Chevrolet Volt European car of the year 2012

unkel

In the opinion of the cream of European car journalists.

Bit of a weird choice imho. Electric cars are not the future at least not in the next few decades. The Volt / Ampera have huge safety issues and nobody is buying them, not even with massive susbidies. In fact production of the Volt has just been stopped.

Big Nasty

Big Nasty

LIGHTNING wrote: »

How could the Camero be Euro car of the year considering its only available in LHD

It couldn't but it's a proper Chevy (IMO), and as unkel says nobody is buying the Volt either so it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Sesshoumaru

unkel wrote: »

In the opinion of the cream of European car journalists.

Bit of a weird choice imho. Electric cars are not the future at least not in the next few decades. The Volt / Ampera have huge safety issues and nobody is buying them, not even with massive susbidies. In fact production of the Volt has just been stopped.

Good choice IMO. Electric cars are here now and from several major manufacturers. Breakthroughs are being made in the energy density and cost of batteries as well:

This Monday, California-based Envia Systems made an announcement that could mean big things for the mainstream acceptance of electric vehicles. The company claims to have broken the world record for energy density in a rechargeable lithium-ion cell, with an automotive-grade battery that reportedly has a density of 400 Watt-hours/kilogram (Wh/kg). Not only is that figure two to three times higher than what is currently possible with commercially-available cells, but Envia also claims that its battery should cost less than half the price of existing li-ion batteries.

Testing of the battery was performed by the Electrical Power Systems Department at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Crane, Indiana. The tests were sponsored by ARPA-E (Advanced Research Projects Agency - ENERGY), a division of the U.S. Department of Energy.

http://www.gizmag.com/envia-systems-record-lithium-ion-battery/21653/

http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/smart_grid/article/battery500.html?lnk=ibmhpcs2%2Fsmarter_planet%2Fenergy%2Farticle%2Fbattery_500

When you talk about cost of an EV, we are talking about the cost of the battery pack. The rest of the car does not cost more than the equivalent in an ICE car. Battery costs will continue to drop and I don't think they will be needing a subsidy for much longer.

The Nissan Leaf was the 2011 Euro car of the year. Definitely a fuel efficiency theme going on here

keithclancy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Good choice IMO. Electric cars are here now and from several major manufacturers. Breakthroughs are being made in the energy density and cost of batteries as well:


http://www.gizmag.com/envia-systems-record-lithium-ion-battery/21653/

http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/smart_grid/article/battery500.html?lnk=ibmhpcs2%2Fsmarter_planet%2Fenergy%2Farticle%2Fbattery_500

When you talk about cost of an EV, we are talking about the cost of the battery pack. The rest of the car does not cost more than the equivalent in an ICE car. Battery costs will continue to drop and I don't think they will be needing a subsidy for much longer.

The Nissan Leaf was the 2011 Euro car of the year. Definitely a fuel efficiency theme going on here

Worst choice ever IMO, had a chance to look at it in the Flesh at the IFA in Frankfurt.

Piece of Junk, interior looks cheap and is all shiny plastic.

Has awful problems with relibility aswell.

People are not even buying them here even when you can charge them for free.

Sesshoumaru

keithclancy wrote: »

Worst choice ever IMO, had a chance to look at it in the Flesh at the IFA in Frankfurt.

Piece of Junk, interior looks cheap and is all shiny plastic.

Has awful problems with relibility aswell.

People are not even buying them here even when you can charge them for free.

It's not for sale in Ireland yet... so how can people buy them?

puppetmaster

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It's not for sale in Ireland yet... so how can people buy them?

He means Europe

Sesshoumaru

puppetmaster wrote: »

He means Europe

Didn't have my mind reading hat on :P What I've read online states that deliveries in Europe to customers only started last month. Seems a tad premature to draw any conclusions from that yet.

Tragedy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It's not for sale in Ireland yet... so how can people buy them?

He lives in Netherlands(under his name). Your argument for it being a good choice is spurious, as your reasons for it being a good choice is that "the next generation of electric cars may be usable and cheaper". The next potential generation of cars did not win European Car of the Year 2012

Sesshoumaru

Tragedy wrote: »

He lives in Netherlands(under his name). Your argument for it being a good choice is spurious, as your reasons for it being a good choice is that "the next generation of electric cars may be usable and cheaper". The next potential generation of cars did not win European Car of the Year 2012

Yes thank you, I saw that after puppermaster posted and before you posted.

Also who exactly is this quote from "the next generation of electric cars may be usable and cheaper" ?

I responded to Unkel that I thought Opel Ampera was a good choice. I never said "It is a good choice because...". I just said it was a good choice. The rest of what I posted was in response to the subsidy argument Unkel made. EV's are currently subsidised because of the cost of batteries. I was pointing out verified breakthroughs on cost and energy density for lithium batteries. This is battery technology that may well make it into the Opel Ampera before it is due a model refresh.

I think it is a good choice because I like the technology that makes it happen. It's a useful in-between technology that fills a gap between current pure EV and a regular ICE car. I haven't driven one yet, so I can't comment on whether it has a tacky interior or if it's a "piece of junk" etc. I'll let you know once I've taken one for a test drive!

Tragedy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Yes thank you, I saw that after puppermaster posted and before you posted.

I had the reply open while I was making a cup of tea, no need to get snippy!

Also who exactly is this quote from "the next generation of electric cars may be usable and cheaper" ?

Good choice IMO. Electric cars are here now and from several major manufacturers. Breakthroughs are being made in the energy density and cost of batteries as well:

Energy density = greater range = more usable.
Cost of batteries = cheaper batteries = cheaper EVs.

I don't think it was particularly absurd to assume that the sentences after "good choice IMO" were your reasons for believing it to be a good choice but YMMV.

I think it is a good choice because I like the technology that makes it happen. It's a useful in-between technology that fills a gap between current pure EV and a regular ICE car. I haven't driven one yet, so I can't comment on whether it has a tacky interior or if it's a "piece of junk" etc. I'll let you know once I've taken one for a test drive!

Why is it a useful in-between technology? It is far more expensive than a comparable diesel (or high efficiency petrol), generally has less performance and is far less green when construction and disposal is considered.
In effect, it offers no cost or green advantages over similar cars at the moment.

unkel

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

deliveries in Europe to customers only started last month. Seems a tad premature to draw any conclusions from that yet.

Deliveries in the US started quite some time ago. Sales are way lower than expectations. Nobody is buying them (despite hefty subsidies) and the factory will be closed shortly

And that's in the US, where they do not have fuel efficient diesels to compete with. In fact they have no diesels at all

For sure electric cars have a future if / when batteries are cheaper better and have more capacity. But they've been saying that for over 100 years now and it still hasn't happened

The motoring journos are asleep / dreaming with their picks this year and last...

creedp

unkel wrote: »

Deliveries in the US started quite some time ago. Sales are way lower than expectations. Nobody is buying them (despite hefty subsidies) and the factory will be closed shortly

And that's in the US, where they do not have fuel efficient diesels to compete with. In fact they have no diesels at all

For sure electric cars have a future if / when batteries are cheaper better and have more capacity. But they've been saying that for over 100 years now and it still hasn't happened

The motoring journos are asleep / dreaming with their picks this year and last...

Far be it from me to question the objectivities of the motoring journos but you would have to question why they came to this conclusion .. any non-motoring inducements involved I wonder! Surely one of the criteria for a COTY would be mass appeal ... don't see the Volt performing well against that metric over the next few years

keithclancy

Absolute Junk



Heres me sitting in it.

I think they copied an iPod.

Almost that same as the Chevrolet Cruze and thats a pile of sh1t as well.

For Forks Sake

unkel wrote: »

Deliveries in the US started quite some time ago. Sales are way lower than expectations. Nobody is buying them (despite hefty subsidies) and the factory will be closed shortly

And that's in the US, where they do not have fuel efficient diesels to compete with. In fact they have no diesels at all

For sure electric cars have a future if / when batteries are cheaper better and have more capacity. But they've been saying that for over 100 years now and it still hasn't happened

The motoring journos are asleep / dreaming with their picks this year and last...

Production put on hold due to poor sales: http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/4/2843549/chevy-volt-production-stop-poor-sales-gm

Sesshoumaru

keithclancy wrote: »

Absolute Junk



Heres me sitting in it.

I think they copied an iPod.

Almost that same as the Chevrolet Cruze and thats a pile of sh1t as well.

The colour scheme for the dashboard is quite bad.

Sesshoumaru

Tragedy wrote: »

Why is it a useful in-between technology? It is far more expensive than a comparable diesel (or high efficiency petrol), generally has less performance and is far less green when construction and disposal is considered.
In effect, it offers no cost or green advantages over similar cars at the moment.

People with charging anxiety might consider this over a pure EV. People who make regular short journeys but also have regular long journeys to make and don't want two cars.

We're still in an early adopter phase, iPhone version 1. It's new technology so it costs a lot. There are more criteria for choosing a vehicle beyond cost and green credentials. It's a car that can run on two very different power sources, I think that's cool! Other people want at least a 4 litre V8 petrol. Each person can see something different in a car.

I posted about this Volvo V60 before, Volvo may have gotten this hybrid right compared to the Volt

http://www.topgear.com/uk/volvo/v60/road-test/plug-in-hybrid-driven

Gophur

God be with the days when a "real" car could win the COTY, like 1978!!!

Tragedy

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

People with charging anxiety might consider this over a pure EV. People who make regular short journeys but also have regular long journeys to make and don't want two cars.

We're still in an early adopter phase, iPhone version 1. It's new technology so it costs a lot. There are more criteria for choosing a vehicle beyond cost and green credentials. It's a car that can run on two very different power sources, I think that's cool! Other people want at least a 4 litre V8 petrol. Each person can see something different in a car.

I posted about this Volvo V60 before, Volvo may have gotten this hybrid right compared to the Volt

http://www.topgear.com/uk/volvo/v60/road-test/plug-in-hybrid-driven

While being the first mass produced serial hybrid, I don't think being a technical first is enough to make what otherwise appears to be a mediocre and expensive car 'car of the year'. Maybe if it was the first mass produced, affordable serial hybrid car (as the prius was for power-split technology) it might be deemed worthy.

Personally, I think the Up! is far more interesting from a green/ecological standpoint. Not that I have much interest in that