RTS is one genre im absolutely terrible at.

Dcully

As the title says, i do mean im pretty darn poor at RTS games.
Ive being meaning to make this post a long and kept putting it off
Let me state i very much enjoyed my time with SC2,COH,C&C etc but as always once i finished single player my multiplayer online experiences have always been short lived.
SC2 is a perfect example, i loved the game when it was released.
For months everytime i sat infront of the pc was to either play SC2 or study countless video guides and tips to try and improve my game,it was practice practice practice.
But sadly i just got fed up of losing and quit the game,in general i found the community to be very good and helpful but that age old issue with me and RTS games continues today, im just really bad at them.

Deal with it! i hear you say, i have by quitting lol, seriously though when you get to the stage where you lose 95% of your games its tough to continue.

I dabble with a lot of gaming genres,ive experienced lots of end game raiding in MMOS ,ive competed in many FPS leagues over the years,ive took part in many online simracing leagues etc, to sum up i can play those genres pretty well and quite successfully on an average scale, nothing too serious just a bit of fun.
The RTS genre still eludes me, after years on and off i still suck.
Ive put it down to being just one of those things, like the school kid that nomatter how hard he tries he simply hasnt the talent to play football as good as his mates, thats me and RTS right there.
To be fair i dont really care how good i get at a game in terms of being competitive,competitive gaming has long since left me,it doesnt interest me anymore.
I simply want to get to a level where i can have an enjoyable time with a game.
In an MMO for example i can happily raid with my casual guild mates,in iracing i can also take part casually,the same can be said for FPS games but im so bad at the ould RTS games i cant even get a decent game going on the lowest ladders.

SC2 makes a great effort of offering a level playing field with rankings etc but seriously i was that bad at it i was stuck close to the bottom league for 3-4 months.
A few months back i tried Civ 5 and love it, it felt so much more relaxed with its turn based gameplay, i thought id never miss RTS games again but recently ive thought of going back to SC2 in particular as the game is simply brilliant imo but im constantly reminded of why i quit in the first place.

At this stage i know i will never improve in this genre, i just thought id post this to see if anyone else is in a similar position or am i a rare breed :P
If you have read all of this fair play Sorry about rambling on.

Sabre Man

I would be happy to watch your CoH replays and give you feedback if you want to give it another try. I'm not a top player by any means but I win about two games for every game I lose in 1v1 and I don't even play that often.

rollie

I have had a similar experience with SC2. I know it's a fantastic game. I love all the support for the leagues and I have spent many hours watching lots of commentries of games and perfecting my strategies but I still suck hard at it. I have a problem with the whole building a base, making units and attacking the enemy part of it. Which admittidly is quite a large part of the modern strategy game, ya'know the macro.

However, one game I used to be pretty ok at was World in Conflict (I've just bought my third copy of the game and am trying to get it installed but having linux problems, but I'll get there). Now what this game offers, instead of a macro-style max-out and push-out theory of life, is that you don't have to build any buildings. Those kind folks in the airforce deliver everything you need to your desired location. And your resources (reinforcement points) are capped at 6,000 which is only the equilivant to 5 heavy tanks or choppers. In addition there are roles like support which is all about predicting where the enemy heavy choppers are going to appear next and making sure that your SAM AA is there to greet them. To be effective in this game you need to have situational awareness of both your friends and foes, have communication skills and have micro skills. It helps if you work out strategies with your team-mates, but for a couple of fun games on massgate, that is all you need.

Just a suggestion, but maybe this is the kind of strategy game for you? Less build a barracks, build a marine and push out to secure your natural expansion...more call in a heavy arty barrage to soften up a superior enemy and coordinate with your team mates to take them out and secure strategic points on the map.

Dcully

rollie wrote: »

I have had a similar experience with SC2. I know it's a fantastic game. I love all the support for the leagues and I have spent many hours watching lots of commentries of games and perfecting my strategies but I still suck hard at it. I have a problem with the whole building a base, making units and attacking the enemy part of it. Which admittidly is quite a large part of the modern strategy game, ya'know the macro.

However, one game I used to be pretty ok at was World in Conflict (I've just bought my third copy of the game and am trying to get it installed but having linux problems, but I'll get there). Now what this game offers, instead of a macro-style max-out and push-out theory of life, is that you don't have to build any buildings. Those kind folks in the airforce deliver everything you need to your desired location. And your resources (reinforcement points) are capped at 6,000 which is only the equilivant to 5 heavy tanks or choppers. In addition there are roles like support which is all about predicting where the enemy heavy choppers are going to appear next and making sure that your SAM AA is there to greet them. To be effective in this game you need to have situational awareness of both your friends and foes, have communication skills and have micro skills. It helps if you work out strategies with your team-mates, but for a couple of fun games on massgate, that is all you need.

Just a suggestion, but maybe this is the kind of strategy game for you? Less build a barracks, build a marine and push out to secure your natural expansion...more call in a heavy arty barrage to soften up a superior enemy and coordinate with your team mates to take them out and secure strategic points on the map.

Yep ive played WIC, great game.
I dont know why but SC2 has a certain appeal to me,its a game id love to be semi decent at.

Sephiroth_dude

I'm terrible when it comes too multiplayer in rts games too,the only difference is I'm terrible at all genres when there is multiplayer involved :-P

nesf

Practice. No secret really, just practice the right things. At the low levels it's not about the fancy stuff but the basics. Do the basics well and you'll beat people, simple as that and this basically translates into getting better at macro. E.g. play a lot of games where your only goal is to keep your money low. Just doing this and getting decent at it will get you higher up the rankings. It's like PvP in MMOs, you just have to put the hours in and develop the right habits. It's possible to just suck at them though and have a low ceiling (me with FPS games). You will always have a ceiling in these games that's very hard to get past, it's just a question of where is it. It's possible to pass it but it'll be very hard work and stops being fun very quickly.

E.g. I'm naturally a turtle, this is not a good idea in RTS games. So with each game I have to retrain myself out of this mindset and be more aggressive. I had similar issues with poker and being far too passive initially.

Sasquatch76

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

I'm terrible when it comes too multiplayer in rts games too,the only difference is I'm terrible at all genres when there is multiplayer involved :-P

Same here. Personally, I think I'm at that awkward, and rather specific point on the human intelligence scale;

All video game AI < me < everyone else in the world

Sucks to suck in multiplayer like I do. I used to be part of a TW clan and would avoid online play like the plague. In fact, I'm thinking of starting my own clan for players who are, at best, average in multiplayer :pac:

Gbear

nesf wrote: »

E.g. I'm naturally a turtle, this is not a good idea in RTS games. So with each game I have to retrain myself out of this mindset and be more aggressive. I had similar issues with poker and being far too passive initially.

Me too. I think anyone like this (perhaps the OP feels this way) simply lacks the mindset to get above a certain level.
I also possibly have the same problem with poker, but luckily I don't play that seriously and most of my friends aren't very good either.:P

I've been playing RTS' (including the original SC) for about 15 years so i'm naturally pretty good at them. I have a good baseline skill level. I think this is kind of important.
It's eye opening for people who are used to gaming in general or a specific type to see someone not familiar with the setup struggle with the basics that come naturally to you.

Another angle on this is that people who play games or specific kinds of games from a young age possibly develop an intuitive understanding of how to play games that can't be learned at an older age.
Recently I was showing my sister Portal 2 and she really struggled with the basic movement of the character. She'd never played an FPS before and lacked that intuitive understanding how to move without falling off cliffs.

While there are aspects of my game in SC2 that are better than those around me (maybe elements of macro, unit placement), they tend to do things like dropping in the back of my base or harassing with mutalisks.
It's not so much that I can't keep up with macro while i'm harassing (i can't really but the ability can be gained) - it's that I don't want to be in that position in the first place. The concept of harassing someone is alien to me.
I feel like this with all RTS games i've played.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

just play protoss
tech to 3 base, 3/3 w/ zealot archon storm
auto win your way to masters

this isnt going to be terribly helpful for anyone who was talking about sc2 as you probably have already been told it a hundred times, but unless you're in masters (maybe even high masters as quite a few masters players are just pretty terrible) you dont have to worry about micro or build orders. I'm high-ish diamond and I'm still trying to work the kinks out of my macro and I won't get out of diamond until I do, too many players are just able to easily outproduce me which leads to tables being flipped and obscenities being yelled. This is before I even worry about micro or build orders really. I just 1 rax f/e every game, once I get into masters I'll start doing fancy **** like banshee harass or reaper expand but until i get the basics down.. 1 rax f/e or bust
as day9 said, probes and pylons. probes and pylons
except **** protoss
just do what nesf said, practice keeping your money low. pick 1 build per matchup and do that, and only that. over time you'll get a feel for when to throw down another rax/gateway/hatch as you'll see over a few games "oh, around x minutes I'm usually floating a few hundred minerals.. next few games I should try throwing down some buildings here".

oh, and the most important piece of advice. learn to love losing, cos it's going to happen all the ****ing time this is something I haven't managed yet, I haven't played a game since sunday where I went on a 1 win 10 loss streak.. so... much... rage.

Nabber

It's mostly about using the right unit for the job.

Send the wrong unit(s) in against an enemy force and losing is very costly, you will lose the time, resources, terrian (any advantage that come with that).

You see it all to often that units are pumped out and sent in, sometimes even to just slow an in coming army. This in itself is a bad idea, I find anyways.
but then again it all depends on the game.

Make sure you use your short-cut keys, never use the arrow keys to scroll.

Sephiroth_dude

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

In fact, I'm thinking of starting my own clan for players who are, at best, average in multiplayer :pac:

oh sounds interesting

Sabre Man

Easy Company (www.ec-coh.com) caters for casual and average Company of Heroes players.

Sasquatch76

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

oh sounds interesting

Sorry man, only seeing this now...

Would there be much interest for this? Namely a general gaming clan more interested in having a bit of craic rather than being an uber elite kill squad? :pac:

Sephiroth_dude

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

Sorry man, only seeing this now...

Would there be much interest for this? Namely a general gaming clan more interested in having a bit of craic rather than being an uber elite kill squad? :pac:

I'd be interested,what games?did you get anno 2070 yet?