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Headset in Serious Trouble

  • 27-02-2012 8:41pm
    #1
    busyliving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭


    Hey all,

    I was out on the bike on the weekend and noticed a noise from what i can only assume was my headset...

    So i just had a look at it today, and the picture is below...

    The bolt seems to have rust on it...

    What are my options?

    Also the fork is Carbon, if that's relevant...

    http://yfrog.com/z/hsg7xcgj


Comments

  • #2
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    busyliving wrote: »
    Hey all,

    I was out on the bike on the weekend and noticed a noise from what i can only assume was my headset...

    So i just had a look at it today, and the picture is below...

    The bolt seems to have rust on it...

    What are my options?

    Also the fork is Carbon, if that's relevant...

    http://yfrog.com/z/hsg7xcgj

    I think a rusty bolt hole shouldn't cause a noise or effect the operation of the headset. The only thing you'd have to worry about is the bolt seizing. But if there's rust there, then the bearings may be corroded and that will be a problem. So I'd take a look at them. If they are, the headset would need to be replaced.


  • #3
    busyliving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭busyliving


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    I think a rusty bolt hole shouldn't cause a noise or effect the operation of the headset. The only thing you'd have to worry about is the bolt seizing. But if there's rust there, then the bearings may be corroded and that will be a problem. So I'd take a look at them. If they are, the headset would need to be replaced.

    Bring it into the shop in the morning so...

    How must would a replacement cost(off the top of your head, a guestimation if you will)


  • #4
    busyliving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭busyliving


    busyliving wrote: »
    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    I think a rusty bolt hole shouldn't cause a noise or effect the operation of the headset. The only thing you'd have to worry about is the bolt seizing. But if there's rust there, then the bearings may be corroded and that will be a problem. So I'd take a look at them. If they are, the headset would need to be replaced.

    Bring it into the shop in the morning so...

    How must would a replacement cost(off the top of your head, a guestimation if you will)
    The noise is like a creaking noise meant to mention in my OP


  • #5
    Tonyandthewhale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭Tonyandthewhale


    How does the headset actually feel? Rust doesn't necessarily mean it's banjaxed. If the bearings still feel smooth and the only problem is the noise then the problem might not be in the headset at all. Weird noises are often incredibly hard to properly diagnose.


  • #6
    busyliving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭busyliving


    Tonyandthewhale wrote: »
    How does the headset actually feel? Rust doesn't necessarily mean it's banjaxed. If the bearings still feel smooth and the only problem is the noise then the problem might not be in the headset at all. Weird noises are often incredibly hard to properly diagnose.

    It actually feels very smooth to be fair


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  • #7
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,310 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Creaking noises could be from the pedals, handlebar stem, headset, seatpost and maybe the BB (though very unlikely to be the BB).

    My moneys on the pedals. Remove them, grease the treads and refit ( make sure there tight!)


  • #8
    busyliving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭busyliving


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Creaking noises could be from the pedals, handlebar stem, headset, seatpost and maybe the BB (though very unlikely to be the BB).

    My moneys on the pedals. Remove them, grease the treads and refit ( make sure there tight!)

    Pedals were just put on two weeks ago, and there was no issue last week...

    The noise is coming from the front of the bike, may be the stem tho


  • #9
    iregk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    When cycling and the noise is happening take your hands off the bars (providing you can ride with no hands!). This will take the weight off the bars and if the noise stops then chances are you have a headset problem. If the bearings are smooth and no pull or grinding feel then all that may be required is a slight tighten. Loosen the stem bolts and tighten a touch the cap bolt (top, vertical one) then tighten the stem again. Could just have worked a little loose.

    Failing that it could be a number of things, seat, bar, pedals etc... Try some troubleshooting when on the bike. As above, take hands off the bar, is problem still happening? Likely not to be the headset so. Get out of the saddle, problem still happening? Likely not to be the saddle or bar. Stop peddling... you get the idea...


  • #10
    Lusk Doyle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭Lusk Doyle


    Hold the gearing cables at the adjusters (assuming they are on the down tube). My bike is making the same creaking noise but when I tauten the cables it stops. It appears that the junction between the cables and the adjuster should be taken apart and grease/lube applied. Imagine the cross section of the cables as having 10 individual strands - the gaps/ends of these are what causes the noise (my trusty mechanic has informed me!). I'm getting mine done on Wednesday incidentally but I'm also changing the headset and stem too anyway as I sheared a bolt when tightening the other day!


  • #11
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Carbon fork? Doubtful they don't fit star nuts to carbon fork, just expanding bungs.

    Noise could be coming from stem/bars, cables, etc.

    Generally a worn headset will present itself as stiffness or roughness in steering before anything else.


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  • #12
    check_six
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    I had a horrible noise coming from the front of the bike that was being caused by a headset problem. Specifically the headset was working itself loose and rattling around in the head tube! :O

    If you are tending to believe the problem is coming from the headset you can check it by looking for lateral movement of the fork in the head tube. Apply your front brakes and rock the bike back and forwards, then try the same thing again but turn the front wheel 90degrees to the rest of the frame. If you get any amount of play at any point you will need to tighten the headset.

    The way to tighten up your headset is first to loosen the two bolts on the back of the stem. These two bolts keep everything in place, the bolt in the cap is there to squeeze all the parts together to allow you to tighten the two bolts in the stem at the right position. If everything is adjusted correctly you could take the cap off entirely once the stem is in place and you would be ok.

    Once the stem bolts are loose, loosen the tension on the cap bolt. Move the parts about a wee bit so that you can make sure everything is seated correctly. There are ball bearing races at the top and bottom of the head tube. See if these look okay. I had a bike previously where the race had disintegrated and I was turning on loose ball bearings and bits of random chewed up metal that used to hold the bearings. These races are very cheap to replace, if I remember correctly. Assuming everything looks alright, proceed to pack the headset together again. Push the stem down firmly and begin to put a bit of tension on the cap bolt. As you put tension on the cap bolt the headset will pack tighter together, use the brakes again to test for play. You do not want to overtighten the cap bolt as it could squeeze the races and damage them, or pull the star nut out of the fork, also the turning the wheel will be too stiff.

    When the cap bolt is tightened to the correct level of goldilocksness, you will have no lateral play in the fork and no stiffness when turning the forks. You can then start to tighten up the stem bolts. Do a bit on one, then a bit on the other until they are both tight. They hold the whole shebang together so they are important to get right. As you are working on a carbon fork you may want to get your hands on a torque wrench to avoid any mistakes at this point.

    If I was to describe the level of tightness required for your stem bolts I would say fairly tight with an extra half turn for luck, but not mad tight. The torque required is normally stamped on the stem (5NM is typical). Maybe someone else could describe this better? I got a torque wrench because I had not worked on a carbon fork before.

    A problem I had was that I had a carbon fork and the star nut inside the fork tube kept sliding up the tube as I tightened the cap bolt, so nothing was packing together. It turned out that the particular type of star nut in my bike had a reverse threaded bolt underneath it that you had to turn first to get the star nut to clamp in place. Even after discovering this I was still having problems as I did not tighten this nut enough to stop it sliding up the tube. The bike mechanic in my lbs fixed this by giving the reverse thread bolt an almighty twist. I think I let out an audible squeak as I started to imagine shattering carbon all over the place, but seven months on everything is still spot on and the bike has had no recurring problems.

    In your picture you have some rust on the star nut, as long as the headset cap is not rattling loose this will not cause you any problems. As I said before, the stem bolts do all the work, so this star nut is only to help set up the fork initially. It is possible to get new ones if required. In metal forks the star nut would dig into the fork so they were nigh on impossible to remove. You would be looking at shoving a second one into the tube on top of the old one if you had a problem. In a carbon fork the star nut may slide out, it was certainly sliding out on my bike, but it was a different design to yours. The star nut should be a cheap component to replace if required. The fork and the stem are the expensive bits relatively so as long as there is nothing wrong with them you should be okay.


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