Defacto Visa's

elliott550

Hi,

Well been in OZ 5 months now and ive met a great ozzie girl, we wont be parted. I'm 32 so reckon my chance of a 2nd WHV is gone (tho i'm not entirely sure about this - if someone could shed the light that would be great). Anyway she say's she'll keep me in the country on a defacto. Do I have to marry her? I might just anyway, but would it be the best way to get a defacto visa?

I know this is all very hapazard and I could probably find some of te answers my self using google and gettn to old magnifiying glass out for the fine print. But i'm sure plenty using this board have got their defacto, how did it go? Tough to get? What was life like after? I read somewhere that you have to be under ur partners sponsership for 2 years!?!? before you've even half a right over here. Well I could imagine that would shift the power dynamic in a relationship! 'Put the bin out' 'No' 'Put the bin out or i'll have u deported' :-/

Any advice on this subject would be great. We don't live together (yet) cos she's got the kids an all. But we are in business together - although all the money is coming thro on my ABN an i'm paying her cos she's claim'n the brew so its all black.

Anyway aye, any advice, experiences - how was life after defacto? All that time of stuff.

Peace and ****ing

hussey

elliott550 wrote: »

Hi,

Well been in OZ 5 months now and ive met a great ozzie girl, we wont be parted. I'm 32 so reckon my chance of a 2nd WHV is gone (tho i'm not entirely sure about this - if someone could shed the light that would be great).

Yep it's gone

Anyway she say's she'll keep me in the country on a defacto. Do I have to marry her? I might just anyway, but would it be the best way to get a defacto visa?

At the moment 5 months without living together is not enough, PR defacto is a much stricter process than a 457(temp) as you are becoming a resident

Tough to get?

It is a long process, and being honest, you probably won't qualify at the moment
Read immi.gov.au - about parternship visas

I read somewhere that you have to be under ur partners sponsership for 2 years!?!?

You become a temporary resident for 2 years then a full one

Any advice on this subject would be great. We don't live together (yet) cos she's got the kids an all. But we are in business together - although all the money is coming thro on my ABN an i'm paying her cos she's claim'n the brew so its all black.

Business together does not mean anything, it's about a personal relationship ... you'll need things like proof of flights, living together, shared bills, rent etc etc
Apparently photos don't mean anything

Anyway aye, any advice, experiences - how was life after defacto? All that time of stuff.

We can hardly give you advice on your life in the future on a visa you don't have .....

Mellor

You are mixing up a few different visa in that post I think.
You don't have to marry her for a defacto visa. Defacto and marraige by definition are two different things.
Defacto is when you are living as husband and wife, without being formally married.
Marraige is well, married.

Also, the part about under sponsorship for 2 years. Sponsorship is a 457 visa, defacto is different.
I think you refer to the fact that there is a two year trail period. A partner is temporary for 2 years. After which is can be made permanant.

Basically there are different levels of defacto.
Defacto on a 457 - Temporary visa. Low requirements, easy to get.
Defacto on a PR visa. Extra requirements. A bit harder to satisfy.
Defacto with a citizen. Similar to PR defacto requirements.

One of the requirements is that you have been in a relationship for at least 12 months. Also, living together is normally a requirement.
Neither of these are set in stone, but the fact that you don't live together and aren't together 12 months will make it tougher.

See here. Pay attention to the section on waivers
http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/35relationship.htm

Pisco Sour

The process is very strict. Understandably so due to the dishonest people who try to scam the system, but it means that many genuine people could suffer as a result. I could, potentially, find myself in that situation come the end of my 2nd year visa (which expires in December). In the last couple of months I have found an Aussie girlfriend. We met last December, so come the end of my visa we’ll have known each other almost a year, but she was away in Italy for a month soon after we met (though we kept in touch every day) and I will be back home for a month in July/August. We are not living together and that won’t change as she is in final year university and can’t afford to move out of home until she starts working next year. Besides, it is far too soon to even consider living together.

It’s obviously early days with myself so I’m not really thinking about it at all, but if I don’t get sponsored by the end of my 2nd year, and the 2 of us are still together, in a serious relationship, we’ll just be broken up by the Australian government. That’s a bit sh1t to be honest.

Anyway, best not to think about it, and just enjoy each day, and if it’s meant to be things find a way of working out.

csm

Don't confuse the various forms of 'defacto' for visa purposes. The only one relevant to you is the 'defacto with citizen' in mellors list.

Technically the partner visa is a sponsorship visa in that your partner is your sponsor and must provide proof that they can support you for the initial two years. If you're still going out after 2 years then you're made permanent. Yes, they can write to immigration and get you deported during those initial 2 years! My fiancee threatens this regularly...

You won't be eligible for the partner visa based on the info you have given but talk to a migration agent to confirm this (initial consults are generally free). Generally you have to live together for 12 months, but there are exceptions. For example if you had to go home because your WHV expired, but you kept going out with the australian then they would take that into account.

Pisco Sour

The lesson in all of this is don’t fall in love on a WHV, as you will inevitably get your heart broken haha.

Mellor

04072511 wrote: »

It’s obviously early days with myself so I’m not really thinking about it at all, but if I don’t get sponsored by the end of my 2nd year, and the 2 of us are still together, in a serious relationship, we’ll just be broken up by the Australian government. That’s a bit sh1t to be honest. :

I think the best thing in your situation is to use it as your motivation to make sure you get sponsored by an employer. Obviously, it doesn't fall that way for everyone. But if you give it a 100% shot you won't have any regrets.

The same applies for the OP too I suppose.

Pisco Sour

Mellor wrote: »

I think the best thing in your situation is to use it as your motivation to make sure you get sponsored by an employer. Obviously, it doesn't fall that way for everyone. But if you give it a 100% shot you won't have any regrets.

The same applies for the OP too I suppose.

Ah yeh, sure as I said, it’s very early days with myself. Who knows yet whether it will work out long term or not. By December I could be happy to go home. Who knows how it will work out. Just thought I’d post on the thread as the OP’s situation COULD be me in 9 months and it would fairly suck if she ended up being “the one: and I got booted out of the country!

Gardner

Best of luck with it mate! Very long and hard process, word of warning thou would be if you break up you might have to go home.

I got my 856 with a de facto involved. We broke up and now in the process of removing her from the country. Was told at the start that I would find it hard removing her but evidence came to light from her best friend telling me she was cheating on me. Full blown email conversations between both of them stating her plan etc along with a full affidavit from her mate. Called my residency into question also but I have gotten the all clear on that! Got a ban thou from sponsoring someone but in the process now of appealing that as it wasn’t my fault.

Got told by the case officer it’s only a matter of weeks based upon my lawyer’s letter with facts which has been submitted but hopefully you don’t have the same problem as me.

Pisco Sour

Gardner wrote: »

Best of luck with it mate! Very long and hard process, word of warning thou would be if you break up you might have to go home.

I got my 856 with a de facto involved. We broke up and now in the process of removing her from the country. Was told at the start that I would find it hard removing her but evidence came to light from her best friend telling me she was cheating on me. Full blown email conversations between both of them stating her plan etc along with a full affidavit from her mate. Called my residency into question also but I have gotten the all clear on that! Got a ban thou from sponsoring someone but in the process now of appealing that as it wasn’t my fault.

Got told by the case officer it’s only a matter of weeks based upon my lawyer’s letter with facts which has been submitted but hopefully you don’t have the same problem as me.

WTF?

Sounds rough.

Gardner

roughest few months of my life but getting close to the end now so things are looking up!

just said id give you the heads up now and show you what problems that exist when de factos dont work

elliott550

Thanks very much, good few links and anecdotes to digest. My question - if I marry her will that change things. IE are cohabitation and marriage looked on in the same legal light?

Also - and it might be very easy for people to shoot this down - but does anyone know of any situation where by staying illegally to be with the one you love was looked on as extenuating circumstances?

Cheers. My head is melted with this stuff.

Pisco Sour

elliott550 wrote: »

Thanks very much, good few links and anecdotes to digest. My question - if I marry her will that change things. IE are cohabitation and marriage looked on in the same legal light?

An English girl in my athletics club got married to an Aussie guy and she told me it didn't make one bit of difference. Their application went through the same scrutiny as somebody with a defacto.

She did say though that if you have a kid then it makes things easier, so get down to business will ya

elliott550

Sorry to de-rail, still primarily interested in de facto. But, what size does a company have to be in order to sponsor you? Her Da has a small, but global business, how small can a business be yet still allowed to sponsor you? (this is a nuts idea but you have to exhaust your possibilities)

elliott550

Haha, ffs weve only been seeing each other for a few months lol. But recently a mate had to go back simply cos his visa ran out and its really put the ****s up me. Where there's a will there's a way!

Peregrinus

It's not a question of size. Even a very small employer can be a sponsor - if they're willing to do what a sponsor is expected to do.

Different rules apply depending on what exactly your business is and why you want to hire someone from abroad, but if you run a business in Australia and you want to sponsor a foreign employee, you have to meet certain benchmarks regarding the training you give to Australian citizens and permanent residents (as in, they expect to you to be willing to train up locals for the job as well as hiring foreigners). You need to show a good record of hiring local labour, and of non-discriminatory employment practices, and you need to be a reputable busienss - no signficant regulatory non-compliance, investigations, legal actions, insolvencies, etc.

The training benchmarks requirement, in particular, could be a bit of a hurdle for a small business. It's not so much that the training benchmark is particularly onerous, as it can be a hassle to demonstrate that you meet it. (There are a couple of benchmarks, but basically they require you to show that you spend a stated percentage of your payroll on structured learning and development for your Australian citizen/permanent resident workers.)

universe777

OP, I am married to an Australian and came here on a defacto visa.
They don't care whether you are married or not. This is not Ireland. Marriage means not a lot to the Australian govt, it is held in higher regards in Ireland.

As someone already explained don't confuse the various forms of defacto visas.

As you are onshore you are looking at a 820/801 visa.
http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/family-visas-partner.htm

You have a temporary visa for the first 2 years and if the relationship is still ongoing you get permanent residence after that. If the relationship fails before the 2 years you must leave Australia within 28 days.

elliott550

Thank you again. This is seriously complicated i'm looking through your link universe and i'm trying to find stipulations for length of time together, co-habitation, shared fiances etc but I cant seem to find any. Is simply intent to get married and $2000 enough to buy you some time? (even if it is with your girls sword of Damocles above your head for 2 years).

Maybe i'm just tired and can't see it. I think i'll need legal advice on this sooner rather than later, thanks a million for all the help, but i reckon its such a big thing and needs professional advice. Could anyone recommend a good immigration lawyer in Melbourne and perhaps a ball park figure for costs?

Thanks pegerious for your reply I can't see any joy going down that route tbh.

Thanks again

universe777

elliott550 wrote: »

Thank you again. This is seriously complicated i'm looking through your link universe and i'm trying to find stipulations for length of time together, co-habitation, shared fiances etc but I cant seem to find any. Is simply intent to get married and $2000 enough to buy you some time? (even if it is with your girls sword of Damocles above your head for 2 years).

Maybe i'm just tired and can't see it. I think i'll need legal advice on this sooner rather than later, thanks a million for all the help, but i reckon its such a big thing and needs professional advice. Could anyone recommend a good immigration lawyer in Melbourne and perhaps a ball park figure for costs?

Thanks pegerious for your reply I can't see any joy going down that route tbh.

Thanks again

As I was trying to say, you don't need to be married for the 820/801 partner visa. It won't make a difference.
They generally want the 2 of you to be living together for 12 months and have bills, lease agreement to back it up. Joint finances isn't really necessary.
They will want statutory declarations from friends & family to back up your claim that it is a genuine relationship.
You don't need a migration agent or lawyer to apply, it's easy enough just involves compiling paperwork etc.
You may want to consult with a MARA registered migration agent initially to try work around the fact that you are only together 5 months and not living together.

ellaq

There used to be a prospective marriage visa where you had to get married in 6 months. Not sure it is still around.

hussey

ellaq wrote: »

There used to be a prospective marriage visa where you had to get married in 6 months. Not sure it is still around.

Still is, but that is mainly for cultural weddings, like india etc

A few of guys in my company have got them for their wives.

ellaq

I know an irish girl that got one married to a kiwi. Was a number of years ago now though. Everyone I know that met their partner in Australia on a WHV had to leave the country at some point. I did, and my partner came with me to NZ and then to Ireland for a while.

hussey

ellaq wrote: »

I know an irish girl that got one married to a kiwi. Was a number of years ago now though. Everyone I know that met their partner in Australia on a WHV had to leave the country at some point. I did, and my partner came with me to NZ and then to Ireland for a while.

That visa is only a stepping stone, more of a grace period while you apply for partnership PR

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/partners/prospective/300/

Mellor

ellaq wrote: »

There used to be a prospective marriage visa where you had to get married in 6 months. Not sure it is still around.

As mentioned, that visa isn't a route to PR.

It's basically a visa to enter australia and get married. The prospective marraige visa just lets your intentions known. You still apply for a PR liek normal.

elliot550 wrote:

Thank you again. This is seriously complicated i'm looking through your link universe and i'm trying to find stipulations for length of time together, co-habitation, shared fiances etc but I cant seem to find any. Is simply intent to get married and $2000 enough to buy you some time? (even if it is with your girls sword of Damocles above your head for 2 years).

Check the link I gave you earlier. Some bullet points there.

What is the relationship requirement?
Applicants seeking to demonstrate a de facto relationship with their partner must provide evidence that for the period covering at least the twelve months before the visa application is lodged:

•they had a mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all others
•the relationship between them is genuine and continuing
•they live together, or do not live separately and apart, on a permanent basis.

Living together
Living together is regarded as a common element in most on-going relationships. Partners who are currently not living together may be required to demonstrate a high level of proof that they are not living separately and apart on a permanent basis.

What evidence is considered?
It is important that a couple claiming a de facto relationship are able to provide evidence that:

•they have a mutual commitment to a shared life to the exclusion of all others
•the relationship between them is genuine and continuing
•they have been living together or have not been living separately and apart on a permanent basis.
Some of the factors to be considered in deciding whether the partners satisfy the requirement include:

•knowledge of each other's personal circumstances
•financial aspects of the relationship, joint financial commitments such as real estate or other assets and sharing day-to-day household expenses
•the nature of the household, including living arrangements and joint care and responsibility for any children of the relationship
•the social aspects of the relationship, provided in statements (statutory declarations) by friends and acquaintances
•the nature of the commitment, including duration of the relationship, how long the couple has been living together and whether they see the relationship as a long-term one.

Its not easy to get. If it was easy to get PR that way it would be very open to abuse.
You may not like to hear this, but from what you have told us, at the current time you don't qualify for a de facto visa. You have an australian girlfriend, but you are not in a De Facto relationship.
That's not to say that you can't get things in place in time to apply. But it is something I'd start gettign in place asap. It also won't be processed by the time your current visa expires. I'm not sure what the Bridging visa situation is.

WilcoOut

how long does a sponsorship and/or defacto visa take to process?

and what evidence will they look for to prove that infact you are together?

WilcoOut

how long does a sponsorship and/or defacto visa take to process?

and what evidence will they look for to prove that infact you are together?

Mellor

WilcoOut wrote: »

how long does a sponsorship and/or defacto visa take to process?

and what evidence will they look for to prove that infact you are together?

Read the thread. There's different de facto visa.
Evidence they look for was also given.

An application on a 457 might take a week. A PR application mgiht take a year

elliott550

Lots of advice here, i'm not stressing it an workin on my actual relationship. I'm a great believer in if its meant to be it will be.

But when I was, this website proved interesting reading - http://www.immigrationsolutions.com.au/ Seems there's a lot of grey area out there if you have a case an are happy to throw oney at the problem.

Peace.

spudtastic

Hey, I would appreciate any thoughts and help. Im looking to move over to auss on a de facto visa. My girlfiend (Aussie) lived here for about two years but like most there wasn't the work. We have an Irish de facto. I'm just looking for some help or if anyone else is in the same boat. Hope to get over in September,,,is that still possible? Thanks

hussey

spudtastic wrote: »

Hey, I would appreciate any thoughts and help. Im looking to move over to auss on a de facto visa. My girlfiend (Aussie) lived here for about two years but like most there wasn't the work. We have an Irish de facto. I'm just looking for some help or if anyone else is in the same boat. Hope to get over in September,,,is that still possible? Thanks

Sorry can you be more clear, how do you have an Irish defacto? A few years ago defacto in Ireland was near impossible (5 year + relationship )
How long have you being going out, do you live together? Any joint bills, what evidence do you have?
No info is hard to go on.

larsson7

hopefully someone can provide an answer to this...
My girlfriend is being offered the 457 visa but will have the work a few months first on a working holiday, I will then hopefully join her as her partner on the 457.
Will the time apart when she works her preliminary few months and I stay in NZ affect my chances at all? Any lenght of time apart unacceptable?
Will be sure to keep a record of phone calls emails etc and keep the joint account going but other then that any other advise?
cheers

Zambia

What your being offered a 457 but they want you to come over and work on a WHV first? Never heard of that practice. Anyone else heard of that?

mandrake04

Zambia wrote: »

What your being offered a 457 but they want you to come over and work on a WHV first? Never heard of that practice. Anyone else heard of that?

Common enough move actually, as people on a WHV can work out their probation legally.

The biggest problem with employers sponsoring people while overseas is that there is a good chance they are a dud. So asking to do your probation on a WHV and there is no obligation for the employers to pay for their flights home if they turn out to be chocolate teapot.

Peregrinus

1306 wrote: »

. . . We moved to Oz in April 2012- I came on a WHV. I have now gathered all the evidence required - leases, letter from Oz landlord to say living together the first month here, joint bills, joint bank accounts in Oz and Ireland, beneficiaries on each others supers, holiday itineraries as far back as 2009, joint car insurance in Ireland, photos, wedding invitations.. the works. Will also be getting two stat declarations from Ozzies. However we only started living together since we came out here in April. I have some backup of things posted to his address in Ireland so I was going to get his landlord to write a letter saying we were living together in Ireland . . .

If I understand you rightly, the contract between the two bolded sections implies that you are going to lie in connection with your visa application, and furthermore that you are going to ask someone else to lie also.

My apologies if I have picked this up wrongly.

If I’ve picked it up rightly, though, you don’t need me to point out the potential downside. As matters stand, you have a very good chance of qualifying for a visa, even if you may have to wait until next year to complete the 12-month requirement. If you’re detected in any kind of deceit, though, you could bugger that up very seriously.

Talk to a migration agent. My impression is that the de facto visa requirements are fairly stable, plus you have a second string to your bow in the form of your accountancy qualification. It would be a shame to burn all this by being caught out lying in an attempt to avoid what might be a quite illusory fear of a change in the rules which never happens. I certainly wouldn’t tell a lie “just in case” there is some adverse change in December. You’d be exchanging a remote possibility of a problem that might arise for a very real risk that you would have created yourself.

This is a risk you don’t at present need to run at present. You should have some pretty compelling reason before you decide to run it.

Mellor

1306 wrote: »

My boyfriend has PR (subclass 176). We have been going out 3.5 years, however at the time of putting in his 176 application my boyfriend didn't put me as de facto as we basically had no proof of de facto relationship.

However we only started living together since we came out here in April.

What ever you do, don't lie.
From your post, it sounds like you have been going out for 3.5 years but possibly only in a defacto relationship since moving to australia. One element that might push the defacto status back would be the joint insurance. The wedding invites, holidays, photos etc doesn't really mean it was defacto.

AngryHippie

Agree completely with Mellor here, no point in lying as it will just cause you strife down the track.
They do take all sorts of information into account though, from photos, bills, gifts receipts etc, So get as much as you can together from the last 3.5 or 4 years and submit the whole lot, if they don't accept the evidence then you gave it your best shot.

A big part of it comes in your personal statement, which outlines your life together and how you work together as a couple. Even silly little things can make a good impression in that statement, like supporting each other through tough times, or busy times. Just lay it all out, without getting too dramatic, because the person processing it is a human being and you need to convince them of one thing: You are entitled to the visa

Mine took about 2 years to get, but once the initial submission went in, there was a few phonecalls, a little extra evidence and a second federal police clearance cert, and it was all done.

Just be careful, as the bridging visa only allows you to do what your initial visa did, so if you were on a tourist visa, you may not have working or studying rights until its processed.

Peregrinus

Mellor wrote: »

. . . One element that might push the defacto status back would be the joint insurance.

The joint bank accounts might also help.

But the big item of information that's missing is: why weren't you living together when you were in Ireland? Not living together doesn't completely torpedo the twelve-month-relationship requirement, but it's a problem that you won't get around unless you can point to something that prevented your living together - his work; your need to stay at home and care for a sick family member; something like that. If the reason you weren't living together is that the relationship hadn't progressed to that point, that's a problem.

Mellor

Peregrinus wrote: »

The joint bank accounts might also help.

Yeah you're right. I missed that there was a joint bank account in Ireland.

ah sure !

elliott550 wrote: »

Hi,

Well I could imagine that would shift the power dynamic in a relationship! 'Put the bin out' 'No' 'Put the bin out or i'll have u deported' :-/

Going to ask my wife to put the bin out from now on !

katz14

Hoping someone could help me out with this.... I am american and my boyfriend is Irish. I have been here for almost two years as a student and have been with my boyfriend for about 3 years. I have been living with my boyfriend and we will reach the 2 year minimum no problem but the only thing is, I do not have much evidence of it. I have a lease and a couple of bills in our name. I think out landlord is trying to avoid taxes so we just pay him in cash every month and Im not even sure if the lease is legit. Is this going to be an issue with the government? Do they check to see if the lease is legally registered? We share a house with one other roommate because we are trying to save money, I am a student and he is an entry level accountant so we have never really had a reason to open a joint account. Has anyone been is a similar situation or can give any advice! Thanks

oh also how much do solicitors cost and are they worth it?

Canis Lupus

One of you surely has to be Aussie or an Australian citizen before you can apply for defacto relationship... Or am I missing something?

Mellor

This is a forum about australia, best to try a different forum. Legal maybe?

pete4130

Zambia wrote: »

What your being offered a 457 but they want you to come over and work on a WHV first? Never heard of that practice. Anyone else heard of that?

Yep. A canadian guy I worked with had to do it. His company in Canada secured a contract and they didn't have time to organise 457's so he had to arrive on a WHV and then transfer over. So it does happen.