Beginning Olympic lifting

johnryano

Recently I've quit organised sports and started 'going to the gym'.

I basically just do back squats, front squats, deadlifts, lunges, bench, over head squats, pressing like that. I don't follow a program and I just jump in and out of the power racks and benches as they free up. I also spend a lot of time messing around with mobility and stuff like that.

Kinda want to start doing Olympic weightlifting. I'm pretty weak at the general power lifting stuff, I've been doing it about a month and basically bench press 5x5 about 40% BW, deadlift about 100% BW, back squat about 75% body weight and front squat about the same.

Essentially i want to learn the technique now, working on the broomstick/just the bar while chipping away at the powerlifts.

My question is, how do i go about doing this. I don't really want to pay to have a coach (I'm in UL where there probably are people i could get to teach me) i just want a programme and some youtube videos and I'll happily work through it myself in my own time until i hit a wall.

I'd love if people could either point me in the direction of the best online sources or tell me what I'm doing is stupid and I should stick to less complex lifting or just get a coach.

thank you.

Molly

Pendlay beginner program/videos from California Strength. Getting a good coach would be best though

Scuba Ste

Molly wrote: »

Pendlay beginner program/videos from California Strength. Getting a good coach would be best though

Best online resource imo. http://californiastrength.com/videos/viewcategory/5/snatch There's a few articles he's written on his website too which might help.

There's a few lifters in UL. You could see what the story is there first.

Do the bar work for a few weeks, work on ankle, hip and shoulder mobility and see how you get on.

CathalByrd

Good to hear that you are beginning weightlifting! I coach weightlifting & general strength & conditioning in UL, but these coaching & programming services are not free...

...However...

...I (as well as most lifters in Ireland) have no problem giving the odd bit of help & advice to new/developing lifters if they happen to be lifting while I am in the gym training myself, but this will be pretty informal as I will be focusing on my own training. I train most weekdays between 2-5pm, if you're around and want some pointers don't be afraid to ask...

Parsley

johnryano wrote: »

My question is, how do i go about doing this. I don't really want to pay to have a coach (I'm in UL where there probably are people i could get to teach me) i just want a programme and some youtube videos and I'll happily work through it myself in my own time until i hit a wall.

That's probably a bad call, as the wall you'd hit would probably be down to technique and you may have to start from scratch again learning under a coach...

Burkatron

Just on this topic. With numbers like the OP has Is it not better to focus on the less complex lifts like squatting, deadlifting,OH pressing etc. & get alot stronger before you take on OLY lifting? I know my main problems with Oly lifting is 1: Mobility 2: Strength. My technique wasn't too bad at lower weights but found I was making little progression in weight moved. Since I went back & upped my strength I've progressed quicker...Or have I got it arseways? (Like most things when it comes to my training!! :P)

Hanley

Burkatron wrote: »

Just on this topic. With numbers like the OP has Is it not better to focus on the less complex lifts like squatting, deadlifting,OH pressing etc. & get alot stronger before you take on OLY lifting? I know my main problems with Oly lifting is 1: Mobility 2: Strength. My technique wasn't too bad at lower weights but found I was making little progression in weight moved. Since I went back & upped my strength I've progressed quicker...Or have I got it arseways? (Like most things when it comes to my training!! :P)

You're now strong enough to get away with bad technique.

It'd be a terrible decision to defer technique work now for gaining strength in the core lifts.

Scuba Ste

Burkatron wrote: »

Just on this topic. With numbers like the OP has Is it not better to focus on the less complex lifts like squatting, deadlifting,OH pressing etc. & get alot stronger before you take on OLY lifting? I know my main problems with Oly lifting is 1: Mobility 2: Strength. My technique wasn't too bad at lower weights but found I was making little progression in weight moved. Since I went back & upped my strength I've progressed quicker...Or have I got it arseways? (Like most things when it comes to my training!! :P)

No. Technique won't get better by not working on it and there's no reason you can't do both anyway.

How do you know your technique is not too bad. In my experience the vast majority of people who haven't had some decent coaching have awful technique. I could be wrong but I don't see how your technique could be decent without training the lifts regularly. I snatch and C&J almost exclusively 3 times a week and I wouldn't consider myself technically proficient.

As a beginner I think mobility, technique then strength are the determining factors and mobility only because most people haven't got enough to OH squat. Once your mobility is sufficient then technique is the determining factor by far until you reach an intermediate level and higher.

What are your numbers like?

Scuba Ste

Jaysus, half way through the level 1 and your expert already :pac:

CathalByrd

Mobility is pivotal for sure, as is technique. Without adequate range of joint motion & decent technique one would only experience frustration & injury in weightlifting. It's an unforgiving sport if one is not physically prepared. But... Strength is something that can be developed all of the time, even when focusing on mobility & technique. Strength is what will ensure stability through range of motion in weightlifting, which will in-turn help to reduce the risk of injury.

Finally, and most importantly... I would need to see a person lift before advising anything specific. It is difficult to give advice without a full picture of how the person in-question moves while using both internal & external resistance.

johnryano

thanks lads,

i'll get in touch with you cathal during the week. my buddy might want to do some training with me, might be able to get coaching off you then

thanks

Hanley

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Jaysus, half way through the level 1 and your expert already :pac:

Yup. I now know all thoracic mobility work lat stretching must be done standing to be applicable to weightlifting.

Burkatron

Hanley wrote: »

You're now strong enough to get away with bad technique.

It'd be a terrible decision to defer technique work now for gaining strength in the core lifts.

Correction....barely strong enough to get away with bad technique...

Scuba Ste wrote: »

No. Technique won't get better by not working on it and there's no reason you can't do both anyway.

True, when I'm not stuck for time I do work my Oly lifts, usually at low weights before my core lifts just to train better motor patterns

How do you know your technique is not too bad. In my experience the vast majority of people who haven't had some decent coaching have awful technique. I could be wrong but I don't see how your technique could be decent without training the lifts regularly. I snatch and C&J almost exclusively 3 times a week and I wouldn't consider myself technically proficient.

I'll try & give you an idea where I'm coming from. I got injured in late 09, double inguinal hernia. Couldn't lift but couldn't get the time off work to get the surgery either, I wasn't excessively strong at this stage, 150kg Deadlift 120kg Squat 94kg Bench at 65-70kg give or take time of year (Winter padding ) were my main numbers.

Anyway, I just focused on running & swimming for 9 months & obviously lost the minimal strength gains I'd made. Did the Crossfit level 1 cert Late October 2010 & threw myself straight into the programming thinking I was onto a winner (I got brainwashed ). My conditioning went up but my strength didn't really go anywhere. I started training with Steve Weinmann in PTI & worked on my Oly lifts with him
(Pre-hernia injury: I worked with Dave McConkey (SDSC/Combat work shop)before this when I was training with Team Ryano MMA. I also worked a couple of times with Harry Leech & the lads in CFI in seminars but nothing majorly consistant).

I did a good 6 months working Oly lifts 3 x times a week (pre wod)but I just didn't make big gains. This wasn't helped by following crappy & inconsistent programming online (Not from PTI or SDSC etc.) 3-4 times a week on the WOD side of things. So I hopefully have some basic technique at this stage!!!

I got pissed off with the strength side of things so started working my core lifts consistantly again since October (I think) using (bastifying)John Welbourne's CFFB programming (Yep, I'm still trying the Crossfit side of things) & my strength is going the right direction. So I'm hitting my core lifts 3-4 times a week & Oly lifts 2x weekly. I've made gains in my Oly lifting in the past 4 months with less practice & I'm putting it down to my core lifts going the right way.

Edit: This also coincides with grip problems I had for along time from the MMA abuse virtually clearing up & my hip flexors/Abdominal muscles following my Hernia surgery ROM slowly increasing so I can't solely put it down to getting stronger on my core lifts, throw in ankle issues & a bum shoulder,I'm a mess & this post is getting more & more incoherent...:)

So all in all, I have no idea!

As a beginner I think mobility, technique then strength are the determining factors and mobility only because most people haven't got enough to OH squat. Once your mobility is sufficient then technique is the determining factor by far until you reach an intermediate level and higher.

Completely agree with mobility as #1 But does a higher strength base as a beginner not allow you to progress quicker when learning technique?

What are your numbers like?

Shiiiite

67kg clean & Jerk, 55kg Snatch (I loathe it so so so much!!) then (currently) 110kg Squat A2G (completely rebuilt it since I started CFFB) 140kg Deadlift & 84kg Bench at 70kg BW

Hanley

Higher strength tends to indicate longer training, and probably better kinesthetic awareness. So if you can get better faster, it's because of your exp and not necessarily skill level. IMO.

Scuba Ste

Burkatron wrote: »

I did a good 6 months working Oly lifts 3 x times a week (pre wod)but I just didn't make big gains. This wasn't helped by following crappy & inconsistent programming online (Not from PTI or SDSC etc.) 3-4 times a week on the WOD side of things. So I hopefully have some basic technique at this stage!!!

I got pissed off with the strength side of things so started working my core lifts consistantly again since October (I think) using (bastifying)John Welbourne's CFFB programming (Yep, I'm still trying the Crossfit side of things) & my strength is going the right direction. So I'm hitting my core lifts 3-4 times a week & Oly lifts 2x weekly. I've made gains in my Oly lifting in the past 4 months with less practice & I'm putting it down to my core lifts going the right way.

To me 6 months is more than enough time to get a decent base level technique so maybe you have that already. Like Cathal said only seeing you lift would prove that or not. And you don't have to ignore strength work while learning the lifts, ideally you'll do them both.

I don't know why you didn't see improvements when you were more consistent with the lifts than you are now, again only seeing you and your programming would explain that. At your level I wouldn't think it was lack of strength though. I've seen beginners improve just by doing the lifts and sometimes squatting although some didn't even squat much. Like anything you'll get better by doing it more. Your numbers aren't such that it would explain greater strength over technique or vice versa. A really strong lifter could probably hit those with poor technique or a weak lifter with good technique.

Completely agree with mobility as #1 But does a higher strength base as a beginner not allow you to progress quicker when learning technique?

Yes the stronger you are the further and faster you can progress but only when you have a good technique base. I don't mean you need to be as fast or proficient as a seasoned weightlifter, I just mean a few months learning the basics.

I'd probably agree with Hanley too. If you've more experience training and generally being athletic your probably more likely to progress faster too.

johnryano

Had a wander up to UL arena tonight. Very busy at the power racks and lifting platforms. Had to wait til the end but there was some young guy with an emo hair cut squatting about a million kgs. I felt a bit silly trying to do Cal-strength squat part 1 tutorial with an empty bar.

Thud

Was it Ninja boy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQGDf7ik-N0

CathalByrd

Had a wander up to UL arena tonight. Very busy at the power racks and lifting platforms. Had to wait til the end but there was some young guy with an emo hair cut squatting about a million kgs. I felt a bit silly trying to do Cal-strength squat part 1 tutorial with an empty bar.

Most likely Clarence Kennedy, in for his second session of the day... Try not to compare yourself to him, it only leads to extreme levels of self-loathing!

6-9pm-ish the gym is usually very busy, if you can get in before 6pm any day it is a much nicer place to train!

johnryano

ok got in for 4.30-6 was even busier than at 9!

got to gawk at the lads lifting to try and copy them but jesus, 20kg olympic bar is very tough to snatch with that wide grip. i'd love to get a long 10kg bar or something to practice on.

the son of zeus was there flinging a few tonne over his head.

the drifter

johnryano wrote: »

ok got in for 4.30-6 was even busier than at 9!

got to gawk at the lads lifting to try and copy them but jesus, 20kg olympic bar is very tough to snatch with that wide grip. i'd love to get a long 10kg bar or something to practice on.

the son of zeus was there flinging a few tonne over his head.

you just need to find Cathal. There should be some technique bars(7kg) somewhere or an extra long broomstick you can practice with...

johnryano

happened to chance upon a 7kg bar! found it much easier to get it 'snatched' and try do the movements in the cal-strength videos. obviously was a lot easier because i did it at the start rather than at the end of my session too.

roro1neil0

I also happened to have begun trying to make sense of the olympic lifts, got a session with cathal which was brilliant but i'd probably need a lesson every day which isn't economically viable.

Going to work on a snatch pull/snatch grip deadlift today. They're apparently not the same thing.

roro1neil0

anyone have any good links to some mobility exercises/ warm ups designed for olympic lifting or something similar?

even something generic will do

Mellor

roro1neil0 wrote: »

anyone have any good links to some mobility exercises/ warm ups designed for olympic lifting or something similar?

even something generic will do

http://www.mobilitywod.com/

Start at the beginning and work through the posts.

roro1neil0

cool,

used the 'clam', 'fire hydrant' and 'shoulder dislocates' today and spend a lot of time in the full squat position trying to stretch out the hip and ankles. concentrated on keeping <10 degree angle at the foot.