Have we forgotten about Guantanemo?

Memnoch

One thing that continues to baffle me about Americans, and especially right wing Americans is that they don't seem to have any understanding of the difference between terrorist and terrorist suspect.

How can they not see the difference? Do they think that the US military or any other authority is incapable of making mistakes? Is it because they think this kind of thing will never happen to them? What happens to their ideals of smaller government, accountability and rule of law?

Then there is this:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/28/guantanamo-detainees-get-new-750g-soccer-field/

And the majority of user comments along the lines of:

obama cuts the US Military Budget....but approves 750K for his mooslim brothers.

NEWS FLASH: Is1amic terr0rists now state that main reason for their atrocities is now NOT global jihad, but in hopes they can be caught, sent to Gitmo, and play soccer on the state of the art soccer field....compliments of US taxpayers.
This is infuriating!!!! Our Muzlim-In-Chief is a treasonous traiter, and MUST BE IMPEACHED!!!!

$750Gs_on_this_scum? Why don't we just beat them with a stick...HOURLY.

How can people, who I'm sure in their own lives are ordinary, decent human beings who try to do the right thing, be so filled with stupidity, hate and ignorance? Do they not see that they are perfect mirror images of the very extremist terrorists who want to blow them up?

But reading the comments on fox news articles at least helps in one way. I can see how people like Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Santorum and Romney can have a snowballs chance in hell of being elected to possibly the highest office in the entire world. If this is the level of mentality of the republican base.

What good is a democracy when it is built on ignorance, fear and hate? And how can we ever fix it?

matthew8

We've forgotten about Guantanamo because a dem is in the wh and few dem congressmen dare to cross the party line and obviously most republicans like gitmo, but I don't see your point. You cherry picked a bunch of comments from fox news, and I would say a fair few of the comments on fox are liberal trolls. As for why the republicans like gitmo, it's a mystery to me.

timesnap

Not forgetting that when Obama wanted some Guantanemo prisoners taken in by America's 'allies' prisons they refused on the grounds that it would leave them in a bigger danger of terrorist attacks.

Ireland accepted two but ssshhhh don't tell anybody.

RichieC

This is second term stuff for Mr O.

Manach

My understanding is that, under the US war powers act, to the US authorities this type of detention is just about legal. A fairly good book on how the system works is "The Challenge" by Jon Mahler
For me, the greater issue is the ones that do not make it to Guantanemo. The targets of aerial drone attacks in countries which the US is not at war with. How this can be legally justified is problematic to say the least.

dlofnep

Memnoch wrote: »

One thing that continues to baffle me about Americans, and especially right wing Americans is that they don't seem to have any understanding of the difference between terrorist and terrorist suspect.

They understand, they just don't care.

Memnoch

dlofnep wrote: »

They understand, they just don't care.

I'm not sure. I think if they really understood they couldn't help but care.

Amerika

As one of those right wing Americans, I'll just say... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Memnoch

Amerika wrote: »

As one of those right wing Americans, I'll just say... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Perhaps surprisingly, I expected better from you.

So now you don't believe in the presumption of innocence? I remember reading articles about how during the Afghan war and in the aftermath, people were pointing out and reporting anyone they had a grudge to settle with as a terrorist to the authorities. A lot of whom ended up in places like Abu Gharib where, of course, they were held indefinitely without trial and tortured.

It's just really baffling. On the one hand you have absolutely zero trust in the Obama administration, on the other you have absolute blind faith in the same administrations ability to not make a mistake when it comes to 'terrorist suspects.' Or for that matter drone strikes.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you just don't care, probably because they are all 'towel heads,' right, and the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim?

matthew8

Amerika wrote: »

As one of those right wing Americans, I'll just say... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Completely irrelevent analogy. Besides, doesn't everyone have the right to a trial? How can you possibly argue that a trial will not help you find out if they are a terrorist?

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

As one of those right wing Americans, I'll just say... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and everyone else says Its a Duck; you're damn right I will make sure for myself it isn't a Goose first." -Me

Critical Thinking dictates that oneself regularly verify that things are actually as they seem. In the case of Guantanamo detainees, that means actually speculating as to whether these detainees belong there. Even at worst, the Right is only daring enough to call them Terror Suspects. Why they are afraid of putting the suspects on trial is strange. They know they're innocent under the law? That they can't actually be proven guilty? And at the length of time they've been detained for (there is that word again) surely they hold no useful information at this point? They are as much a threat to the US as detainees as they are if released. The inane fear that they will become terrorists when released is beyond me: the fact that we are holding them is reason enough for groups that don't like us very much.

dlofnep

Amerika wrote: »

As one of those right wing Americans, I'll just say... If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

So would you prefer that to be the legal system in the US to replace a fair trial? Anyone who looks 'dodgy' might be a thief, or a drug user - No point in presenting evidence - so stick them in prison, right?

Amerika

Hmmm... I was under the belief we are fighting a WAR on terror, fought under the rules of war. When exactly did the war turn into a police investigative matter... or club med?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the same way you're fighting a war on drugs?
would you be ok seeing white middle class twenty somethings being abducted from their homes and deported to cuba indefinitely because they sold a few ounces of weed?

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Hmmm... I was under the belief we are fighting a WAR on terror, fought under the rules of war. When exactly did the war turn into a police investigative matter... or club med?

I'm sure you genuinely believe that, but it is not a War in any constitutional sense of the word.

Either way these were the types of lies fed to the Roman People when the Empire was expanding out for "Defensive purposes". The number of parallels I've seen are alarming.

mathepac

dlofnep wrote: »

So would you prefer that to be the legal system in the US to replace a fair trial? Anyone who looks 'dodgy' might be a thief, or a drug user - No point in presenting evidence - so stick them in prison, right?

But that is the system in the US right now.

Young, primarily black men, are being imprisoned for years without trial because:

• the courts system is so clogged that a judge cannot be assigned
• if a judge is assigned there is no public defender available to take the cases of these (inevitably poor) people because their case loads are immense
• they cannot raise the bail-money to get released before trial

These are private-enterprise prisons and some of them have federal charters, which means that they must contribute to their own up-keep. The way they do that is to have in-prison factories producing military paraphinalia - helmets, bullet-proof vests, uniforms, catering kits, webbing belts, boots etc. for sale to the Department of Defense [sic].

There is no competition or tendering process for this equipment, because under federal laws, the product of a federal prison system cannot be competed for by private enterprise in the market place.

So literally hundreds of thousands of young men are held in prison, guilty of nothing and working as slaves, making the owners of the prisons extremely wealthy.

matthew8

Amerika wrote: »

Hmmm... I was under the belief we are fighting a WAR on terror, fought under the rules of war. When exactly did the war turn into a police investigative matter... or club med?

Then why hasn't America declared war?

mathepac

matthew8 wrote: »

Then why hasn't America declared war?

Like through the various chains of command ending up at Prezidente's desk and have him make the formal declaration backed by the elected representatives of the people, when he's not quaffing porther with the Paddies?

But that might look democratic and we couldn't have that in modern America. After all, some decisions are so important that we can't let the people know who makes them.

RichieC

The US hasn't declared war since 1945. which is incredible for a country never out of the dam things.