Disputing warning in Politics

Permabear

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Scofflaw

We'll look - but just to point out that DRP is for disputing bans, whereas disputing a warning or infraction still goes by the old route of PM to the CMods.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Permabear

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nesf

A red card is an infraction, a yellow card is a warning.

Permabear

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Scofflaw

Permabear wrote: »

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No objection - my post was based on seeing thread closures here for threads that dealt with infractions rather than bans. My comments from PM:

Scofflaw wrote:

Hi Permabear,

it does immediately seem the most obvious place to contest any mod action, but the Admins regularly close warning/infraction DRP threads with a note to the effect that it's for bans only.

My own view here is that the warning is merited, on the borderline between an in-thread Mod comment and a yellow card perhaps. A combination of the introduction of Hitler and the pithiness of the comment is what merits it, in a debate that was already fairly heated - it's the kind of comment that invites equally terse replies. Or, to put it another way, it's in the (mild) flamebait category, which we do generally infract or warn for.

Takes us back, I suppose, to the debate about one-liner OPs in the "discussion on the rules" thread - one-liners, while fun to write, and often to read (if one is on the same side), are often primarily point-scoring rather than debate, provoking your opponents to respond in kind.

So I would uphold this, but you're welcome, of course, to second opinions from Dades and nesf.

cordially,
Scofflaw

cordially,
Scofflaw

nesf

My PM from that conversation:

nesf wrote:

I unfortunately agree with Scofflaw, it's borderline but deserved. If I wanted to troll that thread that is exactly what I would do. I don't think you were intentionally trolling or anything but your comment would have that effect on the other side and as such needs to be sanctioned in some way after a specific mod warning trying to calm things down.

I don't think you were intending to cause any trouble but a line in the sand was drawn and you unintentionally crossed over it and had to be warned. Sorry, I understand what you were trying to do but this was the wrong moment to do it in that thread.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Dades

Hi all,

I've followed the PM conversation and this thread, and don't hold a contrary view to the Politics mods here.

nesf summed up how exactly I would see this:

I unfortunately agree with Scofflaw, it's borderline but deserved. If I wanted to troll that thread that is exactly what I would do. I don't think you were intentionally trolling or anything but your comment would have that effect on the other side and as such needs to be sanctioned in some way after a specific mod warning trying to calm things down.

The point being that comments viewed objectively can be seen as inflamatory even if that was never the intention. I trust the mods to know what sort of comments are potential triggers for derails, and having read my fill of DR threads originating in the Politics forum I've seen myself how easily the train can go off the tracks.

So I've no problem with the yellow card in this case.

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Regarding the correct forum for dealing with this, I've always seen this forum as dealing with both cards and bans. However my understanding is that PM with the Mods is understood to be the first course of action, following which a still-disputed infraction can be raised with the CMods/Admins here.

That said, a lot of issues do get sorted out via PM with Mods and CMods, which I guess is preferable, but not compulsory.

Dades

Permabear

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g'em

A yellow card was issued as a warning that further comments in that vein would result in action. I appreciate Permabear that you feel it was a worthwhile and appropriate comment to mirror a user's behaviour or sentiment on a thread but perhaps that type of behaviour regulation is best left to the Mods.

While arguably harsh I see no reason to overturn it and will revert to the knowledge of the local Mods and no less than three CMods on this request.

Closed.

Trojan

My opinion on the general point is that we shouldn't waste valuable volunteer time on doing full DRP for warnings (i.e. yellow cards). DRP takes a lot of time and effort, and warnings are simply not that serious. It's only when there's a large number of yellows - a pattern - that we take any notice of them. I'd also argue that if a user picked up multiple "undeserved" warnings from different mods and forums, that to me flags a communication issue of some kind and the user will almost certainly be getting infractions or bans (which can be DRP'd).

Edit: sorry, g'em, didn't see your close message before posting this