Heifer down..wrong AI Straw!!!

follower

Well Lads,

Just wondering has this ever happened to anybody else, I had a 2yr old fresian heifer into calve last nite, with 10 heifers calved already with an easy calving AI sire I thought she'd be fine. Two hours in, the legs were out but not making much progress....just to make a long story short, I had to jack out the calf after 5 attempts, got caught at the head, shoulders, got to the end of the jack and still not out and then got caught at the hips. Massive calf!!!

The AI man gave the heifer the wrong straw!! what was supposed to be an easy calving AI straw like the other heifers turned out to be a hugh BELGIUM BLUE bull calf. The heifer still hasnt got up. What should I do? Should I contact the AI company because now I'm down the cost of a well breed heifer?

Bizzum

Yeah, I've had this happen but got away with it. People make mistakes reading the straw, it's easily done.
Did you keep the used straw?
What AI bull were you using on the other heifers?
Could it have been a stock bull or strong weanling that got at her?

The heifer could be right as rain in a day or two, if you can get her up and motoring at all.

Figerty

You need to be very sure of your back breeding of the heifer.. should could have some funny genes going back that appeared now.

Had a limosin/angus cross throw out a friesan 'looking' calf last year .. No idea where that came out of.. she was on her 11th calf! Ai gave her a limo. I have kept two of of calves as breeders an never had an odd calf from them.....yet.

Mind the heifer and see if she gets up, hopefully she will recover. I presume you had the vet out to her with a shot of steroids, maybe calcium and anti-biotics.

follower

No i didnt keep the used AI straw but wish I did now. I used two easy calving fresian bulls PKK and BHZ on the heifers with no problems until now.

The stock bull is an aberdeen angus and we dont keep any bull calves past the age of 2weeks plus none of the neighbours have a belgium blue bull so it had to be the AI mans mistake.

Hopefully your right and the heifer gets up, at the moment she's very weak.

limo_100

ring up the plant and they will tell you what bull was on her. Give your heifer calcium it will help her.

Martin 83

Did you not think about getting a c section done on her?

Min

Get her out to a sheltered field if you can.

I had a heifer who went in calf way too young. She calved last year during the night, she had not shown any signs she was about to calf as I had felt her pin bones. Anyway the calf was stuck at the hips, the heifer did not get up after the I got the calf out.
It was 9 days later when she got up, but it took a while for her to recover but she is perfect now. She was out in a field.

Get a vet to check her out.

Sister Assumpta

Martin 83 wrote: »

Did you not think about getting a c section done on her?

In fairness I wouldn't blame the OP for relying on the jack when he couldn't have known he had a Belgian Blue in there.

OP put the cow in an environment where she has a strong grip when she tries to rise, and consider limiting her hindlegs' by tying them together at the hock. Tie them just enough so what she would be able to walk, but so as to avoid them from splaying altogether, should she fall.

Consider calling your Vet as well, though my brothers are Vets and I've never seen them do anything except give her time to get herself up, if she can.

follower

I had the vet with her straight after she calved he gave her calcium and an injection into the spine to stop her forcing incase she pushed out her inners. I've propped her up and switched her from side to side every couple of hours. She is however trying to get strength to stand up so I'm moving her out to the field tomorrow as suggested by OP. I'll give her another shot of calcium and see how she is in a few days time. If all else fails I'll heist her back legs and she might have the strength to stand. Thanks for the posts.

Bizzum

Don't forget to water and feed her, she will need all her strength. Be careful too if she starts getting up she can be very unstable and unsteady, I've seen one nearly kill her calf by falling on him. Also a risk to yourself.
Hopefully she will be up and about soon!

The AI docket/statement should tell you what bull was put on her? Do you know the culprit?

ravima

heard of a similar case recently.

You have lost the heifer. Have you retained the bull? Contact AI company. Work out cost of heifer with live proper calf. They work out cost of your current calf and deduct that from the earlier sum.

Heifer + correct calf = €x
Live calf = €y
Your loss = x-y + vet fee and heifer carcase disposal fee.

Ask AI station to pay the loss.

island of tighe

ravima wrote: »

heard of a similar case recently.

You have lost the heifer. Have you retained the bull? Contact AI company. Work out cost of heifer with live proper calf. They work out cost of your current calf and deduct that from the earlier sum.

Heifer + correct calf = €x
Live calf = €y
Your loss = x-y + vet fee and heifer carcase disposal fee.

Ask AI station to pay the loss.

id say there would be no chance of them paying up.you would have nearly need dna evidence before they would admit negligence on their part.

Figerty

Any animal that wants to get up is worth fighting for. She could come right for you yet. When they stop wanting to get up then you have a problem.

Had one a long time ago that got paralysis on one leg. It took us weeks of proping her, turning her, and feeding her nuts, watering etc. Eventually she got up on here own and was there for years afterwards. Get her lifted as soon as is safe. We used to put a piece of carpet under her an help her up and four of us would help her up.

A neighbour had the same trouble as you with a Blue. Got caught at the hips. They had to jack hard and eventully they heard a crack. Thought the bone was broken. It tooks months, but the cow came right. Vet reckoned it was a major ligament somewhere. She has calved since with out problem.

Keep working on her.

follower wrote: »

I had the vet with her straight after she calved he gave her calcium and an injection into the spine to stop her forcing incase she pushed out her inners. I've propped her up and switched her from side to side every couple of hours. She is however trying to get strength to stand up so I'm moving her out to the field tomorrow as suggested by OP. I'll give her another shot of calcium and see how she is in a few days time. If all else fails I'll heist her back legs and she might have the strength to stand. Thanks for the posts.

yellow50HX

yeah agree with the lads try to get her stands as soon as you can as she'll start to get sores and can also start to get depressed.

we had one like that a few years back she calved in the yard and her back legs when into the splits and hurt her back, was a young cow out of good breeding. my dad lifted her out to a small field and lifted her every day. he would use the tractor to take the weight then lower her onto her legs so that she would get the strength back gradually, took ages but patience is a virtue. If she is trying to get up then that's a good sign.

we used to use slings to lift any downed cows but got a bit of a brain wave last year, got one of those skippo bags and cut down two sides. use a sling to lift the front then slide the bag under the cow, drop her back down then lift the bag. its acts like a cradle and is more comfortable. the straps can then be used to tighten or loosen to balance the cow.

raindodger

just thinking of leonnie foster and what advice she would give.Best of luck with the heifer it is very demoralising and time consuming to have one down

follower

Well Lads,

She's still not standing up despite lifting her daily but there is progress being made. Once lifted she'll walk on her front legs and yesterday we got her to put weight on all four legs but her balance isnt right yet. "Time will tell".

Just looking for abit of advice, a rep for the ai company is calling out this week, yesterday a 2nd heifer calved with a belgium blue, luckily it was a heifer calf and smaller than the previous bull calf. Again we had to jack the calf out but the heifer and the calf are doing prefect but it really shocked me and straight away I checked my AI dates and both heifers were AI the same day, then I contacted the AI company to get an explanation.
After some time I the phone they accepted the error and were confident the two heifers would probably be the only two that would have got Belgium Blue straws by mistake. This week the rep is calling out and said "he'd do something for us". What should I look for:
The Heifer may or may not get up again and was prob worth €1500
The calf she should have had "a fresian bull" was prob worth €200
Plus the milk she could have produced @ 30cent was worth €1350
The second heifer was lucky but it could have happened to her aswell, never mind the labour invovled liftiing and nursing the 1st heifer.

What do ye think.

Figerty

I think someone who was expecting a belgian Blue just got delivery of a Friesan!

Some of the costs you listed could be offset by the value of the Belgian Blue calfs. However, you have a damaged animal that is going to cost you time and money to bring right and this is not your fault. If you dig your heels too deep, they will dig theirs in also. Some delicate negotiations ahead of you.

If you replace the heifer, then you won't be at loss for the mik.
If the heifer has to be brought to the factory, then you will get something for her. They can argue this, just be ready!

If you can keep working with the heifer, she will might come good. It sounds like a mix of parallisis and physical damage. If she can put weight on the back legs, she must have some control over them.
Had a couple over the years with one back leg in trouble but never had one with two leg. I used to catch the back leg and move it around, eventually she started to pull against me. Sort of Physio. This was a good sign.

Give her another week and see if she is coming around.

Bizzum

follower wrote: »

After some time I the phone they accepted the error and were confident the two heifers would probably be the only two that would have got Belgium Blue straws by mistake.

What I'm wondering is why are confident that the error was confined to "probably" just the two.
Surely the documentation is there to see exactly what sire was put on all ten heifers?
Any value in waiting till all have calved before making a move? or at least another one or two!

follower

What I forgot to mention in my earlier post was that the BB bull calf had died during calving which made it more difficult to get him out. All the documentation from the AI man shows that the sire was an easy calving fresian but the calves were clearly Belgian Blues and carry the traits of the blue colour. What I'm wondering is whether the AI company's insurance will cover some of the costs that I will/am incurring due to this error. The reason they were confident that only 2 were affected was because these 2 were the only 2 AI'd on that day and both had BB calves.

whelan1

have everything written down, work off the list, maybe get your vet to examine the heifer, as even if she does stand she will not milk to her potential... either the ai man gave them the wrong straw or the ai company put the wrong semen into the straw. Beef straws are a different colour to friesian. Also had the heifer been in calf to the proper bull you would not be lifting her daily etc, the fact you have a live blue calf from one of them will stand to you... good luck. dont let the ai rep take your ai book away, as you may not get it back

yellow50HX

well its good that she is responding to the lifting, yeah its a case of doing a kind phyisio with her, it'll take time and patience but keep it going. if she falls so what, lift her again. once she gets confidence again she can walk on her own but don't let her with the rest of the herd for a good bit. her cycle will bring her back into heat after about 8 weeks (give or take) so you don't want her being jumped on for a while yet. this is another consideration to take into when your onto the AI rep. if you can keep a log of how long your tending to her each day you also use this to your advantage. remember if you agree anything get it in writing/email as a verbal agree isn't worth the paper it written on.

BB calves are fantastic if they live but can also be a heartbreaker when things go wrong. They have a double muscle gene that kicks in when they are about a week old so if the cow goes over time (usually if its a bull calf) then they start to grow the double muscle in the womb and cant get out. bad for cow and calf.

High bike

Here’s one for ye.Had a cow in heat yesterday that was supposed to be in calf since July .Rang AI man last night and booked an easy calving Sim bull 4% cd with very high milk figures 5* Came home from work this evening to discover the AI man couldn’t remember what bull I booked so he gave the cow a 3 yo 2nd calver a lim bull at over 9% cd and no milk in his pedigree

tanko

If she was mine she'd be getting the road.
What lim bull is it, is her calf still on her?

High bike

tanko wrote: »

If she was mine she'd be getting the road.
What lim bull is it, is her calf still on her?

her calf is weaned about a month,I’m just hoping she misses, but some fcuk up by the ai man

White Clover

High bike wrote: »

her calf is weaned about a month,I’m just hoping she misses, but some fcuk up by the ai man

I'd be disappointed about the lack of milk but I wouldn't fear a 9% CD bull on a second calver.

High bike

White Clover wrote: »

I'd be disappointed about the lack of milk but I wouldn't fear a 9% CD bull on a second calver.

shes not over big and the ai company are saying he’s for mature cows only

Grueller

Shot of estrumate and weite off the three weeks would be my opinion.

tanko

High bike wrote: »

her calf is weaned about a month,I’m just hoping she misses, but some fcuk up by the ai man

The same thing happened here twice, once i let it go and it turned out ok, the other time i gave the heifer a shot of estrumate, rang the Ai company and they didnt charge for the call.

whelan2

I either text the ai man the bull I want or write it in the dairy book, which is beside the ai book all with the cow tag number

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

I either text the ai man the bull I want or write it in the dairy book, which is beside the ai book all with the cow tag number

Dose he/she nor have a handheld whelan ???,if you’ve sire advice ran with bulls picked and click send to handheld the ai man has choice of 3 bulls to puck from with in breeding check done .

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

Dose he/she nor have a handheld whelan ???,if you’ve sire advice ran with bulls picked and click send to handheld the ai man has choice of 3 bulls to puck from with in breeding check done .

Ye he has a handheld. The sire advice has 3 sires picked. I pick one of them. The point I was making though is I wouldn't put all the blame with the ai man. He has more than one call and if it's written down there shouldn't be any errors.

High bike

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye he has a handheld. The sire advice has 3 sires picked. I pick one of them. The point I was making though is I wouldn't put all the blame with the ai man. He has more than one call and if it's written down there shouldn't be any errors.

Don't see where ur coming from with that to be honest,if he had that many calls the onus was on him to write down which was which.Not alone did I give him the bulls code I gave him the name aswell,he didn't even get the breed right ffs.Anyway it doesn't matter I'll just wait 3 weeks and inject if necessary,as someone else said maybe it's better to text what we want in future

whelan2

High bike wrote: »

Don't see where ur coming from with that to be honest,if he had that many calls the onus was on him to write down which was which.Not alone did I give him the bulls code I gave him the name aswell,he didn't even get the breed right ffs.Anyway it doesn't matter I'll just wait 3 weeks and inject if necessary,as someone else said maybe it's better to text what we want in future

I asked my ai man today. He said text is best. But each to their own

KatyMac

My AI man prefers text. He can check info before going anywhere near the cow then. He responds with a 'thumbs up', if I get no response I give him a quick ring. As all my cows are young(ish) Angus I have to be careful not to have a daddy or granddaddy put on them.

squinn2912

Any word ever on what the outcome was of the first example of the B.B. calf?