Samsung aspect ratio on HDMI

I got a Samsung LE40C530 LCD TV about 18 months ago. Up until recently I was only using it with Saorview, UPC and FTA satellite via a Grundig Sky SD box. It works perfectly for all of these.

However, I recently had Sky installed and received the Amstrad DRX890 HD box. Now I see that the Samsung does not support widescreen signalling over HDMI so I have to set the aspect ratio manually on 4:3 material via HDMI which is a right pain. It doesn't matter what setting you choose as the HDMI output resolution on the Sky box (Automatic, 576, 720p, 1080i), none of them work. I know that Automatic works for my parents' Philips TV.

From what I can see, the "Auto Wide" function on the Samsung TV relies on line 23 WSS which obviously isn't transmitted on HDMI. So the option is greyed out on HDMI. It means that I've had to revert to using SCART for SD programming as I can't tolerate stretched pictures.

I don't expect there to be a fix but thought I'd post my grievance here in the hope that someone might know something.

watty

If the Sky box is set to 1080i only it ought to put on black bars on 4:3 content (when upscale is needed and content isn't WS) as there is no 4:3 mode for HD. At all.

watty

watty wrote: »

If the Sky box is set to 1080i only it ought to put on black bars on 4:3 content (when upscale is needed and content isn't WS) as there is no 4:3 mode for HD. At all.

It should, but it doesn't. You're dead right about that. I believe Virgin Media cable boxes and some Freesat boxes do. I probably won't get anywhere but might try seeing what Sky have to say about it.

watty

Our Sky HD box works (no sub on it) bought S/H, so it's quite old. Oddly it looks older than the White Pace SD only Sky box we have (no sub on that for a long time either)

So your Sky HD box applies aspect ratio correction rather than the TV? Do you have the box set to 1080i in the picture settings?

With my parents' Thomson box, if the HD Output Resolution in the picture settings is set to Automatic, their TV (Philips as I mentioned earlier) will change to 4:3 on 4:3 content as expected. On 720p or 1080i it will remain at 16:9 and can't be changed via the TV. Also, the box applies no correction so the picture is always stretched on 4:3 content.

For my TV, I only have the choice of 4:3, 16:9 or various zoom options. The Auto option is greyed out on HDMI. This is true regardless of what resolution the Sky box is set to.

I'm hoping I'm just doing something wrong.

watty

1080i is Widescreen only. So at 1080i a TV set will never change aspect ratio.

If SD is being upscaled to 1080i, the official spec and the way most receivers do it is pad the edge of lines with black if it's 4:3.
The SD lines can be 544, 704 or 720 pixels. These can represent 4:3 aspect or 16:9.
HD lines are always 16:9

Skybox should be set to WS and 1080i for HMDI. (I'd have to go look see exactly what the menu options are called).
Only use AUTO for SCART only connections.

There is NEVER WS/4:3 switching on ANYTHING for 720p, 1080i or 1080p. Only SD content will ever be 4:3 and if a set-top box settings are correct (and the firmware isn't wrong) then in 720p, 1080i or 1080p only modes of output it's suppose to re-frame 4:3 SD with black bars at side.

watty

watty wrote: »

1080i is Widescreen only. So at 1080i a TV set will never change aspect ratio.

If SD is being upscaled to 1080i, the official spec and the way most receivers do it is pad the edge of lines with black if it's 4:3.
The SD lines can be 544, 704 or 720 pixels. These can represent 4:3 aspect or 16:9.
HD lines are always 16:9

Skybox should be set to WS and 1080i for HMDI. (I'd have to go look see exactly what the menu options are called).
Only use AUTO for SCART only connections.

There is NEVER WS/4:3 switching on ANYTHING for 720p, 1080i or 1080p. Only SD content will ever be 4:3 and if a set-top box settings are correct (and the firmware isn't wrong) then in 720p, 1080i or 1080p only modes of output it's suppose to re-frame 4:3 SD with black bars at side.

The HD output resolution option has no effect on SCART at all. The SCART Control and Picture Format options are what do this, using either pin 8 or line 23 WSS.

If the output resolution on the Sky box is set to 720p or 1080i, then the STB does the upscaling but NEVER retains the aspect ratio on 4:3 content. As most TVs do not allow the aspect ratio of HD video to be changed (lets face it, there's no need if everything is done properly) then 4:3 content is always stretched on these modes. My TV does allow manual aspect ratio control on HD video but this is irrelevant to the issue.

Automatic feeds 1920x1080i video via HDMI only on HD channels. On SD channels it outputs 720x576 video and specifies the aspect ratio of the video stream (as mentioned here). This means that there's a slight delay in switching between SD and HD channels as the TV needs to switch modes. I can confirm this with the remote that it does indeed receive a 720x576 picture on SD channels in Automatic. From what I'm reading online, Samsung TVs do not obey the aspect ratio when sent via HDMI in this mode so the only way they can display 4:3 video correctly is if the box applies the aspect ratio correction, which the Sky HD boxes do not. This is why I have to revert to SCART for SD content.

watty

Tis annoying when folks don't make stuff properly.