Earthlings

Stressica

I apologize if this in in the wrong forum, i couldnt find a film section to post it in?
Earthlings is a documentary that was made a few years back, it discusses and shows the a[ppauling treatment of all the animals that man abuses, from fur farms, to slaughter to abuse in factory farms.

its availabile on youtube in its entirety or you can view it in segments. Its also availabile to buy on DVD.

It changed my and my families life for good, now vegans we refuse to take part in the attrocities that go on in front of our eye yet many people chose to ignore. Its one of the best films ever made and if you really care about animals and want to make a difference and understand what really goes on, I'd recommend viewing.

it is however very graphic but its the truth and its what happens everyday, to billions of animals kept in filthy conditions for human greed.

Don't just bury your head in the sand and ignore it because you don't like it.

have any of you seen it? opinions?

shayleon

Earthling is the reason I am vegan as well. Was vegetarian before I saw it.

Another film that is worth seeing and veganised many people is Gary Yourofsky's lecture, which really answers everything that a carnist might ask you (less horrifying than earthling). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

Serendipity99

Earthlings has become known as the 'vegan-maker'. I know many people who've become vegan as a result of seeing this movie.

--LOS--

I think Earthlings has been mentioned around here before, you're kinda preaching to the wrong audience here as we are all either vegan or vegetarian here so we don't 'bury our heads in the sand'.

shayleon

Vegetarians bury their head in the sand big time. There is more cruelty in a glass of milk than in a steak. Perhaps though this is for a different thread. I actually think 2 separate groups, one for vegans and a separate for vegetarians would have been a much better idea.

--LOS--

shayleon wrote: »

Vegetarians bury their head in the sand big time. There is more cruelty in a glass of milk than in a steak. Perhaps though this is for a different thread. I actually think 2 separate groups, one for vegans and a separate for vegetarians would have been a much better idea.

I'm not really understanding how you can say that tbh! You think that vegetarians and vegans should have separate forums? Vegetarians and vegans are very much on the same page imo.

shayleon

Please see Gary's video. It's really fun to watch - the guy is amazing. It's much better than me quoting him. I know vegetarians have much more empathy than carnists, but perhaps some lack information.

--LOS--

I've seen plenty of videos like this before, I also grew up on a dairy farm.

shayleon

and don't you think that the dairy industry is also cruel?

kirw2n

shayleon wrote: »

and don't you think that the dairy industry is also cruel?

With regards to animal welfare, the dairy industry is actually quite tame here in Ireland compared with USA. If I lived in USA, id avoid anything with dairy in it full stop!
That said, dairy products are nonetheless not very good for you in the long run, which is why I stay away from them.. Plus they cause flatulence. o_O lol.

Anyway, about Earthlings, I've seen it, and what bothers me is when I would try to introduce people to it, they would refuse to watch it, or give out to me for posting links to it on Facebook etc.. I think that dangerous attitude should be discussed.

Stressica

@Los i apologise for sounding rude but do you not think vegitarians (to some extent) bury their heads when it comes to the dairy&egg industry? thats not directed just to you, im talking in general..

i wanted to post it in a section for films etc but i couldnt find one?

'Shayleon i agree with you completly, i must yet watch that speech, heard it's amazing and powerful, when i get some more mb on my modem im sure gonna watch it (: i also agree with you in many ways that vegans and vegitarians should perhaps have a different section just because vegans and vegitarians seeem to have different beliefs (eg veggies still eat dairy etc) and also for recipes etc, although thats a vbery minor issue and easy to fix.

@Kirw2n; I agree completly and i also have isssue with people who refuse to watch these things and would remain ignorant, i think its just guilt.. and refusing to admit that what they are contributing is wrong.

mpdg

shayleon wrote: »

Earthling is the reason I am vegan as well. Was vegetarian before I saw it.

Another film that is worth seeing and veganised many people is Gary Yourofsky's lecture, which really answers everything that a carnist might ask you (less horrifying than earthling). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

Gary Yourofsky is what pushed me wholly into vegetarianism, and now veganism. I had been toying with the idea of changing my habits for a while but his speech changed my thinking completely.

Little Alex

I watched it. It is intensely harrowing, for anyone who is considering giving it a go.

By that, I mean a cow being branded in the face. Its fur caught fire. A cow having its horns cut off with boltcutters. A living dog being thrown into a bin lorry crusher. The look of sheer terror on the face of a piglet ahortly before being slaughtered was for me one of the most upsetting images. The banality of the cruelty added to the impact, as did the hectoring and harsher punishment still meted out to animals who had the audacity to be panicked and frightened.

I think that while some areas covered by it do happen in Ireland - such as the practice of euthanasia of animals in state-run pounds - many do not. At least I don't think they do.

--LOS--

Stressica wrote: »

@Los i apologise for sounding rude but do you not think vegitarians (to some extent) bury their heads when it comes to the dairy&egg industry? thats not directed just to you, im talking in general..

i wanted to post it in a section for films etc but i couldnt find one?

No, like I said I've seen first hand what goes on on a dairy farm in Ireland, I fail to see where the cruelty is. I think all vegetarians and many non-vegetarians understand the cruelty involved in battery egg farms, I've been in one myself since there used to be one just up the road from me so no I don't bury my head in the sand, quite the opposite since I've seen all this stuff first hand.

shayleon

--LOS-- wrote: »

No, like I said I've seen first hand what goes on on a dairy farm in Ireland, I fail to see where the cruelty is.

Are the calfs taken away from their moms so you can have their milk? Are these calfs go and become veal?

blatantrereg

shayleon wrote: »

Are the calfs taken away from their moms so you can have their milk? Are these calfs go and become veal?

You seem to be saying that cows are constantly giving birth to calves which are slaughtered for veal so that they keep producing milk. Is that what you are saying?

Where does the veal go then? I've never even seen veal for sale.

Do you know that cows dont need to keep giving birth to keep them producing milk?

Your previous post says that vegetarians are missing information..

shayleon

blatantrereg wrote: »

You seem to be saying that cows are constantly giving birth to calves which are slaughtered for veal so that they keep producing milk. Is that what you are saying?

Where does the veal go then? I've never even seen veal for sale.

Do you know that cows dont need to keep giving birth to keep them producing milk?

Veal is available for sale and most of it is exported.

NO mammal can produce milk endlessly. Biological fact. Cows have to be impregnated once a year to continue to produce milk and their calves are taken away from them a few days after birth.

Dairy cows live about 5 years, while cows in nature live to about 20.

Don't take my word for any of it - google it.

blatantrereg

shayleon wrote: »

Veal is available for sale and most of it is exported.

NO mammal can produce milk endlessly. Biological fact. Cows have to be impregnated once a year to continue to produce milk and their calves are taken away from them a few days after birth.

Dairy cows live about 5 years, while cows in nature live to about 20.

Don't take my word for any of it - google it.

oh that's interesting. Actually humans can produce milk pretty much endlessly. They only stop when the milk stops being used. That's how people used to be wetnurses. I assumed it would be the same for cows, especially considering the fact they've been selectively bred to produce lots of milk. Maybe we should switch to using human milk for dairy products. It's got to be more natural if you think of the two things objectively, and humans dont produce loads of greenhouse gases like cows do.

shayleon

blatantrereg wrote: »

oh that's interesting. Actually humans can produce milk pretty much endlessly. They only stop when the milk stops being used. That's how people used to be wetnurses. I assumed it would be the same for cows, especially considering the fact they've been selectively bred to produce lots of milk.

Good point about the wetnurses, but indeed with cows it's different.

blatantrereg wrote: »

Maybe we should switch to using human milk for dairy products. It's got to be more natural if you think of the two things objectively, and humans dont produce loads of greenhouse gases like cows do.

or... maybe have soy, almond, rice, oat and many other kinds of tasty milks (have to admit soy milk is an acquired taste - first time I had it I thought it was awful, but I really enjoy it now).

Besides, cows milk is one of the most unhealthy things in the universe.
Full film: video.rol.ro/forks-over-knives-55557.htm
Preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ijukNzlUg

blatantrereg

shayleon wrote: »

Good point about the wetnurses, but indeed with cows it's different.


or... maybe have soy, almond, rice, oat and many other kinds of tasty milks (have to admit soy milk is an acquired taste - first time I had it I thought it was awful, but I really enjoy it now).

Besides, cows milk is one of the most unhealthy things in the universe.
Full film: video.rol.ro/forks-over-knives-55557.htm
Preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ijukNzlUg

It's at least an exageration to say it's one of the unhealthiest things in the universe

I'm aware of health arguments against it. For example, the rates of certain cancers are very low in countires where they dont consume dairy in general. A family member quit consuming dairy almost entirely for years for that reason, and they weren't even vegetarian. In fact I myself cosnumed no cow's milk in my primary school years on medical advice because of asthma [which just kinda went away when I reached puberty for some reason]. The impact of consuming dairy in the USA is unquestionable - cattle there are treated with growth hormones which are illegal here because of the clear link with cancer.

I'm aware of the environmental arguments also. Cows produce a surprisingly high level of greenhouse gases, aside from the inefficiency of animal products as a source of food in general.

And I'm aware that it's not optimal for the cows, from the PoV that bulls are obviously going to be killed at some point - and then there are the points you make about their welfare here.

That just leaves indulgence and convenience really. I do like all forms of dairy products. I also think it would be pretty inconvenient in some ways - both eating in and out. Indian restaurants are great for giving options for the latter to vegetarians - but genuine Indian cooking ought to be with ghee, which is butterfat. Almost all pizza is crossed off the list for both categories. Eggs fried in butter are just an extremely tasty thing to eat, if you do it right. Chocolate, toffee...hm what junk food would you have left?

As for eggs, well I'm not aware of the same number of arguments behind abstaining from them, as long as you only choose free range ones. Obviously there are going to be some dead roosters along the way, but I'm betting that there will still be someone who wants to eat them anyway by the time I have land to keep some chickens - even if I never do. [I'd be picky about the breeds of chicken too.]

Maybe I'll exclude dairy apart from butter and ghee. I cant see many people taking butter-octo vegetarianism seriously though. But a general attitude of minimising dairy consumption is a certainly a good idea alright, possibly as far as replacing cow's milk with organic soy milk.

shayleon

blatantrereg wrote: »

It's at least an exageration to say it's one of the unhealthiest things in the universe

Compared to cyanide and gas it is exaggerated, but it is still seriously bad stuff, which causes calcium (!) to leak from your bones. Statistically the more a country consumes milk products - the more people there suffer from osteoporosis.

blatantrereg wrote: »

I'm aware of health arguments against it. For example, the rates of certain cancers are very low in countires where they dont consume dairy in general. A family member quit consuming dairy almost entirely for years for that reason, and they weren't even vegetarian. In fact I myself cosnumed no cow's milk in my primary school years on medical advice because of asthma [which just kinda went away when I reached puberty for some reason]. The impact of consuming dairy in the USA is unquestionable - cattle there are treated with growth hormones which are illegal here because of the clear link with cancer.

I'm aware of the environmental arguments also. Cows produce a surprisingly high level of greenhouse gases, aside from the inefficiency of animal products as a source of food in general.

And I'm aware that it's not optimal for the cows, from the PoV that bulls are obviously going to be killed at some point - and then there are the points you make about their welfare here.

That just leaves indulgence and convenience really. I do like all forms of dairy products. I also think it would be pretty inconvenient in some ways - both eating in and out. Indian restaurants are great for giving options for the latter to vegetarians - but genuine Indian cooking ought to be with ghee, which is butterfat. Almost all pizza is crossed off the list for both categories.

Most Indian restaurants in Ireland use oil and not ghee. Indian food is my favourite so when eating outside I ask. Perhaps the traditional way is indeed with Ghee, but the food still tastes great with oil. Eating outside, in many places pizza can still be a problem (home made ones with veg, oregano and tomatoes are awesome!). Hopefully Daiya will get to Ireland soon!

blatantrereg wrote: »

Eggs fried in butter are just an extremely tasty thing to eat, if you do it right. Chocolate, toffee...hm what junk food would you have left?

As for eggs, well I'm not aware of the same number of arguments behind abstaining from them, as long as you only choose free range ones. Obviously there are going to be some dead roosters along the way, but I'm betting that there will still be someone who wants to eat them anyway by the time I have land to keep some chickens - even if I never do. [I'd be picky about the breeds of chicken too.]

Unfortunately egg industry sucks too. I don't know the exact numbers for Ireland, but in Israel, which is only a bit more populated, 4.5 million male chicks are killed every year by the egg industry, simply cause they cannot produce eggs. (some being grind to death, some simply put in plastic bags one of top of the other and when the bag is full it's been closed and they suffocate)

One of my favourite chocolate, even if I ate dairy would have been ALDI's 70% cocoa, Belgium, free trade chocolate. It has no dairy and is really one of the best chocolate I ever ate.

blatantrereg wrote: »

Maybe I'll exclude dairy apart from butter and ghee. I cant see many people taking butter-octo vegetarianism seriously though. But a general attitude of minimising dairy consumption is a certainly a good idea alright, possibly as far as replacing cow's milk with organic soy milk.

sounds like a plan !

Serendipity99

Hi guys,
Don't know if you remember this, but I promised a while back that I would be setting up a website with statistics and facts from the Dept. of Agriculture which would help clarify the situation regarding the dairy industry in Ireland.

We know that a percentage of calves are sent abroad for veal. However, there is also a percentage that are allowed to stay with the mother before being sold or raised for 'beef'.

Can I ask if any of you, for example, -LOS-, who have experience on dairy farms, if you would email me at: corkvegans@gmail.com so that I can ask you for your views on the dairy industry here. I would really appreciate this.

Thanks people!

blatantrereg

Serendipity99 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Don't know if you remember this, but I promised a while back that I would be setting up a website with statistics and facts from the Dept. of Agriculture which would help clarify the situation regarding the dairy industry in Ireland.

We know that a percentage of calves are sent abroad for veal. However, there is also a percentage that are allowed to stay with the mother before being sold or raised for 'beef'.

Can I ask if any of you, for example, -LOS-, who have experience on dairy farms, if you would email me at: corkvegans@gmail.com so that I can ask you for your views on the dairy industry here. I would really appreciate this.

Thanks people!

You might get a better response on the farming forum maybe.

Serendipity99

@blatantreg:
Are you kidding me - they'd probably tell me to take a hike! :eek:

Anyways, ya, maybe I'll post on there at some stage when I'm feeling braver, cheers!

Stressica

Thanks for the replies guys, unfortunately i never realized people had replied, i'd assumed after a few days that the replies had ended and i never bothered returning to this thread.


as for what blatantreg said,
I'm up for feeling brave and i may post something on the farmers section later when i am at home have a fair idea of what i'll get though i know what farmers can be like having actually worked with them when i was younger (milking cows etc) I also worked with a vet while on work experience and saw the liked of dehorning with a saw and the electrical current thing which i thought is illegal in Ireland??

blatantrereg

I watched it since looking at this thread last.

The dog being thrown into the trash compactor was a particularly distressing image. I turned it off for a good while at that point. Overall the film just filled me with hate really.

Stressica

yes that's what it did to me too, the part that distressed me most was the monkeys being tied down and treated as crash dummies. more people i think should see this film. did it change the way you feel about animals and their production for food? apart from the whole filling you with hate?

blatantrereg

Stressica wrote: »

yes that's what it did to me too, the part that distressed me most was the monkeys being tied down and treated as crash dummies. more people i think should see this film. did it change the way you feel about animals and their production for food? apart from the whole filling you with hate?

No. I already considered that objectionable so it was preaching to the converted really. That's a thing about films like that - the audience tends to be mainly people who already agree with the politics.

It might have made me inclined to hate people who disagree with me. Not sure how that could be considered positive.

Stressica

oh okay, yeah i get what yo/u mean by its mainly people who agree that watch them, are you vegan?

blatantrereg

Nope vegetarian, though I have pretty much eliminated dairy from my diet the last few weeks, as per my post above. [Well a bit more than suggested above since I've been cutting out butter and ghee as well.] I decided to do that before watching the film though.

Tilikum

Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but I just watched this today. Truly harrowing stuff.

I just have a question about Dairy farming in Ireland. It says in the movie that a dairy cow will live for only 5 yrs. (20 in the wild)

Is that in Ireland too? Or is he talking about America?