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Lifestyle of inter county player

  • 25-02-2012 8:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 659 ✭✭✭


    With all the talk recently of payment to managers and amateur players, i wondered is there any current or former inter county players on here that could give a insight into the demands of being involved in a county set up as in the amount of sacrifices they make, amount of training, off the booze, diet etc. In my own opinion they are amateur only in name with the amount of training they have to put in.Was talking recently to a player involved with his county team and he was telling me he trains 6 nights a week, 2 times with the team which involves him leaving his house at 630 and arriving home at 1130 totally wrecked and 4 other nights on his own in the gym .He says it has taking over his life but he wouldn t have it any other way.Now thats commitment and when ya think of what them ponces are payed in the premier league!


Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    k mac wrote: »
    With all the talk recently of payment to managers and amateur players, i wondered is there any current or former inter county players on here that could give a insight into the demands of being involved in a county set up as in the amount of sacrifices they make, amount of training, off the booze, diet etc. In my own opinion they are amateur only in name with the amount of training they have to put in.Was talking recently to a player involved with his county team and he was telling me he trains 6 nights a week, 2 times with the team which involves him leaving his house at 630 and arriving home at 1130 totally wrecked and 4 other nights on his own in the gym .He says it has taking over his life but he wouldn t have it any other way.Now thats commitment and when ya think of what them ponces are payed in the premier league!

    Its insane really what amateur athletes are expected to do and thats before you mention all the promotional work outside of training. Wouldnt know their schedule per se but id say its fairly hectic


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 808 ✭✭✭Jimbobjoeyman


    I'm still quiet young (17)
    But I've played a bit of county hurling underage and even then the commitment is alot.

    Training for 2 hours, 2-3 times a week depending on the time of the year.
    Having to leave for training at 6 and not getting home till half ten because the training grounds are in the arsehole of nowhere.


    Can just imagine how much more extreme the senior set-up is :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Meh, it's their decision. They obviously enjoy it or they wouldn't bother. Inter county players are better looked after than those who don't make inter county, even if they do have to put a bit more team training + travelling in. Also I can't speak for every inter county player but I know quite a few who drink as much as any joe bloggs for most the year, they do tone it down come championship time, however!

    Their commitment is great considering they essentially get nothing in return. I guess that's what makes the GAA so good though, the amateur aspect of it and the fact that everyone actually gives a phuck and there are no doubts as to who is there just to pick up a wage packet.

    I think those playing for university, club and county deserve a particular mention even if many of those aren't supporting a family! Physically taxing is what comes to mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,656 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    I used to love with an inter-county player from Tipp when I was in first year in UCD(2007). What he would have to do amazed me. Played for Tipp, UCD, did Veterinary course.

    While he wouldn't train with Tipp all the time, he did it twice a week, driving back to Dublin after training. He would then train with UCD some of the other days, 2/3 days I think. And then all this on top of a course that doesn't exactly make life too easy without anything else in the frame.

    Crazy stuff, and while I may say things about players I don't like, one thing I will never question is their commitment to the game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    giants of men, plain and simple...


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Mushy wrote: »
    I used to love with an inter-county player from Tipp when I was in first year in UCD(2007). What he would have to do amazed me. Played for Tipp, UCD, did Veterinary course.

    While he wouldn't train with Tipp all the time, he did it twice a week, driving back to Dublin after training. He would then train with UCD some of the other days, 2/3 days I think. And then all this on top of a course that doesn't exactly make life too easy without anything else in the frame.

    Crazy stuff, and while I may say things about players I don't like, one thing I will never question is their commitment to the game.

    Say that was probably Paul Ormonde from Loughmore you were living with. Ginger haired guy and a decent corner back by all accounts. Probably never fulfilled his true potential for us but perhaps im being harsh as that probably is owing to his demanding schedule while he was in college


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Denis Murphy of Carlow and Mount Leinster Rangers was travelling back from Glasgow to hurl for them recetnly and Ciaran McManus (to and fro Southampton) and Westmeaths Bryan Smith (to and fro London) faced similar hectic arrangements.

    Some commitment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,656 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Say that was probably Paul Ormonde from Loughmore you were living with. Ginger haired guy and a decent corner back by all accounts. Probably never fulfilled his true potential for us but perhaps im being harsh as that probably is owing to his demanding schedule while he was in college

    Yup was him. Committed to say the least.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Denis Murphy of Carlow and Mount Leinster Rangers was travelling back from Glasgow to hurl for them recetnly and Ciaran McManus (to and fro Southampton) and Westmeaths Bryan Smith (to and fro London) faced similar hectic arrangements.

    Some commitment
    Afaik eoin sheehey from st Bridget us studying in Liverpool and has been travelling over during their connacht and ai campaigns, so not just at county level


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    I'm going back to the early 90's here. For 4 months from Feb to May between Sigerson, Fitzgibbon, Club & County, sessions & games would total approx. 105 to 110 training sessions & games, over a 4 year period. For the other 8 months, 2 to 3.5 months are more or less on your own bat and the balance is the summer period depends really how far you go in various competitions. I'd say the summer period was 3-5 days a week.

    We didn't know as much about training, diet and a whole host of things that we (should) know about now. Back then and in alot it cases still the case, training sessions are bordering on crucifying fellas. Mgt. set ups dont know anything about the value of rest and recovery sessions, its brut force with alot of them. The GAA in general are still miles behind other sports from a fitness and diet point of view.

    My heart goes out to guys who get injured, especially between the ages of 16 & 21. For a number of reasons.
    - it's the time that they are developing into adult players and in most cases they never catch up properly afterwards.
    - it's a crucial time for their education and future careers and IMO injured players do not perform academically, they need sport to blow off steam to compliment their studies. Just because your injured and spending more time studying as a result, I've rarely seen results improve, quite the contrary actually.
    - more often than not injured players suffer a recurrence of the injury and unfortunately the injury sometimes becomes chronic leading to them leaving the game. It's caused playing catch up by the gap created by being laid off while other players are training and playing games.

    Theres lots of Diarmuid Duggans (cork) out there.

    GAA is not professional, it's not comparible to professional sports for one simple reason, we have to go out to work to make a living. GAA training regime is far tougher and harder on the body because it's being packed into one session every evening. Pro's can do up to 3 sessions a day, shorter, recovery is a big part of it and of course the emphasis on diet and wellbeing.

    IMO, I think a PRO game in both codes is not much more than 25 years away, maybe much less. I also think (hopefully when it does happen) that it will be an organisation completely separate from the GAA and GPA ( and again I hope it's a separate organisation).

    Is there a market for it now? That's the question. Diehards would like to have you believe that there isn't. A few 'dragons' out there would believe that there is, especially with the resurgence of the games in the States and with more and more ex pats in Canada, Austrailia and other parts of Europe and Asia. I'd love to see a Super 15 type pro game with 7-10 teams from Ireland and the rest worldwide.

    It's the future.
    And before any of the Diehards get in first. Suck it up, it's the way forward, there's too many top players scraping the barrel just to make ends meet, too many self employed hard working members who can't risk playing because of the implications of getting injured.

    Managers are getting paid anyway. A pro game would be more transparent.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 583 ✭✭✭68Murph68


    jive wrote: »
    Also I can't speak for every inter county player but I know quite a few who drink as much as any joe bloggs for most the year, they do tone it down come championship time, however!

    Are these successful intercounty players or just members of some of the lesser county teams?

    I would imagine very very few of the successful/best inter-county players drink all that much if at all. If you're a county player in a less successful county I could see the dedication involved being much less. If you're playing Divsion 3 or Division 4 and expect to be out of the Championship in the first round it's probably a lot harder to be as dedicated. However I'm sure that there are lads even at that level showing serious dedication.

    Know a few involved with the Kerry footballers over the last while, who would be teetotal or very close for the majority of the year - not cos they don't like a pint but because it's just not worth it. Besides watching diet/alcohol, they would also have stories of missing out on stuff like weddings/birthday parties as well as having issues booking holidays. Plenty of other lads more than willing to take your place in the squad if you don't perform.

    I've been out on social occasions and benefitted from situations where lads on the Kerry team (big names) were bought pints in pubs and they passed it on
    to myself :D - not they didnt appreciate the gesture but they would have already hit their 2 pint limit for the night.(Also people might see them in the pub for 2 or 3 hours with a pint at one stage, but often they would only be sipping away at it and would often switch to pints of Lucozade after one or two) I've also met inter-county players after the season would be over and you could see that they tolerance for drink would be way down compared to other lads of the same age because they wouldnt be used to drinking regularly.

    I've even heard of club teams going off the booze for periods as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    As a club player I stay off drink for up to two weeks before a championship game
    So I'd imagine county players are off it for months on end

    As a club player I would traing 2/3 times a week with the squad, do maybe 1/2 gym sessions on my own and then a few more hours in the ball alley improving my own striking and other skills
    sometimes you might even do extra cardio work such as cycling or swimming depending on the workload with the club


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    68Murph68 wrote: »
    Are these successful intercounty players or just members of some of the lesser county teams?

    Two of the better county teams, not top though. Two players I know had great success at underage level (diff. counties) and are touted as potentially top players, they're not underage anymore but still young. The others I know are regular enough players some don't start all the time though it depends. It's a different story come championship time though but like I said for a large part of the year they're as boozy as the next man! I'm not trying to be obscure to create an air of mystery or anything I just don't want to name names or give too much away that somebody would know who they are.

    I do know 2 other intercounty players from another county (top) (albeit only fringe players who make appearances during the league but not come championship) who I'm aware don't do much drinking year round and appear to have a more rigid + thoughout gym program than the others, tbh I think this may be due to that county's setup. I'm not doubting the amount of training any of the guys do, drinking or not they still train a phucking shít load; no doubt about it whatsoever.

    Edit: Note - all these players are involved with colleges, everyone drinks more at college :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    jive wrote: »
    Two of the better county teams, not top though. Two players I know had great success at underage level (diff. counties) and are touted as potentially top players, they're not underage anymore but still young. The others I know are regular enough players some don't start all the time though it depends. It's a different story come championship time though but like I said for a large part of the year they're as boozy as the next man! I'm not trying to be obscure to create an air of mystery or anything I just don't want to name names or give too much away that somebody would know who they are.

    I do know 2 other intercounty players from another county (top) (albeit only fringe players who make appearances during the league but not come championship) who I'm aware don't do much drinking year round and appear to have a more rigid + thoughout gym program than the others, tbh I think this may be due to that county's setup. I'm not doubting the amount of training any of the guys do, drinking or not they still train a phucking shít load; no doubt about it whatsoever.

    Edit: Note - all these players are involved with colleges, everyone drinks more at college :P

    Your talking about young fellas with 'potential'. Nobody can ask a guy to live like a monk but if they're going to have a few pints 'every' Wed or Thurs night and maybe one other night say, even every other week, they'd have to be an exception to the rule to make it at the top level!!!!!!!

    There's no harm in a glass of wine or cider once in a while but alcohol in general has a negative impact on the body and ones ability to play at the highest level.

    Anyway irrespective of drinking, these guys only have 'potential'. There's alot more to getting the most out of yourself besides giving up alcohol.
    Just on the club side of it. I know of one club in the ninties who had a strict no drink policy from senior down to minor. They didn't drink the night after winning a senior final, only their 2nd in thirty years because they were out the following Sunday in the provincial club x chip. Those guys have All Ireland club medals in their pockets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    mickmcl09 wrote: »
    Your talking about young fellas with 'potential'. Nobody can ask a guy to live like a monk but if they're going to have a few pints 'every' Wed or Thurs night and maybe one other night say, even every other week, they'd have to be an exception to the rule to make it at the top level!!!!!!!

    They're already playing regularly at the top level though irrespective of their potential, both of which are pretty much key players for their respective teams. I'd imagine they take it easier on college lads with regards to drink though, college boys enjoy their drink!

    There were also rumours going around of a certain kerry footballer becoming very fond of the drink, not going to say who but apparently it was an actual problem not just an affecting his game kind of problem. I don't know him though so not going to comment on it because it's just hearsay, let's just say if it is true it hasn't seem to have hindered him :pac:

    It's an interesting one and I'd imagine the most dedicated players shy away from drink for a large part of the year. It's certainly not the case for all of them though and they're amateurs so you can't really blame them for wanting to enjoy themselves as well. I'm sure most of them would rather a balanced life than robotic training regimes and diets, but there are exceptions to this and as far as I'm concerned they can do whatever they want; they don't owe us anything. You won't make it at inter county level if the fitness isn't there anymore though, not with the way both hurling and football have gone!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,176 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    There were also rumours going around of a certain kerry footballer becoming very fond of the drink, not going to say who but apparently it was an actual problem not just an affecting his game kind of problem. I don't know him though so not going to comment on it because it's just hearsay, let's just say if it is true it hasn't seem to have hindered him :pac:

    The Gooch?;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    ^ shhhh :P .

    Either way I think if you are gifted enough you can still drink and be a top player, within reason. Gascoigne got away with it in a professional field! Obviously it isn't advised but nobody expects amateur athletes to not drink. Every1 knows GAA lads are booooze hounds ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,176 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    True,


    I know a couple of intercounty players myself that are fond of the booze. Sure didn't the Dublin team go on a drinking spree for 3 months after the All ireland triumph. Some of the players frequented coppers quite a bit.


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    k mac wrote: »
    With all the talk recently of payment to managers and amateur players, i wondered is there any current or former inter county players on here that could give a insight into the demands of being involved in a county set up as in the amount of sacrifices they make, amount of training, off the booze, diet etc. In my own opinion they are amateur only in name with the amount of training they have to put in.Was talking recently to a player involved with his county team and he was telling me he trains 6 nights a week, 2 times with the team which involves him leaving his house at 630 and arriving home at 1130 totally wrecked and 4 other nights on his own in the gym .He says it has taking over his life but he wouldn t have it any other way.Now thats commitment and when ya think of what them ponces are payed in the premier league!
    Everything you said there is spot on.

    It is a serious commitment. I don't think a lot of people realise just how much work there is involved in it nowadays. This effort is generally put in by training panels of 40 players and a lot of them don't even get a competitive game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭hisholinessnb


    Intercounty is most likely another level but you may be surprised at the level of dedication shown by club players around the country also. There are many Junior and Intermediate clubs training early mornings, or 3 or 4 times a week and giving up booze etc for large parts of the year.
    I'd imagine a huge proportion of senior club players all around the country maintain really strict lifestyles to ensure they can exceed at the game they love.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    mickmcl09 wrote: »
    I'm going back to the early 90's here. For 4 months from Feb to May between Sigerson, Fitzgibbon, Club & County, sessions & games would total approx. 105 to 110 training sessions & games, over a 4 year period. For the other 8 months, 2 to 3.5 months are more or less on your own bat and the balance is the summer period depends really how far you go in various competitions. I'd say the summer period was 3-5 days a week.

    We didn't know as much about training, diet and a whole host of things that we (should) know about now. Back then and in alot it cases still the case, training sessions are bordering on crucifying fellas. Mgt. set ups dont know anything about the value of rest and recovery sessions, its brut force with alot of them. The GAA in general are still miles behind other sports from a fitness and diet point of view.

    My heart goes out to guys who get injured, especially between the ages of 16 & 21. For a number of reasons.
    - it's the time that they are developing into adult players and in most cases they never catch up properly afterwards.
    - it's a crucial time for their education and future careers and IMO injured players do not perform academically, they need sport to blow off steam to compliment their studies. Just because your injured and spending more time studying as a result, I've rarely seen results improve, quite the contrary actually.
    - more often than not injured players suffer a recurrence of the injury and unfortunately the injury sometimes becomes chronic leading to them leaving the game. It's caused playing catch up by the gap created by being laid off while other players are training and playing games.

    Theres lots of Diarmuid Duggans (cork) out there.

    GAA is not professional, it's not comparible to professional sports for one simple reason, we have to go out to work to make a living. GAA training regime is far tougher and harder on the body because it's being packed into one session every evening. Pro's can do up to 3 sessions a day, shorter, recovery is a big part of it and of course the emphasis on diet and wellbeing.

    IMO, I think a PRO game in both codes is not much more than 25 years away, maybe much less. I also think (hopefully when it does happen) that it will be an organisation completely separate from the GAA and GPA ( and again I hope it's a separate organisation).

    Is there a market for it now? That's the question. Diehards would like to have you believe that there isn't. A few 'dragons' out there would believe that there is, especially with the resurgence of the games in the States and with more and more ex pats in Canada, Austrailia and other parts of Europe and Asia. I'd love to see a Super 15 type pro game with 7-10 teams from Ireland and the rest worldwide.

    It's the future.
    And before any of the Diehards get in first. Suck it up, it's the way forward, there's too many top players scraping the barrel just to make ends meet, too many self employed hard working members who can't risk playing because of the implications of getting injured.

    Managers are getting paid anyway. A pro game would be more transparent.

    Good post up until your final few paragraphs when you went on about professionalism and dismissed anyone who disagreed with you as "diehards"!

    You believe that professionalism is inevitible and that franchises are the way to go- it will be very difficult to make 7-10 teams based on regions, as certain counties would not like to merge with other counties, and it would be a political nightmare to pick where these superclubs are based.

    You should look into the regionalisation of Welsh rugby back in 2003- they hit many roadblocks, clubs not wanting to be merged with other clubs, some clubs demanding to remain as stand alone clubs, most the proposals were rejected before a structure was finally agreed; 5 new regionalised super clubs. 2 of which were stand alone clubs, and 3 mergers.
    Within a year the Bridgend-Pontypridd club (Celtic Warriors) went belly up, riddled with politics as the two clubs couldn't agree on the naming of the new club, where they played the games, the colours of the jersey. The fans of both the feeder clubs never warmed to the new club and the whole thing just didn't work out. (Also, none of the 5 regional clubs encompassed North Wales, think of the vast swathes of the country your plan would isolate and abandon in hurling.)

    Presently, the club game in Wales is about to take a big hit, 9 years on, the Welsh public have not taken the new clubs into their hearts, attendances are poor, inferior to attendances in the Welsh Premier league before the regions were created, a salary cap is being introduced this summer because they are losing money hand over fist and the 4 welsh clubs are now finding it very difficult to hang on to their best players. The future of professional regional rugby in Wales is not rosey. And go up to Scotland, they have 4 traditional regions and are only able to afford to run clubs in two of those regions. Bare in mind that rugby is very popular in both these countries.


    So look at finances, a club would require a panel of 30 players (probably more) and those players would have to be paid (I'm giving a conservative estimate here) about 40,000 euro a year, there's a total wage bill of 1.2million euro, realistically it would be closer to 2 million when you factor in paying staff and that the better players will be paid a lot more than 40,000.
    So for 7-10 clubs you're looking to raise 14 to 20 million euro just to pay everyone, rather than accuse me of being a diehard, I want you to explain how on earth clubs are going to raise that kind of money in Ireland?

    The future is to protect the players, place restrictions on the amount of hours in a week the county is allowed to train their players as what is being demanded of them is too much. Another reason your professionalism idea is flawed is that you haven't taken the club game into consideration. The club game is the heart and soul of the gaa, 97% (probably more actually) of players are club players (why do so many people only care about fixing everything to suit the elite 2-3%), if you bring in professionalism, you kill the club game- look what rugby did to the club game in Ireland, the provinces got the pick of the players and the clubs lost their best players forever, and the quality of the club game suffered as a result as did the attendances. You don't see Paul O'Connell lining out for Young Munster every other week or Ronan O'Gara playing for Cork Con anymore.

    It's nowhere near as simple as you seem to think it is, there are far too many barriers and obstacles to professionalism for it to realistically work. Main one being that the money just isn't there, that's common sense, not diehardness as you (ignorantly) seem to think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    jordainius wrote: »
    Good .......
    think.

    Quality post ^


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 24,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Very nice post jordainius. I really don't want to see this thread descending into a discussion on professionalism btw.

    Some of my friends are intercounty hurlers, 1 of my best friends was on the Clare team of the 90s, they will all tell you that the training/time/effort they put into it just wouldn't be possible without the support of the people around them. When a young lad/girl is breaking into the inter-county team, maybe playing for college, their priorities would be college and GAA, it's a hard slog, getting up early in the morning to goto the gym/for a run, goto college, college training, club training, inter-county training. When you are young your body recovers quicker, you don't feel stiff and sore as often as when you get older.

    As players get older (say mid-20s) they may be settling down, getting a house/married/kids/relationship, all of a sudden the priorities change from being college & GAA to work, other half, saving & GAA. Your other half will have to be onboard with the fact that most weekends will be tied up with matches, most evenings they'll be on their own for hours on end, they won't be able to go on holidays from ~February till November.

    The Clare team that made the breakthrough in '95 were all bachelors, I don't know if many wives would have put up with their other halves being gone for the amount of time they were gone for, especially considering there was nothing to be shown from it except hidings in Munster finals.

    Saying all that, the GAA is starting to get smarter, coaches of different teams are now talking to each other, the importance of recovery time is being identified and also the importance of proper nutrition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭mickmcl09


    jordainius wrote: »
    Good post up until your final few paragraphs when you went on about professionalism and dismissed anyone who disagreed with you as "diehards"!

    You believe that professionalism is inevitible and that franchises are the way to go- it will be very difficult to make 7-10 teams based on regions, as certain counties would not like to merge with other counties, and it would be a political nightmare to pick where these superclubs are based.



    It's nowhere near as simple as you seem to think it is, there are far too many barriers and obstacles to professionalism for it to realistically work. Main one being that the money just isn't there, that's common sense, not diehardness as you (ignorantly) seem to think.

    I'm not going not the ignorant route at all, the fact that you call it that indicates how strong your opinion is, isn't that what a diehard is. A person who uses common sense doesn't need to put it that way, so relax.

    Perhaps a separate thread 'the possibility of a professional hurling and football franchise / organisation' would make for interesting debate and opinion.

    In the meantime, yes there's no doubting the commitment required nowadays for club level, never mind what county players put themselves through.


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,739 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Intercounty is most likely another level but you may be surprised at the level of dedication shown by club players around the country also. There are many Junior and Intermediate clubs training early mornings, or 3 or 4 times a week and giving up booze etc for large parts of the year.
    I'd imagine a huge proportion of senior club players all around the country maintain really strict lifestyles to ensure they can exceed at the game they love.
    Club training requires dedication, but the dedication for county football/hurling is far beyond any of that. Think about training 6 mornings/nights a week, with some sessions lasting 2-2.5 hours, and that is after a days work or college and travel. At the weekends you can be away from 9am until 6pm doing fitness tests and longer for match days.

    Don't get me wrong, club level requires a big commitment but county training is basically sleep, football/hurling, work, football/hurling, sleep... and repeat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    cournioni wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, club level requires a big commitment but county training is basically sleep, football/hurling, work, football/hurling, sleep... and repeat.

    There are loads of club players who do this but just aren't good enough to play intercounty football/hurling. So instead of training with a county team they'd be in the gym or out working on fitness.


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