Service car or not? Thinking of selling anyway.

olewy

2005 Volvo S40 1.8 S (~160,000KM on the clock)
It's costing me more than I'd like to run. E.g.;

• Road tax: €626 p/y (maybe more next year after a road tax overhall)
• Insurance: ~€500 p/y
• Petrol: inefficient thirsty engine (has a reputation for it).
• Tyres:~€80 per corner (mid-range tyres, e.g. Hancook)
• Servicing: ~€150 (cheapest I've found from an indy)

With increasing petrol & road tax costs & its age & milleage it'll likely continue to cost to me more in the years to come.

Due to recently changed family circumstances I no longer need such a big car (in engine displacement & car size terms). I've been thinking about selling it privately & buying a smaller, cheaper to run, lower milleage, safe & reliable hatchback to reduce my yearly motoring costs. I do small milleage locally & anything from a 1ltr to 1.4ltr would do me fine.

It's NCT'd up to ?/13 & taxed until end of July '12.
It's in need of a service (based when it last had a service, the milleage done since then & some recently noticed dark smoke when in low gear & a slight rattle). I expect it just needs a full oil change but I'm no mechanic.

I know it can take a while to sell a car (especially a pre 2008 inefficient 1.8 petrol) & I'll be using the car here and there while its up for sale so I don't want to do the engine any unecessary damage by not getting it serviced.

But as I'm likely selling it anyway I'd rather not put ~€150 into for a service first.

On the otherhand I realise the lack of a recent service & the dark smoke & slight rattle may make it harder to sell.

Thoughts/advice/opinions welcome on what would make the best financial & overall sense as regards;

• To sell or not to sell?
• If sell; what to buy? I'm thinking a low to mid milleage 2006 & upwards 2nd hand 1.0 to 1.2ltr Japanese/Korean 5dr supermini like a Yaris (though they're pricey used), Suzuki Swift or small family hatch (e.g. 1.4 Focus) from a garage for some warranty/peace of mind.
• To service or not to service if selling?

Me: 64 year old retired female (well, actually I'm not, I'm just posting this on behalf of my ma!)

CiniO

olewy wrote: »

2005 Volvo S40 1.8 S (~160,000KM on the clock)
It's costing me more than I'd like to run. E.g.;

• Road tax: €626 p/y (maybe more next year after a road tax overhall)
• Insurance: ~€500 p/y
• Petrol: inefficient thirsty engine (has a reputation for it).
• Tyres:~€80 per corner (mid-range tyres, e.g. Hancook)
• Servicing: ~€150 (cheapest I've found from an indy)

With increasing petrol & road tax costs & its age & milleage it'll likely continue to cost to me more in the years to come.

Due to recently changed family circumstances I no longer need such a big car (in engine displacement & car size terms). I've been thinking about selling it privately & buying a smaller, cheaper to run, lower milleage, safe & reliable hatchback to reduce my yearly motoring costs. I do small milleage locally & anything from a 1ltr to 1.4ltr would do me fine.

I doubt you can get something which will fulfill highlighted condition.

Pretty much any car smaller that you had, won't be as safe as this Volvo was.

olewy

olewy wrote: »

2005 Volvo S40 1.8 S ...................
It's in need of a service (based when it last had a service, the milleage done since then & some recently noticed dark smoke when in low gear & a slight rattle). I expect it just needs a full oil change but I'm no mechanic.................

I doubt an overdue oil change would create smoke and a rattle tbh. It will be hard to shift a smokey, rattly S40 serviced or not.

olewy

CiniO wrote: »

I doubt you can get something which will fulfill highlighted condition.

Pretty much any car smaller that you had, won't be as safe as this Volvo was.

I realise that, all things considered though a smaller car with a high NCAP rating & plenty of airbags will do me fine. That's why if I'm changing I'd go for as new a car as possible (2006+). The newer the car the better given that cars are in general getting safer as time goes by. A generalisation in a way I know (at the risk of this going OT).

olewy

RoverJames wrote: »

I doubt an overdue oil change would create smoke and a rattle tbh. It will be hard to shift a smokey, rattly S40 serviced or not.

You're probably right. If I get it serviced the mechanic may or may not find something else that needs repair. I guess if there is something found that requires additional expense I can re-evaluate my options & cross that bridge when I come to it.

bazz26

I hope a potential buyer isn't reading this thread.

CiniO

olewy wrote: »

I realise that, all things considered though a smaller car with a high NCAP rating & plenty of airbags will do me fine. That's why if I'm changing I'd go for as new a car as possible (2006+). The newer the car the better given that cars are in general getting safer as time goes by. A generalisation in a way I know (at the risk of this going OT).

We had a discussion about it few weeks ago in another thread.
Generally many people are tempted by high NCAP ratings of recent new cars, but unfortunately they are forgetting about main thing - momentum.
NCAP tests are done pretty much by crashing a car into wall.
In real life, plenty of accidents happens between 2 cars, and in this case, it's the car weight which plays significant role.
F.e. If two cars one weighting 1000kg and another weighting 2000kg will crash head on, results will be comparable to smaller car hitting a wall at 66km/h, while bigger car accident results will be comparable to hitting a wall at 33km/h. Hence then, that in that case, energy released during the accident and causing destruction to the car, will be 4 times bigger for a small car.

Only reason why many new cars, are going well through accidents with older bigger cars, is fact, that new cars weights more than car's used to weight in the past.
20 years ago, small car was usually of a weight of something like 600 - 700kg.
New small cars weigh usually more than 1000kg. That really makes a difference.
However your Volve is pretty heavy already, so I would feel way safer in Volvo, than brand new Micra, C2, or Punto.

olewy

CiniO wrote: »

We had a discussion about it few weeks ago in another thread.......so I would feel way safer in Volvo, than brand new Micra, C2, or Punto.

Good post. Agree with everything you said & it is something that a lot of people probably overlook when considering car changes. I take it on board.

I still think though that given the driving style of the person involved, the fact that most of the driving will be done on short local runs (e.g. to shops & errands on relatively quite suburban roads), rather than at higher speeds on motorways or long distance, the probability of an accident at speed is lower than for the average driver. That said obviously an accident can occur on any road & there are a number of other variables involved (speed of other drivers etc). A newer car (albeit smaller & lighter) car I'm sure will do her fine. If it came to it I'd consider a small family hatch (e.g. 1.4ltr Focus) also.

Right now I just want to look at the figures to see what the financial outlay may be to change & upgrade in years & whether its worth paying the servicing cost now or putting it towards the car change.

olewy

bazz26 wrote: »

I hope a potential buyer isn't reading this thread.

To be honest I wouldn't mind too much. If I'm selling it I'd be open about the condition of the car, service history etc. To not be could be counterproductive for both parties & may delay a sale (not good for me & wastes buyer's time) and/or ensure a buyer comes back beating on my door (not good for anyone). That I don't need the hassle of. If it came to it & work needed to be done on it I'd factor that into the asking price.

CiniO

To be honest it's quite optimistic assumption, that black smoke and rattle will disappear after service. However - everything is possible.
I wouldn't service the car before sale.
If you decide to keep the car, service it, and make sure that everything is all-right with it.

mickdw

CiniO wrote: »

We had a discussion about it few weeks ago in another thread.
Generally many people are tempted by high NCAP ratings of recent new cars, but unfortunately they are forgetting about main thing - momentum.
NCAP tests are done pretty much by crashing a car into wall.
In real life, plenty of accidents happens between 2 cars, and in this case, it's the car weight which plays significant role.
F.e. If two cars one weighting 1000kg and another weighting 2000kg will crash head on, results will be comparable to smaller car hitting a wall at 66km/h, while bigger car accident results will be comparable to hitting a wall at 33km/h. Hence then, that in that case, energy released during the accident and causing destruction to the car, will be 4 times bigger for a small car.

As you say, often forgotten but very valid.
Solution, buy a car thats both new and very large.

Turbulent Bill

CiniO wrote: »

We had a discussion about it few weeks ago in another thread.
Generally many people are tempted by high NCAP ratings of recent new cars, but unfortunately they are forgetting about main thing - momentum.
NCAP tests are done pretty much by crashing a car into wall.
In real life, plenty of accidents happens between 2 cars, and in this case, it's the car weight which plays significant role.
F.e. If two cars one weighting 1000kg and another weighting 2000kg will crash head on, results will be comparable to smaller car hitting a wall at 66km/h, while bigger car accident results will be comparable to hitting a wall at 33km/h. Hence then, that in that case, energy released during the accident and causing destruction to the car, will be 4 times bigger for a small car.

Only reason why many new cars, are going well through accidents with older bigger cars, is fact, that new cars weights more than car's used to weight in the past.
20 years ago, small car was usually of a weight of something like 600 - 700kg.
New small cars weigh usually more than 1000kg. That really makes a difference.
However your Volve is pretty heavy already, so I would feel way safer in Volvo, than brand new Micra, C2, or Punto.

As far as I know the EuroNCAP ratings are only relative within a particular car category, e.g., a 5* supermini is safer than a 4* supermini. The 5* supermini may or may not be safer than a 4* family car or something from another car category.

I was at a talk a few years ago from a road accident investigator, who was asked what he drove - min-90s Volvo estate as far as I remember. All things being equal, it pays to be in the heavier car.

mad muffin

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

As far as I know the EuroNCAP ratings are only relative within a particular car category, e.g., a 5* supermini is safer than a 4* supermini. The 5* supermini may or may not be safer than a 4* family car or something from another car category.

I was at a talk a few years ago from a road accident investigator, who was asked what he drove - min-90s Volvo estate as far as I remember. All things being equal, it pays to be in the heavier car.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77223442&postcount=1143

CiniO

mad muffin wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77223442&postcount=1143

Consider that in that video Modus weights 1170kg, while Volvo 1385kg.

Difference is weight is not that big, and considering lack of basic safety features in volvo (airbags, controlled crush zones, etc), result is pretty obvious.

OP was thinking about Yaris, which weights less than 1000kg.

mad muffin

CiniO wrote: »

Consider that in that video Modus weights 1170kg, while Volvo 1385kg.

Difference is weight is not that big, and considering lack of basic safety features in volvo (airbags, controlled crush zones, etc), result is pretty obvious.

OP was thinking about Yaris, which weights less than 1000kg.

I was just replying to the post where the accident inspector preferred mid 90's volvo's.

olewy

CiniO wrote: »

I wouldn't service the car before sale.

Thanks, appreciate the feedback.
Anybody else? Service or not do you think?

Bigus

olewy wrote: »

Thanks, appreciate the feedback.
Anybody else? Service or not do you think?

I think i'd go for an oil and filter first.

you'll only save about 330 on tax over a 1.4,
feck all on insurance
and work out how much you'll save on fuel if you were lucky enough to get a 20% improvement . Plus you'll pay over the odds for a supermini and get a lot less for the Volvo than you think.... so don't go spending thousands to save hundreds.

mad muffin

I sold two cars recently that needed a service, that I did not service before sale.

I priced them accordingly.

GiftGrub100

If you were buying the car would you prefer it to have been looked after, recently serviced and running well ?

or

being told it has some issues, there is a service due, which may or may not fix the issues.

For the spend of (relatively small amount of money) €150 you get the peace of mind that the car is properly looked after for the person who is using it. From the potential buyers perspective they get to buy a car that appears to have been cared for.

Service the car - Simples.

Beware using NCAP to determine safety, as others have mentioned, not as reliable as you might think.

CiniO

GiftGrub100 wrote: »

If you were buying the car would you prefer it to have been looked after, recently serviced and running well ?

or

being told it has some issues, there is a service due, which may or may not fix the issues.

I would prefer to find a car without issues, but I wouldn't mind if the service was due.
Even more - I would prefer for service to be due, as it's a reason to bargain with a price with seller, and I would do a proper service anyway after buying it, for half a price seller would.

If lack of servicing leads to car having some issues, usually it's to late to just service it to fix that issues.

olewy

Bigus wrote: »

I think i'd go for an oil and filter first.

Thanks, I think I'll phone around for oil & oil filter pricing first. Any idea what kind of money I would be paying in an indy for this?

I have a jack & four 2 tonne axle stands so I guess in theory I could do it myself and save a few bob. I haven't changed the oil or oil filter in a car yet (just brake pads on a K11 Micra!) & getting under a car on axle stands makes me a bit nervous but I might give it a shot.

Bigus wrote: »

I think i'd go for an oil and filter first.
you'll only save about 330 on tax over a 1.4,
feck all on insurance
and work out how much you'll save on fuel if you were lucky enough to get a 20% improvement .

True but still, €330+ per year isn't to be sniffed at. If the road tax system changes next year to a system based on engine size and co2 emissions it'll likely be more next year. Factor in cheaper tyres, cheaper servicing, cheaper running costs in terms of petrol & oil (I didn't mention the 1.8 engine has liked to drink oil from new) and it all adds up. I just need to do the maths on keeping versus changing.

Bigus wrote: »

I think i'd go for an oil and filter first.
Plus you'll pay over the odds for a supermini and get a lot less for the Volvo than you think.... so don't go spending thousands to save hundreds.

True, good advice. The current irish road tax system is one driver (excuse the pun) of this also. I know the S40 isn't worth much. Based on the last time I checked prices of similar specced cars I'm thinking of somewhere between maybe €3k and €4k. Would that be way off??

Turbulent Bill

mad muffin wrote: »

I was just replying to the post where the accident inspector preferred mid 90's volvo's.

TBH the guy was pretty old skool - I think he liked the Volvo for more than its safety!

The point I was trying to get across was that the EuroNCAP figures aren't some absolute measure of safety, just a relative grading of similar-sized cars. If you're looking for absolute safety you need both excellent crash performance/avoidance and decent weight.