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External Wall Insulation and Timber Frame Construction

  • 06-03-2012 2:26am
    #1
    R Blighe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭


    Hi

    I'm Currently doing some research into the effects of retrofitting dwellings on internal environmental conditions (mostly internal air quality) I focusing on EWI at the moment and i found that the 18 reg NSAI EWI systems haven't been tested for timber frame or steel frame construction. I have found anecdotal evidence of its use in timber frame (mostly from this site) but no concrete evidence (no pun intended :) ) that its being done.

    Is it allowed under the better home scheme?
    Is there a reason why none of the 18 have been tested ?
    How wide spread is it being used on timber frame construction?
    and is there any negative consequences of its use in frame construction?

    I know thats a lot of questions but any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers


Comments

  • #2
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,555 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Would you not be better in putting the questions to NSAI or DOE?


  • #3
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    R Blighe wrote: »
    Hi

    internal air quality...
    1. EWI... the 18 reg NSAI EWI systems haven't been tested for timber frame or steel frame construction.
    2. I have found anecdotal evidence of its use in timber frame (mostly from this site) but no concrete evidence (no pun intended :) ) that its being done.
    3. Is it allowed under the better home scheme?
    4. Is there a reason why none of the 18 have been tested ?
    5. How wide spread is it being used on timber frame construction?
    6. and is there any negative consequences of its use in frame

    1. tell us more about '18 reg'?
    2. cant find it now, but there was an article in the green building advisor about this. when you say timber frame much of our timber frame has a block out leaf.. so the required cavity would reduce the effectiveness of EWI? is this what your referring to?
    3. 'allowed' is a funny word in a country without any real building control, where self-certification happens on approx 90% of all retro-fit projects. especially where the poor homeowner thinks that the BER assessor is qualified to ensure the correct system is installed.:rolleyes::D
    4. i was under the impression that NSAI testing was commissioned by the manufacturer and quite an expensive process, so i suppose there wasn't the demand (or if the products weren't suitable we'll probably never here about it;)). I think we should tease out 'point 2' - yes it has been used external on breather paper in the states and I believe viking has attempted it here (several more have used a similar system it on roofs). but is it a good idea to have a PIR/PUR system on a timber structure? I'm not convinced
    5. EWI : not very
    6. use in frame - so you mean between studs etc? imo why have a material that does not allow the absorption and realise of moisture beside timber?


    can you clarify what your research is for? as regards air quality - i looked at this in the past. and found that the testing equipment was expensive and the parameters quiet broad. so unless you have a case study (possibly a before and after (which 1-2 year study min) and possibly some private air-monitoring company help, it 'll be a tough thesis. best of luck


  • #4
    R Blighe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭R Blighe


    BryanF wrote: »
    [/LIST]
    1. tell us more about '18 reg'?
    2. cant find it now, but there was an article in the green building advisor about this. when you say timber frame much of our timber frame has a block out leaf.. so the required cavity would reduce the effectiveness of EWI? is this what your referring to?
    3. 'allowed' is a funny word in a country without any real building control, where self-certification happens on approx 90% of all retro-fit projects. especially where the poor homeowner thinks that the BER assessor is qualified to ensure the correct system is installed.:rolleyes::D
    4. i was under the impression that NSAI testing was commissioned by the manufacturer and quite an expensive process, so i suppose there wasn't the demand (or if the products weren't suitable we'll probably never here about it;)). I think we should tease out 'point 2' - yes it has been used external on breather paper in the states and I believe viking has attempted it here (several more have used a similar system it on roofs). but is it a good idea to have a PIR/PUR system on a timber structure? I'm not convinced
    5. EWI : not very
    6. use in frame - so you mean between studs etc? imo why have a material that does not allow the absorption and realise of moisture beside timber?


    can you clarify what your research is for? as regards air quality - i looked at this in the past. and found that the testing equipment was expensive and the parameters quiet broad. so unless you have a case study (possibly a before and after (which 1-2 year study min) and possibly some private air-monitoring company help, it 'll be a tough thesis. best of luck


    Thanks for replying.

    the 18 registered/certified EWI systems by NSAI that are only to be allowed for retrofitting under the better homes scheme. 1st august 2009 SEAI were only allowing systems that NSAI approved to be allowed this eliminated a lot of systems straight away until they were certified.
    within each cert (sample one here) states "The system has not been assessed for use with timber frame or steel frame construction"

    I presume it is referring to timber frame with a block outer leaf as its the most common and majority of regulation/ acceptable building detail do.

    when i refer to external wall insulation i mean insulation that is attached to the external surface i.e block work on a timber frame not within the studs.


    the research I'm doing is for a final year project. the way I'm assessing the impact is with site visual inspection with a few gadgets mostly finding out if it affects moisture levels within the dwelling as this can be linked to mould and dust mites quite easily. I am also doing a hydrothermal software analysis (EN ISO 13788) on dwellings that have and haven't been retrofitted to find out the effects it would have on moisture content and risk of mould. my main two dwellings that i will get the most out of, are dwellings built in the 1950s with single leaf mass concrete with little ventilation and raising damp so far i have found that internal wall insulation fails miserably under nearly all scenarios and building detail.

    Thanks


  • #5
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,555 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    R Blighe wrote: »
    the research I'm doing is for a final year project.
    Sorry but I didn't pick that up from your first post.

    We dont allow surveys, research, college work etc etc on the forum so Im going to have to lock this thread.

    If anyone wishes they can PM you any other comments they may have


This discussion has been closed.
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