Privatise policing?

The King of Moo

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/02/police-privatisation-security-firms-crime

Synopsis:

In Britain, West Midlands and Surrey police forces have invited bids from private security forces to take over many of the activities currently undertaken by police. These would not include activities involving the power of arrest or other powers of a sworn constable, but could potentially include:

investigating crimes, detaining suspects, developing cases, responding to and investigating incidents, supporting victims and witnesses, managing high-risk individuals, patrolling neighbourhoods, managing intelligence, managing engagement with the public, as well as more traditional back-office functions, such as managing forensics, providing legal services, managing the vehicle fleet, finance and human resources.

Could this be a good idea? It doesn't sit well with me. It might lead to bias, abuse of power and conflicts of interest, and I can't help thinking of extreme cases like Blackwater, the contractor hired by the U.S military.
But I'd imagine there are some possibly persuasive arguments that privatisation might make policing more cost-effective and save money.

Would you like to see the Gardaí replaced with private security guards?

RichieC

Absolutely the **** not.

Caveman1

The way some security guards and bouncers act, you'd swear they were FBI agents.

I think its hilarious looking at security it dunnes going around with their walkie talkies and ear pieces most likely following a granny who stole a pack of worthers originals :pac:

WindSock

Yes. More fines plz.

Ghandee

With regards to security guards in Tesco/Dunnes etc....

What actual powers do they have?

Like, say you'd the trolley stuffed with goods, and they suspected you of having a few items that you didn't pay for, and asked you in the nicest possible way to accompany them to wherever it is suspected shop lifters get taken to.
What if you told them to fcuk right off, you were headed home, surely if they tried to force you against your will it would amount to false imprisonment?

Don't envy their jobs by any means!

Must be tough to 'think' your a cop, while having zero powers that a cop has.

Phill Ewinn

no

Pacifist Pigeon

As a libertarian anarchist, I approve this message. If one private policing agency isn't doing its job, I can hire another one that will!

hondasam

The King of Moo wrote: »

In Britain, West Midlands and Surrey police forces have invited bids from private security forces to take over many of the activities currently undertaken by police. These would not include activities involving the power of arrest or other powers of a sworn constable, but could potentially include:

what will the police force do if all their works is gone elsewhere?
.

Would you like to see the Gardaí replaced with private security guards?

No even if some of the guards we have at the moment are no better than security guards. Some of the work could be given to private companies.

Caveman1

Ghandee wrote: »

With regards to security guards in Tesco/Dunnes etc....

What actual powers do they have?

Like, say you'd the trolley stuffed with goods, and they suspected you of having a few items that you didn't pay for, and asked you in the nicest possible way to accompany them to wherever it is suspected shop lifters get taken to.
What if you told them to fcuk right off, you were headed home, surely if they tried to force you against your will it would amount to false imprisonment?

Don't envy their jobs by any means!

Must be tough to 'think' your a cop, while having zero powers that a cop has.

As far as I know they aren't able to do anything to you, if you refuse to co-operate they'll just call the Garda, open to correction on this though

The King of Moo

Caveman1 wrote: »

The way some security guards and bouncers act, you'd swear they were FBI agents.

I think its hilarious looking at security it dunnes going around with their walkie talkies and ear pieces most likely following a granny who stole a pack of worthers originals :pac:

Ghandee wrote: »

With regards to security guards in Tesco/Dunnes etc....

What actual powers do they have?

Like, say you'd the trolley stuffed with goods, and they suspected you of having a few items that you didn't pay for, and asked you in the nicest possible way to accompany them to wherever it is suspected shop lifters get taken to.
What if you told them to fcuk right off, you were headed home, surely if they tried to force you against your will it would amount to false imprisonment?

Don't envy their jobs by any means!

Must be tough to 'think' your a cop, while having zero powers that a cop has.

That's why I'd worry about private contractors taking over policing. Even though security guards would probably get lots of extra training if they got to do actual policing, I'd always worry that lots of them would've been itching to be "real police" and that given the chance, the power might go their head and they'd go overboard.

hondasam

Ghandee wrote: »

With regards to security guards in Tesco/Dunnes etc....

What actual powers do they have?

.

They have the power to detain you until the gardai arrive.

The King of Moo

hondasam wrote: »

what will the police force do if all their works is gone elsewhere?
.



No even if some of the guards we have at the moment are no better than security guards. Some of the work could be given to private companies.

I think in the case in the article they'd be laid off as part of government spending cuts.

hondasam

The King of Moo wrote: »

I think in the case in the article they'd be laid off as part of government spending cuts.

I know they are getting cutting the force in the UK but it will not be a good thing really.

Ghandee

Caveman1 wrote: »

As far as I know they aren't able to do anything to you, if you refuse to co-operate they'll just call the Garda, open to correction on this though

\gets coat....... Nearest Tesco about two mile from here.....

And they got booze.......

Lots of boooze!

:pac:

Ghandee

hondasam wrote: »

They have the power to detain you until the gardai arrive.

What about false imprisonment?


Doubt they could legally restrict your freedom.....
I know if I stopped someone I only suspected of something, only for it to transpire that they actually didn't, I'd be fierce worried about them suing me or some **** for detaining them illegally.

I'd say its a grey area to say the least

Edit, btw.... I'm not a Gard/security personell...... Genuinely curious.

Gummy Panda

Get OCP to run the cops

lcrcboy

dont know about replacing the Guards in certain areas, but it might be a handy idea to allow bondsmen to set up in Ireland. Would help to relieve some of the stress the guards have in bringing people in on skipping bail. It could be ristricted to low threat individuals such as drug abusers, petty thieves and other low risk criminals allowing for the guards to focus on going after more serious criminals and bigger cases.

Private companies are supposed to turn a profit. That's how they exist. So put them in charge of speeding fines and give them traffic warden jobs and such, sure, but not general policing. Last thing you need is a Garda call out fee.

hondasam

Ghandee wrote: »

What about false imprisonment?


Doubt they could legally restrict your freedom.....
I know if I stopped someone I only suspected of something, only for it to transpire that they actually didn't, I'd be fierce worried about them suing me or some **** for detaining them illegally.

I'd say its a grey area to say the least

Edit, btw.... I'm not a Gard/security personell...... Genuinely curious.

They have to see you take the item, watch you at all times, you have to pass all points of payment and leave the store before they stop you.
The security guard would have to be positive you stole something for the reason you said.

Rocky_Dennis

The King of Moo wrote: »

That's why I'd worry about private contractors taking over policing. Even though security guards would probably get lots of extra training if they got to do actual policing, I'd always worry that lots of them would've been itching to be "real police" and that given the chance, the power might go their head and they'd go overboard.

While I fully agree with what you're saying, there are plenty of guards out there on power trips too.

Ghandee wrote: »

What about false imprisonment?

I'm open to correction on this but could they make a citizens arrest until the Gardai arrive?

The King of Moo

Deleted User wrote: »

Private companies are supposed to turn a profit. That's how they exist. So put them in charge of speeding fines and give them traffic warden jobs and such, sure, but not general policing. Last thing you need is a Garda call out fee.

It might lead to situations like this, where firefighters left houses to burn down due to people not paying annual fees! :eek:

lcrcboy

Andrewh1984 wrote: »

While I fully agree with what you're saying, there are plenty of guards out there on power trips too.

Ghandee wrote: »

What about false imprisonment?

I'm open to correction on this but legally could they make a citizens arrest until the Gardai arrive?

could we allow a bail bondsmen system that might be more effective than private security firms

charlemont

Your taxes would go through the roof if policing was privatized. Although we do need a new police force in Ireland that has solving crime as its priority. The current Gardaí are not up to the job.

Doc Ruby

lcrcboy wrote: »

could we allow a bail bondsmen system that might be more effective than private security firms

Sure lets just hire mercenaries and get it done with.

The problem with this scenario is sooner or later they are going to get severely corrupt, and who are you going to call, the police? Then they run into some individualistic bastard who rightly doesn't recognise their authority and then you have an insurrection on your hands.

So, no.

WindSock

Will these new police, police the constant stream of fecked up quoting on this thread though?

Rocky_Dennis

WindSock wrote: »

Will these new police, police the constant stream of fecked up quoting on this thread though?

I'll get my coat

The King of Moo

WindSock wrote: »

Will these new police, police the constant stream of fecked up quoting on this thread though?

There'll be a special force of crack SOPA stormtroopers monitoring every quote on Boards to make sure it doesn't contain copyrighted material.

Voodu Child

Will these new police, police the constant stream of fecked up quoting on this thread though?

WindSock wrote: »

hopefully

WindSock

The King of Moo wrote: »

There'll be a special force of crack SOPA stormtroopers monitoring every quote on Boards to make sure it doesn't contain copyrighted material.

It's SOPAtm :mad:

Post reported.

Ghandee

Voodu Child wrote: »

Will these new police, police the constant stream of fecked up quoting on this thread though? Hope so, i've hairy erect nipples btw.

Thanks for sharing. :rolleyes:

Chuck Stone

hondasam wrote: »

what will the police force do if all their works is gone elsewhere?

Get hired by the private companies as a pre-trained security officer.

It's an interesting experiment.

I don't think private policing can work as a farmed out public service. It would have to have people voluntarily paying for it at a local or district level or there would be no incentive for efficiency.

If private policing was being funded by the public purse there would only be incentive to receive ever more funding. Also, if private companies were used at a local level people would probably be reluctant to pay to lock people up for victimless crimes such as selling and consuming drugs - which would be a good thing imo.

The King of Moo

WindSock wrote: »

It's SOPAtm :mad:

Post reported.

SOPA-APPROVED OFFICIAL RESPONSE: non-copyrighted generic sad face.

Teyla Emmagan

From the OP's original post, here's my list of things that could reasonably be outsourced:

more traditional back-office functions, such as managing forensics, providing legal services, managing the vehicle fleet, finance and human resources.

And those that IMO should not:

investigating crimes, detaining suspects, developing cases, responding to and investigating incidents, supporting victims and witnesses, managing high-risk individuals, patrolling neighbourhoods, managing intelligence, managing engagement with the public.

So not a lot then. For all I know though the Guards probably already outsource a lot of that - they hardly have Gardai with ACCA qualifications doing the bookkeeping etc (though you wouldn't know).

I really can't see how it would work out cheaper to outsource any of the actual crime related work. The only people in this country qualified/trained up to do it would be actual Guards. And they're hardly going to leave an existing job for an identical one unless they got a pay rise (so where then are the savings etc).

I can't quote for toffee either.

44leto

I fear it would lead to abuse of power and corruption. So no I am not for this.

Caveman1

Ghandee wrote: »

\gets coat....... Nearest Tesco about two mile from here.....

And they got booze.......

Lots of boooze!

:pac:

It's that attitude that has you holidaying in clover hill Ghandee:pac:

senorwipesalot

Cops for cash.Will it happen here?


Police in Britain are poised to bring in private companies to investigate crimes and patrol neighbourhoods, it was reported today.

Two forces, West Midlands and Surrey, are asking security firms to bid for contracts, worth £1.5bn (€1.8bn) over seven years, to run some services that are currently carried out by officers, according to the Guardian.

Successful firms would have a wide range of responsibilities, including detaining suspects and responding to incidents, but would not be able to arrest suspects.

In a briefing note sent to companies, which was seen by the newspaper, all services that “can be legally delegated to the private sector” are potentially up for contract.

Administrative roles, such as legal services and managing forensics, are also set to be outsourced.

The move will spark fears about privatisation within the police force.

A Home Office spokesman said: “Private companies will not be able to arrest suspects, and they will not be solely responsible for investigating crime. Many forces already use the private sector to run custody suites so that officers can be deployed elsewhere.

“We support the police in considering the value of private sector partnering to achieve cost savings and better services for the public.”


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/private-firms-to-police-streets-in-uk-542115.html#ixzz1o8l1yLAW

Ghandee

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056566010

Doc Ruby

Bring back bounty hunters is what I say, my ear necklaces are getting a bit mowldy.

lividduck

yeah, we done this thread yesterday morning, deja vu or what?

Mr.Crinklewood

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Bring back bounty hunters is what I say, my ear necklaces are getting a bit mowldy.

They are pretty easy to get these days as they are available in most corner shops.

BarackPyjama

Similar to clampers. Government outsourcing their responsibilities to private companies while continuing to tax people for the services they're no long providing. No revolution in sight any time soon though.

Doc Ruby

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

They are pretty easy to get these days as they are available in most corner shops.

Thats whats wrong with the world today, people willing to settle for mass produced ears imported from China. What happened to taking a bit of pride in the craftsmanship of harvesting your own.

Mr.Crinklewood

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Thats whats wrong with the world today, people willing to settle for mass produced ears imported from China. What happened to taking a bit of pride in the craftsmanship of harvesting your own.

If fairness corn can be sourced closer than China.