Aer Arann to cease flights in it's own name.

Growler!!!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0302/1224312633558.html

radar0976

Growler!!! wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0302/1224312633558.html

It was inevitable I suppose.

BuffyBot

Can't say this was unexpected!

pauraic1990

Good news to the people in southwest where passenger can buy ticket to the USA all in one ticket with connection in DUB.

roundymac

If only they would start a Cork-Dub route, we could do the same.

Tenger

roundymac wrote: »

If only they would start a Cork-Dub route, we could do the same.

We're getting to the stage where domestic flights are not worth the investment when motorways offer hassle free car/bus journeys instead.

devnull

Always expected this to happen to be honest like others have said - sad to see but with the Aer Lingus name being much better known it should hopefully help their fortunes.

Growler!!!

Let the gamesmanship begin:)

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/no-agreement-on-deal-to-end-flights-under-aer-arann-brand-371341-Mar2012/

sparrowcar

Aer arann backtracking until they have informed their handling/catering companies that they are rebranding. It's a done deal IMO

Run_to_da_hills

Will they still hold on to the title for the Arann Island to Galway service?

DOCARCH

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Will they still hold on to the title for the Arann Island to Galway service?

AFAIK, that service is run by seperate entity. Aer Arann Islands. Not sure if it (still) has any connection with Aer Arann?

Run_to_da_hills

DOCARCH wrote: »

AFAIK, that service is run by seperate entity. Aer Arann Islands. Not sure if it (still) has any connection with Aer Arann?

It has a link to Aer Arann regional at the bottom of their web page.

Suits

Wonder if this will affect pilot recruitment in Aer Lingus? Will we see Aer Arran pilots who are now within the franchise find it easier to get jobs under the same banner in Aer Lingus?

I've heard it muted that some or all of the Aer Lingus cadets may well see action on the regional ATR fleet.

hurleronditch

What will happen to the IoM to LCY route I wonder? Doesn't link in to the EI network but I assume the slots in city might be interesting for Aer Lingus

Skyhawk684

I wonder if Aer Lingus Regional then will still operate from Terminal 1..?

orionm_73

hurleronditch wrote: »

What will happen to the IoM to LCY route I wonder? Doesn't link in to the EI network but I assume the slots in city might be interesting for Aer Lingus

Suits Wonder if this will affect pilot recruitment in Aer Lingus? Will we see Aer Arran pilots who are now within the franchise find it easier to get jobs under the same banner in Aer Lingus?

I've heard it muted that some or all of the Aer Lingus cadets may well see action on the regional ATR fleet.

The EIR operation is just a franchise. RE pay a fee to EI to fly in their colours. EI aren't involved in RE recruitment or London City slots.

lord lucan

Skyhawk684 wrote: »

I wonder if Aer Lingus Regional then will still operate from Terminal 1..?

There's hardly enough room for EI sometimes at T2 let alone EIR. I'd imagine they'll stay were they are in T1.

muppet01

Agreed, plus the ATR's will stay out on remote stands, not goin to see them on Pier E methinks........

Suits

orionm_73 wrote: »

The EIR operation is just a franchise. RE pay a fee to EI to fly in their colours. EI aren't involved in RE recruitment or London City slots.

Aer Lingus do have a history of leasing pilots out though.

I just heard it suggested as there is likely to be another DE drive before the cadets come of age due to the poor showing on TR, base, line etc training by the last lot of sausages....and that may fulfill some of the staffing needs the cadetship was going to cover.(ie it seems they need those plugs quicker than they thought they might)

xflyer

Yes EI does have a history of that but really it was places like Bali and other far flung places rather than Waterford or whatever. But I could see some of the latest crop of cadets ending up in RE serving their apprenticeship.

It has to be said though back in the days of Aer Lingus Commuter, it was a popular gig. The sheds A330/A360s often didn't have autopilots and it was proper stick and rudder flying. This lasted into the Bae146 era when everyone knew everyone else. Once Commuter was absorbed into mainline there was a certain disappointment with the crews.

Somehow RE might be the new Commuter. Let's hope.

Johnny901

I see the article mentions Dublin to Southend, will this work ATR72/43 v jet equipment on every other Dub / Lon route ?

jacquesbernis

2 points Suits:
1. These are 2 separate companies. In order for the Cadets to fly with the separate franchise operation then there'd have to be space made by Regional crews moving somewhere? Not sure what kind of appetite there is amongst RE Captains for going to the back of the F/o queue in EI?
2. You cannot hear something that's "muted".

BuffyBot

Johnny901 wrote: »

I see the article mentions Dublin to Southend, will this work ATR72/43 v jet equipment on every other Dub / Lon route ?

No reason it wouldn't - if the craft fits demand, it'll do fine. If demand somehow became great enough, EI could take the route themselves.

Suits

jacquesbernis wrote: »

2 points Suits:
1. These are 2 separate companies. In order for the Cadets to fly with the separate franchise operation then there'd have to be space made by Regional crews moving somewhere? Not sure what kind of appetite there is amongst RE Captains for going to the back of the F/o queue in EI?
2. You cannot hear something that's "muted".

Well 1. Many RE FOs wouldnt mind moving to Aer Lingus I'd imagine. They may be 2 different companies but they are the same franchise and exchanging pilots would not be out of the question. Older EI captains would move to RE for a more relaxed layout and a nice place to retire to.

2. I have good hearing!:D

bladeruner

Suits wrote: »

Older EI captains would move to RE for a more relaxed layout and a nice place to retire to.
!:D

I'll warrant flying an Airbus 330 to Boston and new York at the top of the seniority tree is a more comfortable place to be then flogging an ATR around the skies of Ireland in the crappiest of weather !!!

I seriously doubt Ei cadets will start off in EIR .

Tenger

Suits wrote: »

........Older EI captains would move to RE for a more relaxed layout and a nice place to retire to.....

As above......not a chance that this will happen.

In airlines across the world seniority means getting wide body aircraft and the long haul lifestyle.

xflyer

Apparently there will be significant news in the next couple of days in regard to the EI/RE linkup. I'm not that sure what but it will be interesting, I hear.

It's also unlikely they'll be sharing pilots, EI has a certain standard that it applies. Also the state of the RE ATRs was a surprise to EI. Something that will change.

Tea 1000

xflyer wrote: »

Yes EI does have a history of that but really it was places like Bali and other far flung places rather than Waterford or whatever. But I could see some of the latest crop of cadets ending up in RE serving their apprenticeship.

It has to be said though back in the days of Aer Lingus Commuter, it was a popular gig. The sheds A330/A360s often didn't have autopilots and it was proper stick and rudder flying. This lasted into the Bae146 era when everyone knew everyone else. Once Commuter was absorbed into mainline there was a certain disappointment with the crews.

Somehow RE might be the new Commuter. Let's hope.

You mean S330 and S360's! I loved the 360, kind of a shed really alright, but so much character!!

xflyer

Apparently Commuter a good place to work at the time. It had it's own AOC and was airline within an airline and everyone knew everyone else.

The SD360 was also known as the Irish Concorde. Having said that, when the first Sheds arrived apparently, behind every inspection panel was written anti Irish and anti Catholic slogans. F the Pope and all that. Charming!

The latest I've heard is that it's unlikely cadets would find themselves flying ATRs.

Suits

xflyer wrote: »

The SD360 was also known as the Irish Concorde. Having said that, when the first Sheds arrived apparently, behind every inspection panel was written anti Irish and anti Catholic slogans. F the Pope and all that. Charming!

The latest I've heard is that it's unlikely cadets would find themselves flying ATRs.

Good old Northern Irish workmanship... at least they didn't go down on their maiden voyage...always a plus with their gear....

I mentioned the cadets on the ATRs as I believe it was mentioned here before, but also as I was told that due to the fact Aer Lingus had no crystal ball they didnt know if a large number of pilots would leave in the next 18 months due to EK etc recruitment leaving a large hole in the roster. In that case if the numbers could not be made up a DE may be run, meaning the 20 cadets would shuffle out of IR to find there was no space on the a320 fleet as staffing needs were met for the time being. It was suggested perhaps the Regional fleet may have some spaces, or as I mentioned on the cadetship thread they'd go into a pool(ATR being a better option).
I dont want to crank the rumor mill have it on good authority that Aer Lingus feared around new years that Emirates and Etihad were going to run a fairly large recruitment drive over the following 6 months and that a large number of A330 rated pilots may leave. That is where the suggestion of the ATR came from. What the case is now I dont know!

Tea 1000

xflyer wrote: »

Apparently Commuter a good place to work at the time. It had it's own AOC and was airline within an airline and everyone knew everyone else.

The SD360 was also known as the Irish Concorde. Having said that, when the first Sheds arrived apparently, behind every inspection panel was written anti Irish and anti Catholic slogans. F the Pope and all that. Charming!

Lovely. Hopefully those days are over, but goes to show the mentality of some people! Takes a couple of generations to wash that crap out!
The 360's were pushed out by the Fokker 50's weren't they? Then the Saab 340b's, which only seemed to be around for a year or two!

orionm_73

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The 360's were pushed out by the Fokker 50's weren't they? Then the Saab 340b's, which only seemed to be around for a year or two!

It was the SAAB 340's that replaced the Shorts 360's. The F50's in turn replaced the SAAB 340's. The F50's were retired in the early 2000's.

Kumsheen

Suits wrote: »

Well 1. Many RE FOs wouldnt mind moving to Aer Lingus I'd imagine. They may be 2 different companies but they are the same franchise and exchanging pilots would not be out of the question. Older EI captains would move to RE for a more relaxed layout and a nice place to retire to.

2. I have good hearing!:D

As others have already said, this is just a franchise agreement between EI and RE. There is nothing about taking control of Aer Arann or taking a financial stake. There are lots of Franchise operations around Europe already.

Another issue would be that EI would have different selection criteria than RE for Pilots, and while an Aer Arann Pilot might a be perfectly capable Pilot, they may just not what EI are looking for.

And the issue of EI Pilots going to RE, well there is the cost of it for a start. The whole reason to use Aer Arann in the first place is it's much lower cost base. If EI were going to put their own Pilots through a regional operation then they might as well set up their own Commuter again.

xflyer

Not just that, there were some adverse comments from EI about the training standards for pilots in RE.

Aer Arann pilots too have complained about this.

Tea 1000

orionm_73 wrote: »

It was the SAAB 340's that replaced the Shorts 360's. The F50's in turn replaced the SAAB 340's. The F50's were retired in the early 2000's.

Well... kind of. The F50's came in around 1990, but were used for the Dublin to Manchester type routes. The Saab 340's came closer to the mid-90's, and took the Shorts routes, but later they got rid of those again and just used the F50's. The odd time they'd use the F50's anyway instead of the Shorts or Saab if the passenger numbers were high. I used to see it in Sligo the odd time. I think it might have been around 1994 that the 340's came.