IFI seeks volunteers

Renn

http://www.ifi.ie/2012/03/ifi-seeks-volunteers/

Wow. The cheek of them putting this out there.

Otis Driftwood

Volunteers get to attend free screenings as payment,I dont see what the problem is.

If I had the time to do it I would,as I love the IFI and being up against the likes of Cineworld et al it probably cant afford to pay staff so is asking fans/patrons to help out.

Renn

Screening = 9 euro. So they're being "paid" 3 euro per hour. I'd understand if there was a festival that they needed a hand with but this is totally taking the piss.

And there will be mugs out there who will go for this

aidan_walsh

I also don't see what the problem is. They're calling it what is it, and not a Jobsbridge "learn about cinema" "internship".

johnny_ultimate

Strange that they wouldn't hire someone to do it (wouldn't cost that much to hire someone for eighteen hours a week).

But I can see the other perspective too. Plenty of people out there with time on their hands and a willingness to help out. A way to save money they can put towards other things (new archive etc...). And they don't really hide what it is they're looking for.

An unusual decision, but hey if a handful of people take them up on it then it's a successful one I guess.

keith16

aidan_walsh wrote: »

I also don't see what the problem is. They're calling it what is it, and not a Jobsbridge "learn about cinema" "internship".

The IFI is a fantastic place. I too would love to get an insight into it's inner workings by doing something like this. It really is a great place to go and catch a decent film / drink.

Kinski

keith16 wrote: »

The IFI is a fantastic place.

Not according to someone I know who used to work there...

Renn

Not really a successful one if they're not paying people for what should be a paid job. This sort of **** just drags everyone else down. Even their advertisement states that they're busy - so that means the restaurant/cafe/shop are most likely getting good footfall - so why wouldn't they pay somebody for a few measly hours work per week?

keith16

Kinski wrote: »

Not according to someone I know who used to work there...

It's always the ones that used to work there

johnny_ultimate

Renn wrote: »

Not really a successful one if they're not paying people for what should be a paid job. This sort of **** just drags everyone else down.

It's a volunteer position - no-one is forcing anyone to do anything, so I don't really get who's being dragged down?

We can only speculate as to why this is being done, and as I said it's a strange enough decision. Surely they can afford to hire an extra pair of hands. But if they take on multiple volunteers they can give a few people a bit of work experience and throw a free film into the mix. There's enough people out there doing sweet **** all through no fault of their own, and I can see how this would appeal to them. It's not comparable to some of the more ludicrous, demanding 'internships' out there as mentioned above. Plenty of people will take whatever opportunity they can to 'support the arts' in whatever small way they can. JDIFF gets a silly amount of volunteers each year, and they're all more than happy to do the work for nothing (well, a free film per shift supposedly).

Again, volunteer is the key word here. If they don't get anyone, then it will have been a failure. If they do, it was obviously a good decision.

aidan_walsh

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It's a volunteer position - no-one is forcing anyone to do anything, so I don't really get who's being dragged down?

We can only speculate as to why this is being done, and as I said it's a strange enough decision. Surely they can afford to hire an extra pair of hands. But if they take on multiple volunteers they can give a few people a bit of work experience and throw a free film into the mix. There's enough people out there doing sweet **** all through no fault of their own, and I can see how this would appeal to them. It's not comparable to some of the more ludicrous, demanding 'internships' out there as mentioned above. Plenty of people will take whatever opportunity they can to 'support the arts' in whatever small way they can. JDIFF gets a silly amount of volunteers each year, and they're all more than happy to do the work for nothing (well, a free film per shift supposedly).

Again, volunteer is the key word here. If they don't get anyone, then it will have been a failure. If they do, it was obviously a good decision.

To add to that, according to the description they're looking for very few hours volunteering at indeterminate and (seemingly) infrequent times. Not really worth taking on the full expense of even part time staff for that.

Renn

Who's been dragged down? Probably the people looking for payment for working. I'm not just talking about the IFI here but if this sort of thing becomes a trend then that's pretty damn scary.

There's enough people out there doing sweet **** all through no fault of their own

And they need to be paid, right? So once again, I don't see how this is beneficial to anyone but the IFI.

Kinski

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

It's a volunteer position - no-one is forcing anyone to do anything, so I don't really get who's being dragged down?

Because these sorts of volunteer/unpaid internship positions tend to become barriers to entry into particular industries and professions. I know quite a lot of media graduates who are now competing with each other for unpaid positions in production companies, newspapers, broadcasting organisations, and the like. If you want a career in that area, then you have to "serve your time" as an unpaid doormat first, which is (a) ****ing demeaning, and (b) prevents those who can't afford to live for six months with no income from entering that area. I have no problem with voluntary work for charitable causes, but covering shifts in a popular independent cinema is not like serving soup to the homeless.

Renn

To add to that, according to the description they're looking for very few hours volunteering at indeterminate and (seemingly) infrequent times. Not really worth taking on the full expense of even part time staff for that.

Nope. Looking for people specifically for Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays for two different shifts - 3pm to 6pm and 6pm to 8:30pm.

johnny_ultimate

Sure, people need to get paid, but it reads as if they don't have enough work to justify a position part-time or otherwise. I'm sure they can even get by without the extra hands. But maybe an opportunity to give a few people some work experience is worth something? Maybe so, maybe not.

I'd be the first to bemoan many businesses taking advantage of people's unpaid contributions (I've come up against it personally), and some of the jobridge scams were just idiotic. But the IFI isn't being anything other than completely upfront here, and no-one has to take them up on it if they won't to. I sure as hell won't be volunteering for it (as I'm sure you won't be) but it's hardly a trend, and would be entirely worth complaining about if so.

When they're replacing existing staff with unpaid volunteers, then there's cause for concern.

Renn

When they're replacing existing staff with unpaid volunteers, then there's cause for concern.

They've had ads up in the past few months looking for staff - suddenly they start posting up stuff like this after JDIFF? Something's not right here at all imo...

johnny_ultimate

Renn wrote: »

They've had ads up in the past few months looking for staff - suddenly they start posting up stuff like this after JDIFF? Something's not right here at all imo...

And fair enough, I see where that interpretation is coming from. As I've stated, I'm not fully convinced of the need for this (hard to be convinced by a short paragraph on a website), but on the other hand I can see tangible, non-insidious benefits to both the IFI and potential volunteers. Devil's advocate and all that

Always worth emailing them for clarification if you're particularly concerned.

Renn

Well it popped up on my facebook page so that's how I stumbled across it. Not going to email them myself, I'm sure others have done already.

Fysh

Renn wrote: »

Well it popped up on my facebook page so that's how I stumbled across it. Not going to email them myself, I'm sure others have done already.

So you don't want to ask them why they're doing this, but you're happy to assume the intentions behind the scheme are dubious, and go elsewhere and present that assumption to other folks on a message board?

That doesn't actually do anything to let the IFI know that you, as a potential (and possibly existing regular) customer, don't approve of them doing this.

Given the furore in the UK recently over the government scheme in which people on jobseeker's allowance were being encouraged to join a "voluntary" scheme that appeared to be used by some employers to fill vacancies for paid roles, I can understand how something like this can look suspect. (Though in the IFI's defence, they're being more up-front about this than most companies would be in similar circumstances.)

Assuming this goes ahead, would it be enough to make you boycott the IFI? If you're a reasonably regular patron and feel strongly about it, it's worth your while telling them and/or encouraging others to contact them about it and make their feelings known.

Renn

Well my 'not going to email them myself' was more to do with the idea that this advertisement will be most likely taken down before they get a chance to read it. Enough to boycott the place? Maybe. I've given them enough of my money over the past 5 years and this sort of thing irks me. Know people in there so there's no problem in me bringing it up with them.

unreggd

Reimbursement is a bit lame

You get to sit in on the screening of the night you work, a ticket allowance per shift worked would be better

As mentioned, if someone wants to do it, go for it. Might as well get some cinema experience, and theres always the chance of a paid job via networking

Galvasean

I volunteered there during the Darklight Film festival a couple of years back. Had a great time and got to meet Crispin Glover (the Dad from Back to the Future). From my experience they don't really make the volunteers do much work, more a kind of "Could you give us a quick hand with this for a minute?" kind of thing.
I'm not sure if this is the same sort of thing mind you.

Fysh

Fysh wrote: »

Given the furore in the UK recently over the government scheme in which people on jobseeker's allowance were being encouraged to join a "voluntary" scheme that appeared to be used by some employers to fill vacancies for paid roles, I can understand how something like this can look suspect. (Though in the IFI's defence, they're being more up-front about this than most companies would be in similar circumstances.)

It's happening over here, places like Tesco are now taking on shelf stacking interns for a 9 month period. It's an absolute disgrace whats happening and is taking paying jobs off of people.

As for the IFI, well at least they aren't dressing it up as something it's not. It would be nice if they were paying someone for the job but I guess if its intermediate work with no chance of anything beyond a few hours every week and the volunteer gets to see a few films then someone may find it useful. Be handy for someone doing a media course and needs to do some work experience.

Skinfull

I clicked on this thread expecting to see people gush about being able to watch free IFI flicks for the sake of "ushering" people to see movies. But no, instead I get a bunch of moans and confusion about the "ulterior motives."

WTF?! Volunteers needed. email them or don't. End of.

If I didn't have a full time job I would jump at this! Plenty of students out there, movie buffs with spare time or part time jobs elsewhere. Why not jump on this IFI offer and enjoy some movies.

unreggd

Skinfull wrote: »

I clicked on this thread expecting to see people gush about being able to watch free IFI flicks for the sake of "ushering" people to see movies. But no, instead I get a bunch of moans and confusion about the "ulterior motives."

WTF?! Volunteers needed. email them or don't. End of.

If I didn't have a full time job I would jump at this! Plenty of students out there, movie buffs with spare time or part time jobs elsewhere. Why not jump on this IFI offer and enjoy some movies.

But thats the point

If they have busy periods, then surely they could hire paid staff

Theres no right or wrong answer, but theres no problem discussing it

Fysh

unreggd wrote: »

But thats the point

If they have busy periods, then surely they could hire paid staff

Theres no right or wrong answer, but theres no problem discussing it

Well, not necessarily.

"Busy periods" don't necessarily involve enough uptick in business to require a full shift of a part-time or full-time employee; if you're talking about a small-ish venue where you don't have screenings starting every 20 minutes, the work requiring warm bodies is more likely to be concentrated at particular times (eg the 30 minutes before a given screening starts). If they reckon they need someone there but they're not sure they can justify the overhead of additional part time positions, this is another way of trying to address the situation.

If we're talking 2.5-3 hours of non-stop graft, then yes - a screening later that day seems a poor reimbursement. If, on the other hand, we're talking about half an hour where it's busy and the rest of the time the main contribution from a volunteer is being available (which could well mean "sitting or standing around chatting to someone"), then it's not a given that employing someone on a part-time 18-hours-a-week basis is worth the costs involved.

Finneen

Unpaid scam for removing another dead junkie from their jacks.

unreggd

Fysh wrote: »

Well, not necessarily.

"Busy periods" don't necessarily involve enough uptick in business to require a full shift of a part-time or full-time employee; if you're talking about a small-ish venue where you don't have screenings starting every 20 minutes, the work requiring warm bodies is more likely to be concentrated at particular times (eg the 30 minutes before a given screening starts). If they reckon they need someone there but they're not sure they can justify the overhead of additional part time positions, this is another way of trying to address the situation.

If we're talking 2.5-3 hours of non-stop graft, then yes - a screening later that day seems a poor reimbursement. If, on the other hand, we're talking about half an hour where it's busy and the rest of the time the main contribution from a volunteer is being available (which could well mean "sitting or standing around chatting to someone"), then it's not a given that employing someone on a part-time 18-hours-a-week basis is worth the costs involved.

Well, most part-time contracts are 8 hours flexible

So they could at least pay people for the few hours they're gettin them in, if even to cover any expenses they may have

Asking for volunteers to cover busy periods is basically saying 'we need people to help out for free when our paid staff cant handle the workload'

IMO, anyways

Galvasean

Finneen wrote: »

Unpaid scam for removing another dead junkie from their jacks.

Technocentral

unreggd wrote: »

Well, most part-time contracts are 8 hours flexible

So they could at least pay people for the few hours they're gettin them in, if even to cover any expenses they may have

Asking for volunteers to cover busy periods is basically saying 'we need people to help out for free when our paid staff cant handle the workload'

IMO, anyways

Totally agree, there is a sort of spurious glamour associated with the "arts" (especially film) that attracts some people who will work for nothing, imagine the laughter if an accounting firm or construction company put up similar ads:

"O' Brien's Construction seeks labourers to help build houses at busy times, the position is unpaid but you can mess about on the cranes and cement mixers if they're not been used, in lieu of a salary. Also buckets of steam and left handed screwdrivers will be provided to all volunteers".

Renn

IFI seek more people willing to work for nothing

AnonoBoy

Renn wrote: »

IFI seek more people willing to work for nothing

Well next to nothing. They are offering tickets in exchange for photos.

krudler

Renn wrote: »

IFI seek more people willing to work for nothing

whats the problem? I'd do it if I was living in Dublin, free screenings and the chance to meet some film stars? would happily do it.

Renn

Well it's work. And it looks like it's a regular thing. So yeah, pay someone to do it

Renn

Yeah I know I'm complaining again but just saw this article - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0830/1224323261452.html

So for membership they take in 200,000 a year and in ticket sales they take in nearly 2m annually. Not too shabby, is it?

johnny_ultimate

Again Renn you need to take some sort of action on this since you feel so strongly about it. Complain to them, boycott / cancel your membership, contact a newspaper or consumer publication, make an official complaint (not sure which body you'd go through, but I'm sure there's some employment agency that will try and do something about it)...

Repeatedly bringing it up here isn't going to get you very far, especially if people continue to take up the volunteer positions. No benefit in being passive about it when you clearly feel so disgusted about the situation.

Fysh

Renn wrote: »

Yeah I know I'm complaining again but just saw this article - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0830/1224323261452.html

So for membership they take in 200,000 a year and in ticket sales they take in nearly 2m annually. Not too shabby, is it?

Depends on what their operating costs are, really. Can't really say anything much without putting a figure on them.

You've made it abundantly clear that you have a real problem with this state of affairs, but if all you actually do about it is post in this thread you're basically an internet equivalent of those oul wans who ring Joe Duffy to have a moan about their neighbour's heinous offences against humanityvaguely annoying habits.

Renn

Wait, you mean I'm like everybody else that uses the internet?

I might have boycotted them already. I might have contacted a newspaper about it. I might have complained to them already. Doesn't mean I can't make a post here about it.

johnny_ultimate

Yes you're more than entitled to post about it, but since at last update you also claimed you weren't going to contact them because you assumed somebody else had, and that there was 'maybe' cause for a boycott, was curious to hear if you'd taken any action on it. It's a small enough organisation that I can see something actually being done about it if there's enough complaints / backlash. Especially since they wouldn't be particularly fond of bad publicity given all the 20th anniversary stuff going on at the moment.

Easy to complain about it on here, but it isn't much harder to take the extra step to try and get something done about it. If people are taking up these volunteer offers, then its going to keep happening unless someone tries to counter it.

Fysh

Renn wrote: »

Wait, you mean I'm like everybody else that uses the internet?

I might have boycotted them already. I might have contacted a newspaper about it. I might have complained to them already. Doesn't mean I can't make a post here about it.

If you're going to set your standards and ambitions based on the lowest common denominator as determined by surveying the internet, you're already doing it wrong by being able to use correct spelling and grammar

In terms of wider action, you're not the only person whose posted in this thread who disagrees with the practice. If you have decided to boycott them, contacted the press, or made a complaint, it would help your cause substantially to use this thread as a way of encouraging others to do the same.

I guess what I'm saying is that while I personally disagree with you, it's not only possible but quite easy to take useful and productive action that might effect a change to this situation if you want to do so. It's only marginally more effort to write to the IFI about this, or reach out to the press, or put together a petition that you can circulate to find other like-minded individuals than it is to post on boards.

BigCatInJapan

Plenty of third-level film courses that can give unpaid work placements in the IFI?

Renn

JobBridge Position: Finance and Admin Assistant

FlashD

As with all the JobsBridge positions, anyone who takes up this is effectively saying that their job isn't worth paying, not now, not ever!

It's damaging to their industry, those presently working in the industry and to up and coming graduates.

There are plenty of employers at the very top earning more than their fair share and could well afford to pay a decent wage, but sure why would they bother when they can take advantage of people through a broken system.