sale of liquid with nic, now Germany seems to be going the same way. The UK had moved twords embracing ecigs and look like our best hope. Whatever they do we will do just because of the close proximity thing.
Time to form a user or retailers group and start campaigning. Or at least inquire as to how they are classified at the moment.

Gryzor

In the UK they're fairly organised on this already. They have the ECCA UK, a consumer lobby group, and also ECITA, the trade lobby group. They'll both fight the same fight, maybe from different angles, but they both ultimately want to keep vaping available to consumers etc...

We have nothing on this side of the pond other than, alot of what gets implemented in the UK can often be copied here aswell. Not sure if thats to do with the border between north and south or what. There was a hint before that Ireland may go under the umbrella of the ECCA, but don't think it happened.

Ultimately I think, we have no organised voice here, so pretty much anything can be implemented by the powers that be, without any real resistance. They can spin it anyway they want...

wingnut32

stevenmu wrote: »

I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to begin some pre-emptive lobbying here before the Joe Duffy brigade flip a coin and decide that they should be banned.

We're at a bit of a crossroads, at the moment vaping is too small to pop up on anybody's radar, so as long as nothing bad happens no one is really going to care. But it's growing ever more popular, especially with disposables popping up in more and more shops. Sooner or later people will start to notice, then if history is anything to go by they were start forming random opinions based on no facts and start campaigning one way or the other. The the politicians will notice and back whatever side is making the most noise.

Worse still, imagine what would happen if some under aged kids started buying them. Lets face it, shops here don't have a great track record of letting a customer's age come between them and some crisp banknotes. At best sale would become as highly regulated as cigarettes (which would include no online selling and no importing).

Legislation and control could come about in one of two ways. 1) A group of civil servants (most likely in the Dept. Health/HSE) could form an opinion, then submit recommendations to their minister. One of the things about civil servants is that they can be quite conservative, and once they form a negative opinion of something it would be very hard to change, so it would be important to get to them first. 2) Some politicians could form an opinion and start it that way. Politicians will, despite the reputation they have, generally try to go for whatever's best for the people. The problem comes about when either it's not very clear what is best and/or if there's a lot of public noisy campaigning.

If I get a chance over the next week or two I might try and draft up some form letters that anybody interested people could send, both to the Dept of Health or HSE, and to their local TDs. Also their are both pro- and anti-smoking groups here in Ireland, if they could possibly both be persuaded to support vaping, that could send a really powerful message.

It could be risky drawing attention to vaping, but at the same time attention will come sooner or later and IMHO it's probably better to come first from vapers putting a positive message across.

A TD that I know through a friend is happily using ry4 with a DCC starter kit I gave her! Just waiting to see it being used in the Dail..lol

achieve

Well at least we should have one on side to start with, if needs be. I would love to ask who the TD is, but recognise that this would be a fair question as such.

stevenmu

wingnut32 wrote: »

A TD that I know through a friend is happily using ry4 with a DCC starter kit I gave her! Just waiting to see it being used in the Dail..lol

That is something I'd love to see

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

some good related news

http://ukvapers.com/topic/16598-judge-in-the-netherlands-legalizes-import-and-sale-of-e-cigs-in-the-netherlands/page__pid__260452#entry260452

Today, 13 March 2012 a Judge in The Netherlands has legalized the import and sale of Electronic cigarettes and liquids in The Netherlands in a civil court case 414117/KGAZ 12-209 of the court in 'S-Gravenhage

Furze

Once ecigs impact the Excise take, then importation will be curtailed.

achieve

As things stand, customs can and have added an extra 35% in customs duty and Vat from products imported from China. Doesn't apply to every import, but I think Irish customs are copping on, and realise that they can take in some much need funds to keep this country going.

The main thing from own personal perspective is that they keep allowing the importation, even if there is extra to be paid.

tommy2bad

Hang on, we now add a tariff to stuff from China? Other than garlic that is.
Fortunately the Chinese are not good at English when it comes to contents descriptions.