Irish Air Corps Museum

shanman

A recent visit to the museum at Baldonnel reveals the volunteer work on preserving the Air Corp's heritage continues. A nice collection of artifacts and aircraft have been put together for the visitor to view including the beautifully restored Avro Cadet C7 long with Avro Anson 141 plus many more. What is badly needed is more space to display our military aviation history and some way of getting better public access though this would require investing money not available in the current climate. Meanwhile you can enjoy some photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/shanair/

Savage93

Surely some room could be found in Collins barracks for one of each of these, waste in Baldonnell with no real public access, or maybe even some of the open space indoors in the airport. great to see these aircraft restored but pity no real public access

Stovepipe

Having them in Collins or the airport would keep them away from the people who actually physically care for them (the techs and personnel of the Don) and would destroy the years of work put in by the excellent Curator, Mick Whelan. A lot of the collection spent years locked away in a shed in the airport and went neglected and unseen for years. The Don is it's natural home.

regards
Stovepipe (ex-er)

westdub

It's a shame that they cant have something along the lines of the FAA museum at Yeovilton where the museum is part of the airfield but easy for the public to access...

Stovepipe

Hi there,
The fact that the Museum hangar is so far within the camp itself is a problem, because it opens onto the active flightline. There was a lot of thought given to sorting out public access, as there is an obvious demand for it but the actual route from main gate to hangar door is a twisty one (no direct route, lots of turns) and right now, the only way in is by escorted tour. Apart from that, the toilet/disabled access facilities required by modern standards aren't there nor is the funding to provide it. So, access is in effect restricted by the geography of the location and not by any unwillingness to show it off.

regards
Stovepipe

westdub

That's why it should be like Yeovilton where the museum is beside the airfield and can be accessed without having to enter the main base , but still has all the benefits of being part of the airfield..
I know it's not going to happen but as someone said in a film a few years ago... ''Build it and they will come''....

Stovepipe

What I said. The Museum is too far within the bowels of the camp to allow direct access from the public road.It doesn't have a means right now of segregating the public from the operational areas of the airfield.All of the buildings that surround the Museum are active and it fronts onto the active ramp area, so it is not easy to have unrestricted access for the general public.

regards
Stovepipe

EchoIndia

Even if the present museum was open to the public, it would still be very much of "niche" interest and, given Baldonnel's location, I would say visitor numbers would be small. In my experience Irish people are not generally very interested in either military matters or aviation (except to take them on their holidays!). If the Collins Barracks complex could accommodate a larger and dedicated aviation element, that might be a better option.

Judgement Day

EchoIndia wrote: »

Even if the present museum was open to the public, it would still be very much of "niche" interest and, given Baldonnel's location, I would say visitor numbers would be small. In my experience Irish people are not generally very interested in either military matters or aviation (except to take them on their holidays!). If the Collins Barracks complex could accommodate a larger and dedicated aviation element, that might be a better option.

I didn't even know of the existence of this museum but it certainly good to see so many well cared for exhibits. It would be a big draw with British enthusiasts and the general public - if they knew about it or could access it. Even the poor old National Transport Museum at Howth Castle gets quite a lot of visitors. Definitely a case of 'build it and they will come' and it's projects like this that the clowns in Bord Failte/Failte Ireland should have been backing down the decades instead of rubbishy interpretative centres.

amdublin

Wow! Never knew it existed :eek:

More details please!!!!
Where in Baldonnel us it located? Can one just walk in? What are it's opening hours?
website anyone?!

Savage93

Stovepipe wrote: »

Having them in Collins or the airport would keep them away from the people who actually physically care for them (the techs and personnel of the Don) and would destroy the years of work put in by the excellent Curator, Mick Whelan. A lot of the collection spent years locked away in a shed in the airport and went neglected and unseen for years. The Don is it's natural home.

regards
Stovepipe (ex-er)

See what you're saying Stove but would you not agree that these historic aircraft deserve a home where can get maximum exposure and where as many people as possible can see them without having to jump through hoops by trying to arrange a visit to the Don, again all credit to Mick and the personnel who work on and look after them.

BowWow

amdublin wrote: »

Wow! Never knew it existed :eek:
More details please!!!!
Where in Baldonnel us it located? Can one just walk in? What are it's opening hours? website anyone?!

+1

westdub

amdublin wrote: »

Wow! Never knew it existed :eek:

More details please!!!!
Where in Baldonnel us it located? Can one just walk in? What are it's opening hours?
website anyone?!

All the info you need is here... http://www.aviationmuseum.eu/World/Europe/Ireland/Baldonnel/Air_Corps_Museum.htm

Just ring the The Station Commander's office and they will take it from there...

westdub

I wonder how many of the empty units in the Greenogue Industrial estate that's just outside the airfield could be adapted to house the collection?

And I bet if there was a shop attached to the museum selling Air Corps memorabilia it could make a few bob to help fund itself...
But this is Ireland where it seems that anything that caters for hobbies that dont involve sport is not worth doing...:mad:

Rant over....:)

Stovepipe

I couldn't agree more about increasing access and I know from experience that many, many people would visit if access was easy and it was more widely known. Giving greater public access has already been discussed at length in the Don and even up to Govt level but physically, right now, it's too difficult and too expensive. The Museum contains a lot of stuff that was located in Dublin airport for many years and was neglected and in a lot of cases, ruined by bad storage so at least now, the stuff is well-kept and in a safe home. With maximum respect to the National Museum, they have done a great job with the stuff in Collins' but they are concerned with the National picture and not the Air Corps as an entity. I like the idea of relocating some of it to Greenogue as that is easily accessed and is near to the Aerodrome.You should put it to the OC Air Corps.See where it goes.

regards
Stovepipe

Turbulent Bill

I think the best compromise would be to have rolling 3-6 month displays of one or two IAC aircraft in Collins' Barracks, with the Baldonnel museum staying as-is. That way the general public would have easy access to new aircraft every few months, the whole collection would be properly maintained and the real prop-heads could still go to Baldonnel if they want. Everyone's a winner.

The Smithsonian acts the same way, albeit on a much larger scale!

westdub

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I think the best compromise would be to have rolling 3-6 month displays of one or two IAC aircraft in Collins' Barracks, with the Baldonnel museum staying as-is. That way the general public would have easy access to new aircraft every few months, the whole collection would be properly maintained and the real prop-heads could still go to Baldonnel if they want. Everyone's a winner.

The Smithsonian acts the same way, albeit on a much larger scale!

But then you have the problem getting what are fairly large aircraft into and out of a museum that isn't designed for that kind of operation...
There is a lot of effort involved in dismantling and resembling the aircraft and I don't think the Air Corps would like the disruption of that happening ever few months...
Also if the collection was in easier to access location then it would receive a lot more interest from the general public and not be hidden away with just visits from as you put it ''Prop heads'' :rolleyes: and school tours.

I have been in a few aircraft museums in the UK and whenever I was in any of them there were many people going around pointing at aircraft and asking what they were and what they did, I would bet the same would happen here... Remember how may people attended the old air spectacular's at Baldonnel?

Turbulent Bill

westdub wrote: »

But then you have the problem getting what are fairly large aircraft into and out of a museum that isn't designed for that kind of operation...
There is a lot of effort involved in dismantling and resembling the aircraft and I don't think the Air Corps would like the disruption of that happening ever few months...
Also if the collection was in easier to access location then it would receive a lot more interest from the general public and not be hidden away with just visits from as you put it ''Prop heads'' :rolleyes: and school tours.

I have been in a few aircraft museums in the UK and whenever I was in any of them there were many people going around pointing at aircraft and asking what they were and what they did, I would bet the same would happen here... Remember how may people attended the old air spectacular's at Baldonnel?

These aren't B-52s - surely it's not that difficult to disassemble static exhibits? Collins' Barracks hasn't had problems dealing with large exhibits in the past (I've no idea what the IAC museum is like). Moving the entire collection to a lonely warehouse in Greenogue doesn't seem like a great way to encourage visitors, not to mention the rental cost, support expenses etc. required. The state already has an easily-accessible national museum, why not just leverage this?

For the record, I'd class myself as a prop-head and would love to spend a few hours in the Baldonnel museum, but I'm in a minority. Better to incorporate the planes in a general-purpose museum and whet people's appetite.

Ireland doesn't have the interest/commercial support at the moment to support a standalone airshow or museum.

Judgement Day

Pat Wallace and his crew have no interest in industrial/transport history and Collins Barracks would be an inappropriate setting in which to display aircraft. While there might not be sufficient interest/funds available for a stand-alone aviation museum there certainly should be for a general transport museum. Failte Ireland, Jimmy Deenihan etc. is the only port of call.

Stovepipe

Hi all
At least a site in Greenogue would answer the need for public access. Collins is not suited to aircraft. Also, the people who maintain them would be right next door. The lads who tip away in the Museum right now do it voluntarily and often give up their lunch breaks and after-hours time to give a hand.You move stuff into town and that's gone.
The old Air Shows in the Don were among the most heavily attended public events in the State. At least two shows had attendance figures of over 100,000.
A National Aviation Museum has been touted several times and even got as far as a drawing and a working paper back in the early Haughey days but infighting killed it stone dead. A National Transport Museum has also been touted but again, infighting killed it.
Honestly, write to OC Air Corps and offer to get your hands dirty in the Don Museum, so you can get a first-hand perspective.

regards
Stovepipe

westdub

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Moving the entire collection to a lonely warehouse in Greenogue doesn't seem like a great way to encourage visitors, not to mention the rental cost, support expenses etc. required.

Ireland doesn't have the interest/commercial support at the moment to support a standalone airshow or museum.

Why would locating the Museum off the N7 just a few mins from the M50 and in a location that is easy for people from all over the country to find such a bad thing? Also the Luas runs to Saggart just a few Kms away ..

As for the no interest you claim it's more like Ireland doesn't have a location to hold a Airshow after the B** Up of the last Spectacular at Baldonnel...
I also bring your attention to the amount of people who are parked at Dublin Airport every day of the week watching aircraft ...
I quiet happily say that if we had a properly run and located Museum the people would use it.

clown2brown

The best place for the museum is Gormanstown. Plenty of room down there to house all the aircraft presently in the current museum which at the moment is very tight for space. At present the AAIU are the only people availing of one of the many hangars down there.

westdub

There are three main problems moving it to Gormanstown, Firstly its too far from all the people who look after the collection, As Stovepipe has said already its mainly the guys of the Air Corps along with some volunteers that look after the collection in their spare time, so if it moves away from the area of Bal then they cant do that any longer...

Second .. Gormanstown is still a active Army camp and they hold live firing exercises there on a regular basis, so Im sure they would object to having the public wandering around the area...

And last but not least... How easy is it for the general public to get to if they cant drive? At least Greenogue has a regular bus service and the luas is not that far away either...

Davidth88

I love the photo's

The Anson is wonderful .

How many of these aircraft are airworthy , or capable of being airworthy ?