If you emigrate for work, return after 2+ years you're ineligible for Social Welfare?

ohwell

I'm not sure if this belongs here in Work & Jobs or State Benefits - if not suitable I guess a mod will move it anyway. Now, is it true that if you emigrate and are out of Ireland full time for more 2 years that should you need to return (loss of job abroad, contract ends, visa problems, family relocation for whatever reason etc) that if you can't then find employment in Ireland you are not entitled to a single red cent from Social Welfare? I think it's because of the Habitual Residency Condition (HRC) which was only introduced here when the eastern European countries joined the EU. So, in such an eventuality you and your family (if you had one) would be paupers in your own country? Anyone know whether this is in fact the case? If it is I'd advise people to think very carefully about emigrating in the first place.

snubbleste

You can actually investigate this yourself using a search engine.

ohwell

snubbleste wrote: »

You can actually investigate this yourself using a search engine.

Ya reckon? And I have done so and this is the information I have come up with but I'm wondering if the information I have found and my interpretation of that information is the correct interpretation, hence the question. And by asking the question I am also informing others who might possibly plan to emigrate of one major potential pitfall should they ever need to, or ever plan to, return to Ireland.

Kristopherus

Are you referring to returning from a non-EU country? If so, the 2 year HRC applies. Have a look at welfare.ie or citizensinformatiom.ie for details. If returning from a EU country no conditions apply as long as you have an up to date contributions record.
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/habres.aspx

ohwell

Kristopherus wrote: »

Are you referring to returning from a non-EU country? If so, the 2 year HRC applies. Have a look at welfare.ie or citizensinformatiom.ie for details. If returning from a EU country no conditions apply as long as you have an up to date contributions record.
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/habres.aspx

Yeah, I saw that before but talk about something being unclear! It uses words such as "may" instead of "are". Very difficult to get a comprehensive understanding of it. It seems discretionary. Wouldn't fancy being at the mercy of a deciding officer like that. I may have overlooked it but I don't think EU or non-EU country comes into it once you've be outside the State or the CTA (Common Travel Area which is Ireland and the UK) for more tha 2 years. For example on the CTA it says:

"For the purpose of each provision of this Act specified in subsection (3), it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown, that a person is not habitually resident in the State at the date of the making of the application concerned unless the person has been present in the State or any other part of the Common Travel Area for a continuous period of 2 years ending on that date."

It then goes onto say "A person does not necessarily satisfy the HRC merely because they have lived here for 2 years immediately preceding a claim. Also, a person is not necessarily disallowed on habitual residence grounds because they have NOT lived here for 2 years immediately preceding a claim." Following that it says "The HRC is a complex condition....." No sh*t! It's as clear as a foggy day.

Mrs OBumble

Am moving this to state-benefits for ya - hopefully they can give access to what on-the-ground policies Welfare are applying these days.

There have always been alternative ways of meeting the HRC, but what counts changes from time to time. At a minimum, have plenty of paperwork making it clear that you've cut all ties with the other country.

Balagan

ohwell wrote: »

I'm not sure if this belongs here in Work & Jobs or State Benefits - if not suitable I guess a mod will move it anyway. Now, is it true that if you emigrate and are out of Ireland full time for more 2 years that should you need to return (loss of job abroad, contract ends, visa problems, family relocation for whatever reason etc) that if you can't then find employment in Ireland you are not entitled to a single red cent from Social Welfare? I think it's because of the Habitual Residency Condition (HRC) which was only introduced here when the eastern European countries joined the EU. So, in such an eventuality you and your family (if you had one) would be paupers in your own country? Anyone know whether this is in fact the case? If it is I'd advise people to think very carefully about emigrating in the first place.

This may be helpful to you:

Returning Irish emigrants
EU rules prevent discrimination on nationality grounds in relation to social security, so it is not possible to exempt a particular category of Irish citizens (such as returning Irish emigrants) from the habitual residence condition (either in general or for Carer’s Allowance) without extending the same treatment to all EU nationals. However, the guidelines on determination of habitual residence address the issue of returning emigrants very specifically. The guidelines state: “A person who had previously been habitually resident in the State and who moved to live and work in another country and then resumes his/her long-term residence in the State may be regarded as being habitually resident immediately on his/her return to the State.”

When determining the main centre of interest for returning emigrants, Deciding Officers take account of:

The purpose of your return, for example, because your foreign residence permit has expired
Your stated intentions
Verified arrangements which you have made in regard to returning on a long-term basis, for example, transfer of financial accounts and any other assets, termination of residence-based entitlements in the other country, or assistance from Safe-Home or a similar programme to enable Irish emigrants to return permanently
Length and continuity of your previous residence in the State
Your record of employment or self employment in another state and
Whether you have maintained links with your previous residence and can be regarded as resuming your previous residence rather than starting a new period of residence.
Documentation
Regardless of what country you are coming from you may be asked to provide documentary evidence that shows your 'centre of interest' is now in Ireland. This evidence should show that you have moved to Ireland, you intend to settle in Ireland permanently and you do not intend to go back to live in the country you came from.

Where possible, you should provide the following documentary evidence:

Proof to show you have given up accommodation abroad
Proof that you have cancelled or applied to cancel any non-transferable benefits
Proof you have transferred or applied to transfer any transferable income
Proof to show measures you have put in place to open a bank account here
Proof to show you have a tenancy in your own name (in Ireland)
Proof of travel documents including, where relevant, excess baggage fees and removal/shipping receipts
All evidence presented will be authenticated, as far as is possible, by the relevant Officer. In some cases you may be asked to submit further documentary evidence. In certain cases, a Social Welfare Inspector may investigate your application.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html

mkdon

bumping this

still applicable?

splinter65

mkdon wrote: »

bumping this

still applicable?

The HRC is still in play, so yes.

njs030

mkdon wrote: »

bumping this

still applicable?

The answers on your other thread still apply too!