Partner Drinks a Lot

Jelly2

Hello,
I would like to get a man's perspective on this issue please.
I think that my partner drinks too much. He normally has about two cans each evening, and then perhaps a bottle of wine over the weekend, and perhaps another five or six cans. I know that this is well above the recommended weekly limit for men. It worries me that he is storing up health problems for later life. I have tried mentioning this several times, but he always says it's not an issue, and that I shouldn't worry. He gets a bit upset sometimes if I say anything.
Could someone please suggest whether I am worrying without good reason, and perhaps give me some idea how to deal with this?
Thanks.

Otis Driftwood

Moved from tGC.

Jelly2

I see that the query has been moved to relationships. Opinions from women welcome too, but I would especially like to hear from men please.

Chucky the tree

He definitely has a problem. The problem is unless he wants to stop you can't force him

P. Breathnach

I am assuming that you really do know how much he drinks. By Irish standards, what you describe is not heavy drinking, and not wildly over the recommended limits (which are a little on the arbitrary side, anyway). He doesn't drink enough for it to impair his ability for most activities except, possibly, driving some of the time.

What you might be justified in worrying about is whether there is a prospect that his alcohol consumption will increase, that he has established a baseline on which he might build. If it's a pattern he has had for a few years, it's possibly a fair guess that he has found a level that works for him, and that might not change greatly in the future.

I drink a moderate amount most days, because I like wine with a meal. I make it a point to have the occasional alcohol-free day just to be sure that I do not form a habit that I am unable to break. Your partner already knows that you are concerned about his drinking, and does not seem to accept that your worry is justified. I share his view that the amount he drinks is not a real problem, but perhaps you might ask him to reassure you by having an occasional alcohol-free day - and then let him enjoy his bevvies the rest of the time.

OldNotWIse

I wouldn't consider that to be heavy. I think nothing of downing a bottle of wine to myself midweek.

BraziliaNZ

Jelly2 wrote: »

Hello,
I would like to get a man's perspective on this issue please.
I think that my partner drinks too much. He normally has about two cans each evening, and then perhaps a bottle of wine over the weekend, and perhaps another five or six cans. I know that this is well above the recommended weekly limit for men. It worries me that he is storing up health problems for later life. I have tried mentioning this several times, but he always says it's not an issue, and that I shouldn't worry. He gets a bit upset sometimes if I say anything.
Could someone please suggest whether I am worrying without good reason, and perhaps give me some idea how to deal with this?
Thanks.

I would say that's not much really, a beer or two a night is nice, although I try and go a couple of days a week without any. If it's a big issue for you talk to him about it, but compared to a lot of people in Ireland he's doing alright.

cynder

Growing up i wish all my dad had was a couple of cans. He had 3 bottles of sherry every night, or 2 bottles of linden village and a bottle of sherry.

If drinking becomes problematic then its time to worry. Change in personality (aggressive), Drinking to get drunk regularly, not being able to go to work the next morning (more than once a month), not being able to drive the next morning because his over the limit (more than once a week), not being able to do things with the family because he wants to drink, not being able to go a day without a drink.

What Ive mentioned is my own personal view of an alcohol problem within the family, due to having a dad who was an alcoholic. Im female.

If your husband doesn't tick any of those boxes his doing ok. If he ticks more than 2, I would have concerns.

It may be worth having a look on the drink aware website. here: http://www.drinkaware.ie/index.php?sid=11&pid=113

farmchoice

as a man, a married man with kids i dont think its that bad. if he can stop after 2 cans each night then i dont think its a problem. personally i dont drink during the week but would always have 3 or 4 beers on friday night and perhaps a bottle of wine on saturday night or if i go out a few pints. althought last saturday night i had 12 pints and iam still feeling the effects!!

Jelly2

Thanks for all the replies so far. I worry because the overall amount he drinks seems to be over the (admittedly a bit arbitrary) weekly recomendation, so it might not be much 'by Irish standards', but still quite high. He is always able to stop when he wants though, and never seems to mind if he misses a beer for a day or two. I guess this means that he does not need it to function? And he never shows any ill-effects when or after drinking - never aggressive (in fact, the most loving, and good-natured man), ready for work each morning, physically fit etc.
I'm sure that he does not drink any more than I have said, because he is usually with me after work, and is quite open about his liking for a drink (for want of a better description), that is, doesn't seem to feel a need to hide the amount that he drinks.
It's only for his long-term health and my peace of mind - I hate the thought of him not living as long as he might or enjoying good health - that I am a bit anxious. Also, other men in my family do not drink much at all, and have quite the opposite habits. So I have so little to judge my partner's routine against...

LegacyUser

The amount is the concern here. It's the regularity of the drinking that would ring alarm bells. You don't need to be drunk out of your mind to be dependent.
I would try and discuss it with your OH keeping in mind that nothing can be done about it until he realises that it is a problem himself and decides to do something about it.
Not an easy one - Good luck OP.

Honey-ec

Tbh, I think you're getting a little hung up on the recommended number of units per week and are taking it a given that anything over this is automatically going to cause health problems. As others have said, these limits are extremely arbitrary and don't take into account any variations in physique, fitness, health, body fat ratio, gentics etc. etc. between individuals. The recommendations are, of necessity, extremely broad and there is no "one size fits all" approach.

Your husband sounds like he has a perfectly fine relationship with alcohol, imo. I always think it's weird that Irish people (not the OP personally) are quite quick to judge someone who drinks moderately every day, but think it's perfectly fine to be teetotal all week, then go out and get poleaxed in one or two giant sessions at the weekend.

Jelly2

You are right, Honey-Ec; I think that it's a combination of my fixating on the recommended units and coming from a family of quasi-teetotal males that is making me particularly anxious. I never thought about the other factors involved, such as fitness and body fat ratio, at all, and find your mention of these to be somewhat reassuring.

username123

Its not so much the amount its the habitual nature of it thatd worry me.

My own father used to have 2 drinks every evening, and more at the weekends in his early marriage.

He died yellow, not sober for 7 or 8 years, brain damaged, possible undiagnosed colon cancer, weighing 8 stone or so, looking like his was in his 80s (he was in his 60s) and having left a blown apart family years estranged from him reeling from the effects of living with active alcoholism. A number of years before his death my mother had a stroke from the stress and to this day my sibling from whom Im estranged, and I, both show the effects of growing up the adult child of an alcoholic.

So forgive me if my opinion is coloured by my experience but I think he drinks too much. It never healthy to drink every evening.

However, whats more worrying, is not the volume, but the fact that he gets upset if you address it to him. Think about how healthy that is? Whats he getting upset about? A failure to listen to the people who love you express concern about your drinking habits is a worry.

P. Breathnach

username123 wrote: »

Its not so much the amount its the habitual nature of it thatd worry me.

My own father used to have 2 drinks every evening, and more at the weekends in his early marriage.

He died yellow, not sober for 7 or 8 years...

Not every regular moderate drinker becomes an alcoholic.

Jelly2

Thank you for your honesty. I never push it when I say that perhaps he could cut down a bit, because he a) expresses the view that he doesn't drink too much and b) he gets a little bit annoyed and I feel that I'm being the nagging wife. And he is such a great partner overall that I feel it's never worth nagging him about it as I don't want there to be bad feelings about it. But it does mean that my anxiety is never addressed but is just buried for a while until it comes back. The problem is that I'm never sure whether it is justified or not - and the replies in this thread suggest that others have differing views on this too.
I don't know what to do now.

username123

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Not every regular moderate drinker becomes an alcoholic.

You are right of course, and I should have said that. I wouldnt consider 20 cans plus a bottle of wine a week moderate myself though.

username123

Jelly2 wrote: »

Thank you for your honesty. I never push it when I say that perhaps he could cut down a bit, because he a) expresses the view that he doesn't drink too much and b) he gets a little bit annoyed and I feel that I'm being the nagging wife. And he is such a great partner overall that I feel it's never worth nagging him about it as I don't want there to be bad feelings about it. But it does mean that my anxiety is never addressed but is just buried for a while until it comes back. The problem is that I'm never sure whether it is justified or not - and the replies in this thread suggest that others have differing views on this too.
I don't know what to do now.

People will always have differing views on this. You need to decide whats acceptable for you.

Ask him to ask his GP if his health is at risk, I would imagine his GP would be able to make a call on it based on his size, general fitness etc...

It can depend on stage in life as well, people in my social circle drank more in their 20s but with mortgage, kids, etc later on they have all cut back in their 30s and some given up completely for health or other reasons in their 40s.

I think its different for everyone, but whats important is that you can talk to your partner about a genuine concern without feeling like you are nagging him.

Jelly2

Well, it's usually a bit less than that. Ten cans Mon-Fri, four-six (usually four) cans over the weekend, and a bottle of wine (although he often doesn't have a full bottle.

username123

Jelly2 wrote: »

Well, it's usually a bit less than that. Ten cans Mon-Fri, four-six (usually four) cans over the weekend, and a bottle of wine (although he often doesn't have a full bottle.

Sorry, I read it as 4-6 cans a day at the weekend.

Still 14/16 cans and a bottle of wine a week - itd be a lot in my world, but Im sure some people think its normal.

Its certainly a lot of calories just through beer which couldnt be healthy.

Jelly2

I suppose it does amount to a lot of calories but, to be honest, I'm not worried about that at all. He has a physically demanding job, and is pretty active outside work hours too, so the issue of weight gain doesn't look likely to arise. It's just the long-term effect on the liver etc that is the focus of my concern.

username123

Jelly2 wrote: »

It's just the long-term effect on the liver etc that is the focus of my concern.

Then ask his GP, or have him ask his GP. Asking here will get you differing opinions of randomers, some of whom could no doubt do with addressing their own drinking so are likely to be defensive of excessive amounts and some of whom, me included, would think more than 3/4 drinks in a week most weeks is excessive - so the other extreme as it were!

The definitive answer will come from your hubbys GP who will know his medical history, family history, relevant conditions, exact pathology of habitual alcohol use on the liver stats etc...

P. Breathnach

Jelly2 wrote: »

... It's just the long-term effect on the liver etc that is the focus of my concern.

That is not our realm: we are not allowed to discuss medical questions. Even discussing potential alcoholism is pushing a bit at the limits of what is allowable here.

I know where you are coming from with your concern. People from abstemious families do find it difficult to judge what constitutes acceptable moderate drinking.

Jelly2

Yes, I saw your suggestion about that earlier, and it crossed my mind that it would be a good idea. Unfortunately, he hasn't needed to go to a gp since the day I met him, as he seems to have a robust constitution. Maybe that is some evidence in itself. But I might ask my own gp his opinion, even though he wouldn't be able to give an informed opinion without patient notes. Thank you.

woodchuck

Asking the advice of a GP is best the next time either of you are there.

I think you're completely justified to be worried about his long-term health and he shouldn't get upset with you for wanting to discuss it. Could you ask him to compromise and only have one drink every evening instead of two? If it's just a case of wanting something to help him wind down after a long day that should still satisfy his need, but would significantly reduce the amount he consumes each week.

Jelly2

woodchuck wrote: »

Asking the advice of a GP is best the next time either of you are there.

I think you're completely justified to be worried about his long-term health and he shouldn't get upset with you for wanting to discuss it. Could you ask him to compromise and only have one drink every evening instead of two? If it's just a case of wanting something to help him wind down after a long day that should still satisfy his need, but would significantly reduce the amount he consumes each week.

Well, I did try that tactic but no luck! When he (we!) overindulge on holiday or Christmas, I do usually manage to get him to reduce his intake for a week or two in order to recover, but he quickly goes back to the pattern I described above. He just really likes a beer after work and then one at dinner, and is reluctant to break the habit.
He comes from a family that drinks more than my own did/does, so I think he really judges it all very differently from me, and thinks that I am worrying over nothing. His father is old now, but in good health, and has always drunk just as much as my husband. So our criteria for judgement are very different, as my husband sees his father and thinks that he will be just like him.

OldNotWIse

For what its worth, I have often heard it said that it's not necessarily the amount of drink consumed but the attitude to drinking that is a problem. For example, I go out 3/4 nights out of 7 and the remaining 4/3 I would drink at home. MY average intake would be 3 pints of beer and maybe 1 spirit before bed. Not serious binge drinking per say but over the course of a week...a lot. My brother, on the other hand can go weeks even months without drinking but when he does...he doesn't know when to stop. He can have 10 pints and move to vodka and red bull then shots...come home and not even know his own name. On the face of it, someone could say I am an alcoholic because I drink more regularly, but I know when to stop. He doesn't drink that often but when he does it's a problem.

Chucky the tree

Jelly2 wrote: »

Well, I did try that tactic but no luck! When he (we!) overindulge on holiday or Christmas, I do usually manage to get him to reduce his intake for a week or two in order to recover, but he quickly goes back to the pattern I described above. He just really likes a beer after work and then one at dinner, and is reluctant to break the habit.
He comes from a family that drinks more than my own did/does, so I think he really judges it all very differently from me, and thinks that I am worrying over nothing. His father is old now, but in good health, and has always drunk just as much as my husband. So our criteria for judgement are very different, as my husband sees his father and thinks that he will be just like him.

To me that's the biggest worry. If you have kids will you be happy for them to see him drinking every night like he does? I don't think that's a healthy thing for a child to see.

P. Breathnach

Chucky the tree wrote: »

To me that's the biggest worry. If you have kids will you be happy for them to see him drinking every night like he does? I don't think that's a healthy thing for a child to see.

Alcohol is not in itself a bad thing. It is excessive drinking that is bad, be it on the basis of drinking too much every day, or breaking out and binge-drinking from time to time.

The more that Jelly2 tells us about her partner's habit, the more it looks to me as if he is a moderate drinker: a couple of cans most days; a little (not a lot) more at weekends.

If there are children, I would think it actually quite a good thing to have such a role model, much as Jelly2's partner seems to have learned restrained habits from his own father.

squonk

It's more a habit thing with him maybe. I don't know what age your hubby is OP but I know that I regularly drank more in the 20's than I do now in the 30's. I was far more able to do that then as well but time has caught up with me. I know too that I reached a point where I got tired of the hangovers and, in fairness, I personally find that even having one or two makes somewhat of a difference so now I don't really bother. That being said I would maybe sometimes have a bottle of wine over the course of a few hours one night in the weekend. In my case, I moved recently and ended up going out a lot more for a while (which got me sick of the hangovers) and when I was in I couldn't be bothered drinking then. It's all what we get used to doing really. I couldn't be bothered opening a beer for the heck of it mid week now. I think if it's his norm then he'll continue to do that. I would only get concerned if he starts to up it to 3 beers and maybe then to 4 over time. To be honest too OP if you succeed in getting him off beer 100% of the time, he'll take up something else to relax. That might be a good thing or a bad thing. Either way, intake is all relative. To me, your hubby's intake seems high now but if you asked me 10 years ago I'd have been asking you what the hell you were bothered about.

Chucky the tree

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Alcohol is not in itself a bad thing. It is excessive drinking that is bad, be it on the basis of drinking too much every day, or breaking out and binge-drinking from time to time.

The more that Jelly2 tells us about her partner's habit, the more it looks to me as if he is a moderate drinker: a couple of cans most days; a little (not a lot) more at weekends.

If there are children, I would think it actually quite a good thing to have such a role model, much as Jelly2's partner seems to have learned restrained habits from his own father.

I disagree about someone who isn't/can't go for an extended period without alcohol as a good role model. He has about 36 units a week when the recommended is 21, I wouldn't call that restrained.

username123

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Alcohol is not in itself a bad thing. It is excessive drinking that is bad, be it on the basis of drinking too much every day, or breaking out and binge-drinking from time to time.

No its not. Its attitude to alcohol and effect on a persons life. A person can be a very moderate drinker but still have a unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The more that Jelly2 tells us about her partner's habit, the more it looks to me as if he is a moderate drinker: a couple of cans most days; a little (not a lot) more at weekends.

Again, I dont think a couple of cans every day plus 4-6 cans at the weekend plus a bottle of wine is moderate. I understand that 2 drinks at a time is not a lot, and is moderate for a particular day, but the cumulative effect of doing that every day and then more at the weekend is excessive.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If there are children, I would think it actually quite a good thing to have such a role model, much as Jelly2's partner seems to have learned restrained habits from his own father.

I think that children should not be exposed to irresponsible drinking, which is what I would see that level of consumption to be. I dont see how the amounts being talked about can be considered restrained.

johnr1

I'm someone who stopped drinking as it was becoming my main activity outside of work about ten years ago.
I define problem drinking as just that, drinking which causes problems in someone's life. The amount and frequency is not on the same sliding scale as the problems usually.
Example: 1
I know a man who has drank 6-8 pints almost every night of his life, yet he has provided a good home for his family, he is not abusive, he works every day, goes on family days out without drink, his wife and grown children love him to bits. His problem will probably be health, eventually, but he's 65 ish now and still seems healthy enough.

Example 2.
Me when I drank; went out about 3 nights during the week and had 4 to 8 pints, out 1 or 2 nights at the weekend (not Sunday) and had a skinful.

Result for me was missing work or arriving late 3 days a week, arguing with people over stupid crap. Occasional fight. Constant drink driving with occasional ditch meetings on quiet country roads. Constantly broke due to not working my business as I should have. Some people still thinking ten years later that I'm just an asshole. Parents and siblings constantly either worried about me or angry with me.

Spot the difference between these two guys. Which one is the problem drinker?

Plus, (and I don't know why more people don't get this) : If you nag someone about their drinking and it works, - they didn't have a problem to begin with. Stopping drinking is a totally selfish act, people won't do it for their partner, their children, their boss, their country, - in fact, if their dying parent asked them on their deathbed to stop they wouldn't, - unless they love themselves enough to want to.

I wanted more out of life at 28, and I saw what lay ahead for me if I didn't, that's why I stopped.

I doubt given what you've posted if your OH has a problem, but everyone is different, and I ain't no expert.

.

woodchuck

johnr1 wrote: »

I doubt given what you've posted if your OH has a problem, but everyone is different, and I ain't no expert.

I don't think the issue is that he has a 'problem' with drink, it's that the OP is worried about the long term damage it might cause to his health?

Maybe you could suggest that he goes for a general check up every few years? That way if it starts to effect his health he would feel he has a 'real' reason to cut back and you could rest easy knowing that if it is having any effect on his health that it will be caught early enough to be dealt with.

Jelly2

I have delayed posting again for a day or two because I wanted to mull over what people have said. Personally, I still think that, despite my partner's habit not being bad 'by Irish standards', it is still somewhat excessive, and perhaps worrying for his longterm health. I don't think that he has a need to drink per se, but just does it out of habit and because he has usually associated with family and friends that drink quite a lot over the years.
I have decided to reduce my own drinking habits - I do not drink all that much (a bottle of wine over the course of the week usually), but I think that perhaps I contribute to a 'culture' of drinking at home, and it might be a good idea if I make a point of reducing or having 'dry' weeks - perhaps it will make him think that it might be a good idea, and that if we did it together it would be easier. So no 'early weekend' glass of wine on a Thursday night for me for a while!
I am going to take up the suggestion of asking my own doctor about drinking habits, specifically in relation to my partner. Independently of the drinking question, I have been thinking for a while that I might start having a health NCT every year or two, as I move into middle age...I think that I might ask my partner to do the same. It might be difficult enough to get him to agree as (like many men), he never wants to go to the doctor, but it is worth a try.
Again, thank you to everyone for their replies. I feel a bit more purposeful now, and am resolved to do something to allay my concerns.:)

bouncebouncey

A lot of what has been posted has been severely coloured by negative personal experience. Understandably so but it's been pretty heavily slanted.

A few things. The units per week 'limit' is commonly held to be around 20-21 for men. This equates to 9-10 pints. And it is commonly held that no more than 5 units (2 pints roughly) should be consumed in any given day for a man. For a woman it tends to be 14 which is roughly equal to a bottle of wine.

I'm not going to start judging things by 'Irish' standards anymore than I would judge by 'German' standards or 'Jamaican' standards.

Any person who is inclined to have a drink, no matter where they are in the world, (and I know people all over the globe) is extremely likely to exceed this 'limit' in a given week. People might want to come on here and argue the toss over that but it has been, in my varied personal experience all over the world, a fact.

Whether it comes down to 2 nights out at the weekend or a combination of glasses of wine with dinner and a night out once a week the average drinker will exceed this limit.

There is absolutely no argument that alcohol is bad for you. The ideal amount of alcohol is zero. It doesn't do anything positive for your physically. However neither do a plethora of other things too. I think the problem is that you have become hung up on the 'issue' of alcohol.

His behaviour isn't erratic or detremental. His mood isn't altered by his drinking and it doesn't impact on his personal life. I really don't see what the problem is at all.

Health? Yes sure. However if that is the issue here than are you as keenly aware of the amount of saturated fat he should eat in a day? Or the amount of fibre he should be having in his diet? The potential impact of cleaning products used in your household? Or what goes into the personal hygiene products he may use?

I'm all for keeping healthy and living a good clean lifestyle but I'd be wary of making an issue where there is none. By all means he should be looking after himself and being fit and healthy is a concern for all of us. However if you want to find something to fixate on you always will.

I can almost guarantee you that if I followed him around for a week I'd find something in his lifestyle that was as mildly detrimental to his health as his alcohol intake.

Yes he drinks to much because he drinks at all. His intake isn't excessive by the standards of someone who would by most standards be classified as a drinker (someone who doesn't confine their drinking to only special occasions etc..) so therefore I don't perceive it to be a problem. He comes in at 27.5 units on the drinkaware website. So, yes, hes slightly over the (completely arbitrary) recommended weekly limit. There are lots of other things he might be putting into his body that he's taking slightly too much of as well.

I say this as someone who drinks less than your husband. Also my father is a absolutely rampant alcoholic and has been for as long as I can remember (I'm 30). Just so you know there is a little perspective. Not everyone whose life has been impacted by alcohol thinks a little bit over the odds in intake compared to some arbitrary limit is a problem.

Boskowski

OldNotWIse wrote: »

For what its worth, I have often heard it said that it's not necessarily the amount of drink consumed but the attitude to drinking that is a problem. For example, I go out 3/4 nights out of 7 and the remaining 4/3 I would drink at home. MY average intake would be 3 pints of beer and maybe 1 spirit before bed. Not serious binge drinking per say but over the course of a week...a lot. My brother, on the other hand can go weeks even months without drinking but when he does...he doesn't know when to stop. He can have 10 pints and move to vodka and red bull then shots...come home and not even know his own name. On the face of it, someone could say I am an alcoholic because I drink more regularly, but I know when to stop. He doesn't drink that often but when he does it's a problem.

And yet I think your regular intake is much more dangerous than the once in a blue moon total blast out. Your daily consumption - although you may consider it not much - is much more prone to become a habit. It probably has already. Much more prone to increase the 'daily rate' than the other guys blast to become more frequent.

Same thing for the OPs oh.