Points awarded to my license by error

fastmover

Hello...

Has this happend to anyone here.....

I was in Court on 25 November last and the judged fined me and as it was a first offence she stated that there would be no points put on my license.

Anyway, over the Christmas period I got a letter from the RSA to say that the offence has been recorded on my licence and now I have 3 points on my license. Phoned the RSA and they said they could do nothing and to call the Court office.

With all the palava over Christmas and New Year forgot about it until now...

Phoned the Court service today and found that the Judge cannot rule that no points are to be put on licenses as it is mandatory upon conviction.

I now have to appeal this to the Circuit Court.

It seems the RSA hold more weight than the Judiciary

Marcusm

fastmover wrote: »

Hello...

Has this happend to anyone here.....

I was in Court on 25 November last and the judged fined me and as it was a first offence she stated that there would be no points put on my license.

Anyway, over the Christmas period I got a letter from the RSA to say that the offence has been recorded on my licence and now I have 3 points on my license. Phoned the RSA and they said they could do nothing and to call the Court office.

With all the palava over Christmas and New Year forgot about it until now...

Phoned the Court service today and found that the Judge cannot rule that no points are to be put on licenses as it is mandatory upon conviction.

I now have to appeal this to the Circuit Court.

It seems the RSA hold more weight than the Judiciary

The RSA doesn't hold more weight just that they judge may have made an error in recording a conviction without recalling the mandatory punishment - depending on what it was, he would have had to ask for you to be charged with something which did not carry penalty points and that did not happen. Is it really worth an appeal? What has your solicitor suggested? What was the offence?

fastmover

It is totally worth the appeal process....

It keeps my licence free from points if the appeal wins.....

Haven't spoke to a solicitor yet...the offence was that i mounted the kerb....

CiniO

fastmover wrote: »

It is totally worth the appeal process....

It keeps my licence free from points if the appeal wins.....

Haven't spoke to a solicitor yet...the offence was that i mounted the kerb....

I actually can't see "mounting a kerb" as a penalty points offence, but maybe I missed something.

piperh

fastmover wrote: »

It is totally worth the appeal process....

It keeps my licence free from points if the appeal wins.....

Haven't spoke to a solicitor yet...the offence was that i mounted the kerb....

Do you mean you parked on the kerb cus if so i'm reporting all the gits in my estate who block the path

Or you mounted the kerb whilst driving which perhaps was considered driving with undue care and attention?

fastmover

Driving on a footpath....1 point for fine 3 in court......

it's under the not looking the sky when you see a spaceship and above not doing the macarana on a Tues the 30th Febuary.....

And before anyone says it's my faulty I hold my hands up...I deserve it...i'm actually a member of the IAM

MugMugs

fastmover wrote: »

Driving on a footpath....1 point for fine 3 in court......

it's under the not looking the sky when you see a spaceship and above not doing the macarana on a Tues the 30th Febuary.....

And before anyone says it's my faulty I hold my hands up...I deserve it...i'm actually a member of the IAM

Well if anyone does say anything tell them where to stick it. That's not the issue at hand.

I'd appeal OP.

Marcusm

I think you need to speak with a solicitor as I'm not sure what's open for you to appeal.

It sounds that you've been summonsed for an offence, appeared in court and plead guilty. In most cases that exhausts your rights to appeal to a court of higher jurisdiction.

The judge may have misunderstood the tariff applicable but I'm not sure that alone is grounds for an appeal where a guilty plea has been entered. It might have been open to the judge to allow you to plead to a lesser offence or one not carrying penalty points but I don't think his lack of knowledge on the penalty is likely to relieve the obligation to endorse the penalty points which arises under s2 RTA 2002.

Guy:Incognito

piperh wrote: »

Do you mean you parked on the kerb cus if so i'm reporting all the gits in my estate who block the path

Parking on the path is an offence.

galwaytt

Marcusm wrote: »

I think you need to speak with a solicitor as I'm not sure what's open for you to appeal.

It sounds that you've been summonsed for an offence, appeared in court and plead guilty. In most cases that exhausts your rights to appeal to a court of higher jurisdiction.

The judge may have misunderstood the tariff applicable but I'm not sure that alone is grounds for an appeal where a guilty plea has been entered. It might have been open to the judge to allow you to plead to a lesser offence or one not carrying penalty points but I don't think his lack of knowledge on the penalty is likely to relieve the obligation to endorse the penalty points which arises under s2 RTA 2002.

I disagree - you're assuming the Judge erred by misunderstanding. Even if he did, the only sentence that can be imposed is the one he hands down - the Judge holds sway in Court - not the other way round.

If the judge said 'no points', then that should be on the record. If the RSA don't like it, it is up to THEM to appeal - they cannot usurp the power of the judiciary, just 'cos it suits them. If so, what to stop any arm of the State messing with the Judiciary, and doing it the other way around ? We have separation of powers for a reason.

No, OP, if the Judge made a finding and passed a sentence of X, then that's what you're entitled to have administered.


Fight it.

Guy:Incognito

galwaytt wrote: »

I disagree - you're assuming the Judge erred by misunderstanding. Even if he did, the only sentence that can be imposed is the one he hands down - the Judge holds sway in Court - not the other way round.

If the judge said 'no points', then that should be on the record. If the RSA don't like it, it is up to THEM to appeal - they cannot usurp the power of the judiciary, just 'cos it suits them. If so, what to stop any arm of the State messing with the Judiciary, and doing it the other way around ? We have separation of powers for a reason.

No, OP, if the Judge made a finding and passed a sentence of X, then that's what you're entitled to have administered.


Fight it.

The RSA dont have a representitve in the court that notes the outcome and reports back whats to be applied as far as I know, the court notify the relevant people. They havnt usurped anyones authority.

Whats the legal standing of a judge ignoring mandatory sentences anyway?

piperh

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Parking on the path is an offence.

Yup i know but never thought the gards'd be bothered about it as they drive into estate at least once a day and do b**ger all about it lol

Henry Ford III

I thought mandatory was madatory - i.e. automatic and fixed without possible variation.

A judge can't make an exception on a mandatory penalty I'd have thought.

keithclancy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I thought mandatory was madatory - i.e. automatic and fixed without possible variation.

A judge can't make an exception on a mandatory penalty I'd have thought.

That thats the case then thats the Judges fault, I'd expect the whole thing to be overturned.

Henry Ford III

keithclancy wrote: »

That thats the case then thats the Judges fault, I'd expect the whole thing to be overturned.

I wouldn't. I don't think there was any issue of the OP not having mounted the kerb.

If points for the offence are mandatory, then they will be meted out.

keithclancy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I wouldn't. I don't think there was any issue of the OP not having mounted the kerb.

If points for the offence are mandatory, then they will be meted out.

I'm not saying the event did not occur.
If the transcript says what the OP Described it'll be overturned.
I've seen cases overturned for far less. (E.G. Garda not turning up, notes not in Order, incorrect offence)

The system made a mistake, may as well use that mistake to your advantage.

If your all for the moral high ground than thats fine, but if i could get out of a fine + points so be it.

Marcusm

keithclancy wrote: »

I'm not saying the event did not occur.
If the transcript says what the OP Described it'll be overturned.
I've seen cases overturned for far less. (E.G. Garda not turning up, notes not in Order, incorrect offence)

The system made a mistake, may as well use that mistake to your advantage.

If your all for the moral high ground than thats fine, but if i could get out of a fine + points so be it.

THe problem is however that in the District Court there is no transcript and few notes. IN this case, the OP/accused does not seem to have disputed the charge but plead guilty. I fully accept his version of events but doubt that any note will have been taken of the "no penalty points" although given the law, that would not have been open to the judge anyway. DOubt that anyone else will remember it, even if they do remember it!

galwaytt

Marcusm wrote: »

keithclancy wrote: »

I'm not saying the event did not occur.
If the transcript says what the OP Described it'll be overturned.
I've seen cases overturned for far less. (E.G. Garda not turning up, notes not in Order, incorrect offence)

The system made a mistake, may as well use that mistake to your advantage.

If your all for the moral high ground than thats fine, but if i could get out of a fine + points so be it.

THe problem is however that in the District Court there is no transcript and few notes. IN this case, the OP/accused does not seem to have disputed the charge but plead guilty. I fully accept his version of events but doubt that any note will have been taken of the "no penalty points" although given the law, that would not have been open to the judge anyway. DOubt that anyone else will remember it, even if they do remember it!

I'd it not recorded these days ? I thought all the audio was recorded......no ?

milltown

keithclancy wrote: »

I'm not saying the event did not occur.
If the transcript says what the OP Described it'll be overturned.
I've seen cases overturned for far less. (E.G. Garda not turning up, notes not in Order, incorrect offence)

The system made a mistake, may as well use that mistake to your advantage.

If your all for the moral high ground than thats fine, but if i could get out of a fine + points so be it.

Is our legal system not based in large part on precedents?
If it went to appeal I can't imagine a mandatory points penalty being overturned as it would set a precedent that would apply not only to mounting the kerb, but to all mandatory points offences.

If the OP is clean enough for this to be his first offence, given that less than four points won't even affect his insurance, I'd be reluctant to go any further with this.

Marcusm

galwaytt wrote: »

I'd it not recorded these days ? I thought all the audio was recorded......no ?

Has that been rolled out to the District Courts? I thought that was aspirational but may very well be wrong. it would underpin the JUdge's embarrassment but I still don't think it deals with the fundamental problem here.