Jedi cause of own downfall

Surion

So I just saw Episode 1 in 3D last night - and my inner nerd just sprang forth!!!

Aren't the Jedi responsible, through their own hubris and stupidity, for their ultimate downfall, that of the republic and that of allowing the Sith to rise to power!

Referring to only the films (I haven't read any of the books), in the face of what looked to be an emerging threat - Yoda et al., decide to 'monitor' the situation but take no direct action.

Due to their lack of proper self-goverenence the Jedi council has no control over their own people (hardly hierarchical!) and facilitate a child where they all sense and fear him, into their midst!

Anyone else see this? Does this mean that they were blind to their own intuition and stuck up their own noses (hence the hubris comment) and through non-action facilitated their downfall?!

I'd be really interested to hear others throughts on how you see the progress from Jedi/Republic to Sith/Empire. I can't but see that they ineffectually allowed it all to fall down around them!!

Surion

Myrddin

Surion wrote: »

So I just saw Episode 1 in 3D last night - and my inner nerd just sprang forth!!!

Aren't the Jedi responsible, through their own hubris and stupidity, for their ultimate downfall, that of the republic and that of allowing the Sith to rise to power!

Referring to only the films (I haven't read any of the books), in the face of what looked to be an emerging threat - Yoda et al., decide to 'monitor' the situation but take no direct action.

Due to their lack of proper self-goverenence the Jedi council has no control over their own people (hardly hierarchical!) and facilitate a child where they all sense and fear him, into their midst!

Anyone else see this? Does this mean that they were blind to their own intuition and stuck up their own noses (hence the hubris comment) and through non-action facilitated their downfall?!

I'd be really interested to hear others throughts on how you see the progress from Jedi/Republic to Sith/Empire. I can't but see that they ineffectually allowed it all to fall down around them!!

Surion

I think your overestimating the role the Jedi had to play in the Republic. They were 'keepers of the peace' only, & had no direct control over political matters. I don't see how you could label them as stupid, blinded perhaps by all the conspiring, but again short of a coup there's little they could have done as the Republic, was, well, a Republic.

They did sense something odd about the boy, but then again, his arrival was prophesied & it was said 'the chosen one would restore balance to the force', which ultimately, he did.

It fell down around them because they had no political or military influence, they were simply a peace keeping institution. The real battle was fought & lost in the senate, with the people heralding their own demise really.

Surion

Yeah, ok grant, I accepted your premise there. I can't be calling them 'Republic killers'.

BUT...

Lets consider their own sphere of influence...that they can be held accountable for; they allowed (ultimately) Darth Vader, from within their midst! They failed to kill the Sith (of which one was now Chancellor) repeatedly. Should they not have had a (and I'm so sorry for using this term) a war on terror?

Prophecy or no, Yoda new of bad tidings, yet allowed his better judgement to be overtaken. Anakin (immediately prior to becoming Darth) was a total loose cannon...even Yoda was sensing this when he killed his mother. Surely the 'order' should have taken steps to remove him etc etc

Or any other of a hundred steps. I accept what your saying, and I'm aware that Yoda did say that the dark side clouds stuff & things...but still dont think it aswers their stupidity or hubris. ish.

Myrddin

Surion wrote: »

Lets consider their own sphere of influence...that they can be held accountable for; they allowed (ultimately) Darth Vader, from within their midst! They failed to kill the Sith (of which one was now Chancellor) repeatedly. Should they not have had a (and I'm so sorry for using this term) a war on terror?

Well they were leading a war on terror, until the allies [clones] turned on them when order 66 was initiated. That's the evil brilliance of the Emperors plan...he orchestrated the whole war, leading both sides, in order to justify the creation of the clone army.

Surion wrote:

Prophecy or no, Yoda new of bad tidings, yet allowed his better judgement to be overtaken. Anakin (immediately prior to becoming Darth) was a total loose cannon...even Yoda was sensing this when he killed his mother. Surely the 'order' should have taken steps to remove him etc etc

Well they were excluding Anakin of a lot of things, which only bred more frustration in him. They did sense his conflict, but he wasn't welcomed with open arms. Remember Mace Windu to Anakin? "If what you told me is true, you will have earned my trust". It was obvious the council didn't trust Anakin, which cyclically caused him to trust them less & push him towards Palpatine. Anakin was only one man, the war was much bigger than him in the eyes of the Jedi. The cloud of mistrust & haze is how its explained.

Surion wrote:

Or any other of a hundred steps. I accept what your saying, and I'm aware that Yoda did say that the dark side clouds stuff & things...but still dont think it aswers their stupidity or hubris. ish.

Curtailing Anakin though, would have it prevented civil war? The army was already created, the order ready to be given for them to switch sides...at best, Anakins only contribution was wiping out the other separatist leaders. I suppose though he did save the Emperors life when Windu had him down...but I'm sure the Emperor only put that show on to play to Anakins emotions. He had plenty of power left in him when Anakin struck, easily disposing of Windu