Irish pre tax fuel prices are low!!!

Marcusm

Much as I dislike quoting the Daily Hate, see below a table of fuel prices (petrol and diesel) across Europe with a note also of the %age tax component.

Although Ireland's tax component for petrol is 6th highest at 57%, the actual price of the petrol is 12th on the list. I can see that distribution costs may be higher in some countries (especially those which spend lots of the year frozen) but I wondered if this is an indication of a high level of price competition in Ireland and a cross subsidisation of fuel prices by other items (breakfast rolls, other food/drink etc).

Soarer

Or maybe the countries with higher fuel prices incorporate their road tax into it.

Whereas we pay extra road tax, VRT, higher VAT, etc.

Anan1

Soarer wrote: »

Or maybe the countries with higher fuel prices incorporate their road tax into it.

Whereas we pay extra road tax, VRT, higher VAT, etc.

What he's saying is that our retail fuel prices are not as high relative to other countries as the % tax take would suggest.

keithclancy

I believe they took it from here

http://www.energy.eu/#Prices

Doing the Euro - Sterling conversion just confuses things as its been all over the place in the last few months, plus the nine non Euro currencies were converted to Euro and then converted to Sterling again when they made that table.

Tax wise you cannot really do a direct comparison, as they target different groups of people in different countries.

IMO owning a car in Ireland is rather cheap in relation to net income after Taxes.

smash

Mid Jan 122.9? I don't remember it being that low in Jan!

keithclancy

smash wrote: »

Mid Jan 122.9? I don't remember it being that low in Jan!

If you were paying in the Queens money it was

h3000

smash wrote: »

Mid Jan 122.9? I don't remember it being that low in Jan!

I think that's Sterling

joseph brand

Why are prices so high for everyone? Is it due to speculators and any other 'suits' or is it so that Arabs can build the tallest buildings in the world and ski in the snow?

creedp

keithclancy wrote: »

I believe they took it from here

http://www.energy.eu/#Prices

Doing the Euro - Sterling conversion just confuses things as its been all over the place in the last few months, plus the nine non Euro currencies were converted to Euro and then converted to Sterling again when they made that table.

Tax wise you cannot really do a direct comparison, as they target different groups of people in different countries.

IMO owning a car in Ireland is rather cheap in relation to net income after Taxes.

It may not be the most expensive place in the EU (the Nordics trump us there) but IMO it certainly couldn't be considered cheap. When you introduce the concept of 'net pay' you are really adding complexity to the argument .. define 'net pay'? Income after tax or disposable income after all necessary household expenditure has been taken care of? It seems to me you'd like to move back to this fine country with its high std of easy living and low taxation!!

Thud

GBP 1.22 = EUR 1.59 on Jan15th so probably about right

Viper_JB

Time to emigrate to Cyprus...

keithclancy

creedp wrote: »

It may not be the most expensive place in the EU (the Nordics trump us there) but IMO it certainly couldn't be considered cheap. When you introduce the concept of 'net pay' you are really adding complexity to the argument .. define 'net pay'? Income after tax or disposable income after all necessary household expenditure has been taken care of? It seems to me you'd like to move back to this fine country with its high std of easy living and low taxation!!

The Motor Tax and Cost to buy is cheap compared to here (basically due to the relatively high amount of second hand cars available)

With the Net Pay thing (I.E. what comes out net in your Payslip) my Irish Payslip was the Highest, German was next and then Dutch was the lowest (one reason being that private health insurance is mandatory)

Comparing like for like English products (only thing I could directly compare) between Ireland and Germany I cannot see any massive price difference.

Thats leaving out charges outside of whats stuck on your income.

e.g. Water Defense Charge, Water standing charge, Gas/Electric Standing charge , City Taxes, Regional Motor Tax, Dog License.

Then you have the pay per use Water/Electric/Gas.

Max Power1

keithclancy wrote: »

The Motor Tax and Cost to buy is cheap compared to here (basically due to the relatively high amount of second hand cars available)

Sorry, I cant believe that you just called the irish motor tax rates cheap!!(Unless the rates where you are are even crazier of course)

Irish rates are too high, compared to the UK and other EU countries (France or Germany for example)
France for example, have (afaik) no motor tax, all the tax is taken from fuel duty, yet their cost per litre is the same as here.

creedp

keithclancy wrote: »

The Motor Tax and Cost to buy is cheap compared to here (basically due to the relatively high amount of second hand cars available)

With the Net Pay thing (I.E. what comes out net in your Payslip) my Irish Payslip was the Highest, German was next and then Dutch was the lowest (one reason being that private health insurance is mandatory)

Comparing like for like English products (only thing I could directly compare) between Ireland and Germany I cannot see any massive price difference.

Thats leaving out charges outside of whats stuck on your income.

e.g. Water Defense Charge, Water standing charge, Gas/Electric Standing charge , City Taxes, Regional Motor Tax, Dog License.

Then you have the pay per use Water/Electric/Gas.

I suppose that's my point.. its difficult to compare disposable income across different countries. In Holland you have mandatory social/health insurance while in Ireland 50% of the population think that paying for PHI is an essential household expense .. either way is comes off disposable income and impacts what's left over for more discretionary expenditure. In any case I agree Ireland may not be the most expensive place to run a car in the EU but its certainly up there with the best of them ..

JerCotter7

England almost have it right with only 2% difference between petrol and diesel. If only it was 20% lower.

smash

keithclancy wrote: »

Comparing like for like English products (only thing I could directly compare) between Ireland and Germany I cannot see any massive price difference.

Go to UK, buy an Enzo and pay £250 a year road tax. Come to Ireland, buy a 530 and pay 2k a year motor tax.

creedp

JerCotter7 wrote: »

England almost have it right with only 2% difference between petrol and diesel. If only it was 20% lower.

Isn't that because the UK doesn't have a lower carbon levy on diesel as we have here .. i.e. they apply the same levy/higher levy on diesel as they do to petrol.

Marcusm

It's very sad that this should degrade into a discussion of relative tax costs when I was trying to stimulate a debate as to whether the pre tax cost of the fuel might indicate that fuel companies were not perpetrating rip offs in Ireland (unlike what is asserted about most sectors).

Let's get back to the my tax rate is higher than your tax rate rant. Maybe someone will also bring up that Irish tax take is higher to pay for higher public service pay rates and the thread can be closed!!

creedp

Marcusm wrote: »

It's very sad that this should degrade into a discussion of relative tax costs when I was trying to stimulate a debate as to whether the pre tax cost of the fuel might indicate that fuel companies were not perpetrating rip offs in Ireland (unlike what is asserted about most sectors).

Let's get back to the my tax rate is higher than your tax rate rant. Maybe someone will also bring up that Irish tax take is higher to pay for higher public service pay rates and the thread can be closed!!

The pre-tax prices are influenced by factors other than the price of a barrel of oil. The pre-tax cost of fuel in each EU country is determined by the cost of bringing it to the pump and includes the direct cost of importing it and the costs of distributing it and retailing it in each country. For instrance, what are the wage costs and other direct and indirect costs of a fuel retailer in Cyprus compared to Ireland. Now the point you are making is that even though the cost base of Irish fuel distibutors/retailers (including fuel taxes/income taxes/rates/etc/etc) is high our pre-tax fuel price is not as high as other countries and this suggests that fuel distributors are not making a killing in Ireland is a valid point especially given our small market and peripheral location within the EU. One issue for this might be currency flucations for non-euro states but having said that maybe we should applaud out fuel retailers and hope they don't see a opportunity to bring us up to the top of the heap!!

keithclancy

Max Power1 wrote: »

Sorry, I cant believe that you just called the irish motor tax rates cheap!!(Unless the rates where you are are even crazier of course)

Irish rates are too high, compared to the UK and other EU countries (France or Germany for example)
France for example, have (afaik) no motor tax, all the tax is taken from fuel duty, yet their cost per litre is the same as here.

BMW 520D Ireland - 156 / Year
BMW 520D Netherlands (Zuid Holland) - 1880 / Year
BMW 520D Germany (NRW) - 333 / year

Yeh, its pretty cheap in Ireland.

Plus in Ireland theres sh*t loads of choice on the second hand market since more people were buying a new car every 2 years.

In Germany and the Netherlands its much less competitive, second hand cars cost much more

In France you get raped by Tolls, Driving from my house to Roscoff is about 45 euros just in Tolls.

hi5

^^

A bit selective there, are we not?

keithclancy

hi5 wrote: »

^^

A bit selective there, are we not?

How so ?

A 2 Liter Diesel is what I wanted to buy, I got a Volvo V50 2.0D which is in a lighter weight class than the BMW.

That works out at 344 / quarter which is 1376 / year.

If I bought a Petrol I'd be paying 1.72 a liter.

creedp

keithclancy wrote: »

BMW 520D Ireland - 156 / Year
BMW 520D Netherlands (Zuid Holland) - 1880 / Year
BMW 520D Germany (NRW) - 333 / year

Yeh, its pretty cheap in Ireland.

Plus in Ireland theres sh*t loads of choice on the second hand market since more people were buying a new car every 2 years.

In Germany and the Netherlands its much less competitive, second hand cars cost much more

In France you get raped by Tolls, Driving from my house to Roscoff is about 45 euros just in Tolls.

That's the 520D phenomenon that has apparently caused such concern among the Irish ruling elite! I mean we show such concern for the common man here that taxing a 1 ltr fiesta in the same way as a 520D is morally unjustified according to inside sources ... hilarious. However, I think though that this will likely be partially addressed in the review of Motor Tax rates. So the gap may well close in future so long as we move away from a pure CO2 basis to one based wholly or partially on other factors such as purchase price/segment. By the way pre 2008 drivers are still being fleeced here for basic cars over 2L. There the 2nd morally unnaceptable scenario - if you are wealthy enough to buy a new car you pay less tax whereas if you can't afford to upgrade to a newer car we'll continue to fleece you all in the name of global warming

smash

keithclancy wrote: »

BMW 520D Ireland - 156 / Year
BMW 520D Netherlands (Zuid Holland) - 1880 / Year
BMW 520D Germany (NRW) - 333 / year

Yeh, its pretty cheap in Ireland.

That's only post 2008 and the government have stated that in the next budget they will be adjusting the motor tax system. I can see it being reverted again. They've lost hundreds of millions over that screw up by the greens.

hi5

keithclancy wrote: »

How so ?

A 2 Liter Diesel is what I wanted to buy, I got a Volvo V50 2.0D which is in a lighter weight class than the BMW.

That works out at 344 / quarter which is 1376 / year.

If I bought a Petrol I'd be paying 1.72 a liter.

Its a general discussion here.
Discussing what you want to buy, is being selective.

keithclancy

creedp wrote: »

That's the 520D phenomenon that has apparently caused such concern among the Irish ruling elite! I mean we show such concern for the common man here that taxing a 1 ltr fiesta in the same way as a 520D is morally unjustified according to inside sources ... hilarious. However, I think though that this will likely be partially addressed in the review of Motor Tax rates. So the gap may well close in future so long as we move away from a pure CO2 basis to one based wholly or partially on other factors such as purchase price/segment. By the way pre 2008 drivers are still being fleeced here for basic cars over 2L. There the 2nd morally unnaceptable scenario - if you are wealthy enough to buy a new car you pay less tax whereas if you can't afford to upgrade to a newer car we'll continue to fleece you all in the name of global warming

Yes thats true, however it was a bit of a Shock to find out that importing 2000 1.9 TDI Octavia into the Netherlands would mean paying 2700 euros in Import Tax (BPM) and then my Motortax would go from 511 euros / year to 1480 euros / year ( Lived in the Hague at the time back in 2007)

You could see why you'd be enticed to drive for as long as possible on Irish plates (as most people do actually)

I've seen plenty of RHD Cars cruising around the place in NL and in DE.

Guy that sits across the way from me in work saved a few thousand euros buying a car in the UK, registering it to his home address which he has rented out and then just driving it on Third Party over in Germany on UK Plates for as long as possible.

Not really legal, but everyone does it.

hi5 wrote: »

Its a general discussion here.
Discussing what you want to buy, is being selective.

There you go, its 3 cases now, its not general anymore

Max Power1

keithclancy wrote: »

BMW 520D Ireland - 156 / Year
BMW 520D Netherlands (Zuid Holland) - 1880 / Year
BMW 520D Germany (NRW) - 333 / year

Yeh, its pretty cheap in Ireland.

Plus in Ireland theres sh*t loads of choice on the second hand market since more people were buying a new car every 2 years.

In Germany and the Netherlands its much less competitive, second hand cars cost much more

In France you get raped by Tolls, Driving from my house to Roscoff is about 45 euros just in Tolls.

Yes its cheap, if you take the people able to afford a new car.

For the (vast majority) rest of us howver, a standard car like my golf 1.9 TDI is €600 p/a. Your comparison is like comparing bricks to sand. Just because holland has an even more ridiculous tax rate than here doesnt mean here is cheap.

Tolls, for example, can be avoided in france. And as for the price of cars second hand in germany, that is totally irelevant to the topic at hand

keithclancy

Max Power1 wrote: »

Yes its cheap, if you take the people able to afford a new car.

For the (vast majority) rest of us howver, a standard car like my golf 1.9 TDI is €600 p/a. Your comparison is like comparing bricks to sand. Just because holland has an even more ridiculous tax rate than here doesnt mean here is cheap.

Tolls, for example, can be avoided in france. And as for the price of cars second hand in germany, that is totally irelevant to the topic at hand

^^ See above, I'm in the same boat, I wouldn't buy a new car, affording it is a completely seperate thing, but I prefer to have the savings up front than finance it with a loan.

Joe 90

hi5 wrote: »

^^

A bit selective there, are we not?

Yes, that's what I thought. I'd like to see the figures for an M5.

smash

I'm on a UK IP here and just got this ad on the bottom of the page

keithclancy

smash wrote: »

Go to UK, buy an Enzo and pay £250 a year road tax. Come to Ireland, buy a 530 and pay 2k a year motor tax.

Like I said, I can't find English product thats cheaper in Germany than in Ireland.