Buying Embryos to satrt Pedigree herd

HillFarmer

Hi All,

Just wondering is anyone here experienced in purchasing embryos to breed pedigree cattle.?

I am looking to buy some shorthorn embryos to start a small pegigree herd. I have 5 heifers coming in use in the nest few months and wonder if anyone could recommend a good company to buy from?


I've always liked the beef shorthorn and have deviced they will be the breed of choice. I'm new to pedigree breeding but have been reading up alot of the irish and UK genetics. There is some smashing bulls and DAMS in ireland, but there seems to be more of chocie of very good quality shorthorns in the UK.

Anyone any experience of purchasing embryos and could you recommend a company?

flatout11

it would seem like the best shorthorns are coming from canada at the moment - cnotact bova they source pedigree angus from there,
gouldings used to source a fair few embryos not sure if that line of buisness has continued since she joined ncbc

Muckit

Can I ask why you have decided to go down the ET route? Would it not be easier to buy a good Pedigree shorthorn cow or heifer and get her AI'd yourself?

blue5000

OP why shorthorn? Would agree with post above, Canada is the place to go, look up creekside shorthorns in Canada, let me know how it goes and good luck with them, always thought they were very under rated here.

HillFarmer

Muckit wrote: »

Can I ask why you have decided to go down the ET route? Would it not be easier to buy a good Pedigree shorthorn cow or heifer and get her AI'd yourself?

Good point and if the ET is a non runner thats what I will do.

I just thought it might be a good idea, as you can get top class genetics and maybe also get a different gene pool compared to the current shorthorns for sale in Ireland.

Cheers for th info lads, I'll check out Canada, thinking it would be better as the gene pool over there is bound to be different to here in Ireland.

Just looking at alot of heifers here in Ireland at the moment it seems vast majority are sired by Crega Dice, (Lovely Bull)

HillFarmer

blue5000 wrote: »

OP why shorthorn? Would agree with post above, Canada is the place to go, look up creekside shorthorns in Canada, let me know how it goes and good luck with them, always thought they were very under rated here.

Cheers Blue, always liked the shorthorns, I bought a few weanling heifers last year and have to say they are v healthy animals.
Put out on the hill since purchase and are in Super condition. No nuts, extra feed what so ever.
All bulling at the moment so I must get my skates on

redzerologhlen

HillFarmer wrote: »

Muckit wrote: »

Can I ask why you have decided to go down the ET route? Would it not be easier to buy a good Pedigree shorthorn cow or heifer and get her AI'd yourself?

Good point and if the ET is a non runner thats what I will do.

I just thought it might be a good idea, as you can get top class genetics and maybe also get a different gene pool compared to the current shorthorns for sale in Ireland.

Cheers for th info lads, I'll check out Canada, thinking it would be better as the gene pool over there is bound to be different to here in Ireland.

Just looking at alot of heifers here in Ireland at the moment it seems vast majority are sired by Crega Dice, (Lovely Bull)

Your right about using a new genepool regardless of what breed you use. I find that Charolais in particular but also limo's seem to be working out of a very similar genepool. An awful lot of Charolais seem to have 52 or pirate blood in them at the moment. Don't know much about et but it's meant to be tricky enough to get the heifers right for it and conception rates are only around 50% in optimum conditions I think with frozen eggs. Best of luck whatever route you go anyway and let us know how you get on!!

Muckit

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Don't know much about et but it's meant to be tricky enough to get the heifers right for it and conception rates are only around 50% in optimum conditions I think with frozen eggs. Best of luck whatever route you go anyway and let us know how you get on!!

+1.

This is exactly why I was advising the OP against ET to start off with. ET is not for the faint hearted. It can be very 'hit and miss' and a very costly experience. You are playing around with nature, going more towards the realm of scientist as opposed to farmer. Don't get me wrong, I admire the OP's enthusiasm and research into genetics, but I would hate to see him/her fall at the first hurl.

Farming is first and foremost a practical activity, whether you are a commerical or pedigree breeder. It's about stock husbandry and doing the basics well. There is alot that the OP must learn slowly through practical experience (Pedigree animal nuitrition, herd health, halter training and bull sales avenues) before even contemplating ET IMHO.

Don't run before you can walk OP.

The very best of luck with your new venture.

HillFarmer

Muckit wrote: »

+1.

This is exactly why I was advising the OP against ET to start off with. ET is not for the faint hearted. It can be very 'hit and miss' and a very costly experience. You are playing around with nature, going more towards the realm of scientist as opposed to farmer. Don't get me wrong, I admire the OP's enthusiasm and research into genetics, but I would hate to see him/her fall at the first hurl.

Farming is first and foremost a practical activity, whether you are a commerical or pedigree breeder. It's about stock husbandry and doing the basics well. There is alot that the OP must learn slowly through practical experience (Pedigree animal nuitrition, herd health, halter training and bull sales avenues) before even contemplating ET IMHO.

Don't run before you can walk OP.

The very best of luck with your new venture.

Cheers Muckit

Agree with all your comments. I been farming since i was born, but only recently got my own place.

New to the Pedigree side alright, but its my hobby. I'M
m not expecting to make money out of it.

Got the first quote back today for embryos 800 to 1000 Canadian Dollars

Waiting on the breeding lines from them

redzerologhlen

Muckit wrote: »

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Don't know much about et but it's meant to be tricky enough to get the heifers right for it and conception rates are only around 50% in optimum conditions I think with frozen eggs. Best of luck whatever route you go anyway and let us know how you get on!!

+1.

This is exactly why I was advising the OP against ET to start off with. ET is not for the faint hearted. It can be very 'hit and miss' and a very costly experience. You are playing around with nature, going more towards the realm of scientist as opposed to farmer. Don't get me wrong, I admire the OP's enthusiasm and research into genetics, but I would hate to see him/her fall at the first hurl.

Farming is first and foremost a practical activity, whether you are a commerical or pedigree breeder. It's about stock husbandry and doing the basics well. There is alot that the OP must learn slowly through practical experience (Pedigree animal nuitrition, herd health, halter training and bull sales avenues) before even contemplating ET IMHO.

Don't run before you can walk OP.

The very best of luck with your new venture.

I remember when I was in mountbellew a few years ago there was a lad from outside tuam doing the green cert with me and the were into pedigree bb's. He was telling me one day about a man from up the country who they had got to flush heifers for them and implant the embryos in other heifers and all in all it cost them 6 grand. I couldn't belive it when he told me after that not even one of the heifers they put the embryos into were in calf, some money to be out of pocket!!

Muckit

Many's a well known pedigree herd was started with the purchase of ONE good cow or heifer.

My advice to you would be to buy a good cow or heifer from a well established Irish herd. I'm sure through your study of shorthorn genetics and breeding lines you already have a few herd names in your head. You could buy direct from them, or at a sale. I know little about shorthorn, but more than likely you will be looking at possibly €3000+ for this choice animal.

Once home, it's back to basics. Getting her in calf and getting a LIVE calf from her EVERY YEAR.

The equation is simple:

No calf = no herd growth = no bulls to sell = no €€€€ !!!

It might seem blantly obvious, but all the studying of genetics and trying all the ET in the world is no good if you end up with no calves, or big dead ones!!!

AI should be your first port of call to growing and improving herd size and genetics. I would not consider the ET side of things for at least 5 years or so until you are well established.

You will have plenty more things pedigree wise to occupy your time with in the mean time!

Muckit

If you are intent on sourcing canadian genetics...

Buy an irish bred cow/heifer and IMPORT the AI straws of your choice....

Western Pomise

Would agree with Muckit...start small and build slowly...I know of several Ped Breeders who were doing reasonably well money wise through normal farming practices.....then went the ET route....and have ended up with messed up cows that are cycling irregularly....big dead calves from donor heifirs....etc.

bogman_bass

this guy seems to be doing the business in pedigree circles at the moment

bogman_bass

this guy seems to be doing the business in pedigree circles at the moment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDG3Uc_luM

blue5000

Western Pomise wrote: »

Would agree with Muckit...start small and build slowly...I know of several Ped Breeders who were doing reasonably well money wise through normal farming practices.....then went the ET route....and have ended up with messed up cows that are cycling irregularly....big dead calves from donor heifirs....etc.

Have to disagree. What Canada did for aberdeen angus 20 or more years ago they've managed to do it again for shorthorn. That's just my 2 cents.

maidhc1977

hi hillfarmer, would agree with the others buy a good cow first and build from there, james porter in the north has a great herd, 'uppermill shorthorns' bought entire herd from scotland some of the oldest breeding in the herd. also the west of ireland and clare in particular has some super cows. as regards canadian genetics you can get 'eionmor shorthorn' genetics in ireland some super bulls there, i think james porter supplies these. Owen o neill in bova used to keep shorthorns so might be worth a phone call, i know they have a US bull Koppertop
in the catalogue.
i like the breed myself and will probably buy a good cow once i have the finances in place.
best of luck with what ever route you take

Juniorhurler

redzerologhlen wrote: »

I remember when I was in mountbellew a few years ago there was a lad from outside tuam doing the green cert with me and the were into pedigree bb's. He was telling me one day about a man from up the country who they had got to flush heifers for them and implant the embryos in other heifers and all in all it cost them 6 grand. I couldn't belive it when he told me after that not even one of the heifers they put the embryos into were in calf, some money to be out of pocket!!

That lad is counting the cost of buying the recipient heifers on that job though too. If not he was done. I did a bit of this in the past and had went away from it but flushed a cow again in January. It cost me €300 euros to flush the cow and have the 4 embryos that she produced frozen. It will cost me €60 + VAT to have them implanted whenever I choose along with about €70 per recipient to prepare them (synchronising heat, vaccinations, mineral bolus, feed programme and transporting them to be implanted). Then add in the cost of 2 straws at €40 per straw for the donor cow. €1000 should cover it. From frozen embryos I would have been getting about 65% pregnancies, but as we all know pregnancies are not calves on the ground.

If I were to add the cost of my recipient heifers to this it would be over €5000 as well, but if the embryo does not hold I will still have the heifer to bull or sell.

HillFarmer

maidhc1977 wrote: »

hi hillfarmer, would agree with the others buy a good cow first and build from there, james porter in the north has a great herd, 'uppermill shorthorns' bought entire herd from scotland some of the oldest breeding in the herd. also the west of ireland and clare in particular has some super cows. as regards canadian genetics you can get 'eionmor shorthorn' genetics in ireland some super bulls there, i think james porter supplies these. Owen o neill in bova used to keep shorthorns so might be worth a phone call, i know they have a US bull Koppertop
in the catalogue.
i like the breed myself and will probably buy a good cow once i have the finances in place.
best of luck with what ever route you take

Thanks for the info, Uppermill looks the real deal in quality.

Welcome to boards and thanks for the advice