My brother is addicted to marijuana, advice?

LegacyUser

My brother is 28 and has been smoking (mj) since his early teens. He has terrible anxiety and refuses to leave the house, hasn't had a job in a long time and smokes every day. Whether the smoking caused the social anxiety or the other way around, both of them are intertwined and now his whole life revolves around the mj. He is a very nice guy, very intelligent, big heart, so is utterly crushed by his shame, frustration, embarrassment, depression and absolutely soul destroying social anxiety.

We have tried psychiatrists who have sometimes given bad advice and bad drugs, he completely distrusts them. We have tried psychologists who have had differing views but they have mostly been little help in this situation.

He is very depressed and suicidal and has to be constantly encouraged by increasingly elaborate plans to combat it, such as moving to a new house, or a new area, starting fresh, etc. He is suffering dreadfully but is not "crazy" therefore sending him to a mental institute would be a literal death sentence.

We, as a family, cannot force him to do anything, we can't say "do this or else" or give ultimatums because the consequences of which are not worth thinking about. We buy the marijuana for him, he shames him terribly, but if he doesn't have it, he literally goes beszerk, cannot sleep, manic, very suicidal, which is so distressing because he is such a kind-hearted wonderful guy, but the addiction has taken over, its also taken over his intelligence, which he uses, to justify the marijuana use, the problem is that some "experts" agree that certain strains can actually decrease anxiety. He cannot leave the house for anything, he has become a prisoner of his own mind, he cannot even sleep peacefully, is in constant pain and his only relief is the mj. He absolutely refuses any meds whatsoever based on bad previous experiences.

Is there anyone who has had a similar situation themselves or had a family member in such a condition, or perhaps can offer advice, thanks.

blatantrereg

Dont buy grass for him. You're not helping him in any way by doing that, no matter how magnanimous your motivation might be.

You are absolutely correct that you can't force him to do anything. You can stop enabling him to be a pothead though.

I agree sending him to a mental institution would be a terrible idea. It's not something you should even consider and certainly not talk about.

Even if a heavy cannibis smoker has no significant psychological effects from smoking they might notice very bad effects on their moods when they stop. Someone who is using it to hide from life in general is going to have a really hard time quitting. It's not physically addictive of course so you'll have loads of people insisting that it's not habit-forming at all. It clearly can be though. Some people develop pretty severe psychological dependence on it and might find it much harder to quit than cigarettes, for example.

If he does quit then he might get a lot worse before he gets better.

His intelligence might help him rationalise his way out of where he finds himself, psychologically. I thought there was significant pathos in the expression you used to describe his situation - that he is a prisoner in his own mind. The rational response to such a situation is to discontinue use of psychoactive substances that encourage introspection. Similarly the rational response to social anxiety is to discontinue use of psychoactive sybstances which sensitize you and can cause paranoia. The only rationale for continuing really is the sedative effect, but that just facilitates things getting worse really, by the sounds of things.

Anyway it's all down to him. The rational response to feelng shame is to take responsibility. You need to quit helping him hurt himself. Even though he might get a lot worse before he gets better, like I said, and he might turn into an awful arsehole if he does quit. I've a family member who was a total pothead for about 10 years - as in stoned all the time. Now his life is more on track and all - but he's a shockingly horrible person.

LegacyUser

i have social anxiety and having been treating it for a number of years. i've made a lot of progress with it and in my journey to overcome it, i learned an awful lot about the condition itself having read a lot of medical research, etc on it. i will agree somewhat with your brother in saying that you'd be surprised at how wrong some of the 'supposed' experts get it when treating it. meds are not the answer....they might as well do the same job as the marjuana did....mask the problem.

i'm no psyhiatrist but it sounds from your account that your brother is experiencing the same effects some people with social anxiety experience when they come off certain medications for reducing their anxiety. in essence, it sounds like he is experiencing withdrawal symptoms when he tries to quit using it.....it causes rebound anxiety.

doctors would probably recommend that he uses a gradual marjuana reduction programme along side using cognitive behavioural therapy which is the number one treatment for people with anxiety disorders.

as your brother's case is quite extreme, he would probably need to do a cbt programme himself (if he feels he can't talk to a therapist). i won't lie to you, it's a tough road back to full health which requires determination. he's got to want to get better....no one can force him too.

Ashley511 wrote: »

My brother is 28 and has been smoking (mj) since his early teens. He has terrible anxiety and refuses to leave the house, hasn't had a job in a long time and smokes every day. Whether the smoking caused the social anxiety or the other way around, both of them are intertwined and now his whole life revolves around the mj. He is a very nice guy, very intelligent, big heart, so is utterly crushed by his shame, frustration, embarrassment, depression and absolutely soul destroying social anxiety.

We have tried psychiatrists who have sometimes given bad advice and bad drugs, he completely distrusts them. We have tried psychologists who have had differing views but they have mostly been little help in this situation.

He is very depressed and suicidal and has to be constantly encouraged by increasingly elaborate plans to combat it, such as moving to a new house, or a new area, starting fresh, etc. He is suffering dreadfully but is not "crazy" therefore sending him to a mental institute would be a literal death sentence.

We, as a family, cannot force him to do anything, we can't say "do this or else" or give ultimatums because the consequences of which are not worth thinking about. We buy the marijuana for him, he shames him terribly, but if he doesn't have it, he literally goes beszerk, cannot sleep, manic, very suicidal, which is so distressing because he is such a kind-hearted wonderful guy, but the addiction has taken over, its also taken over his intelligence, which he uses, to justify the marijuana use, the problem is that some "experts" agree that certain strains can actually decrease anxiety. He cannot leave the house for anything, he has become a prisoner of his own mind, he cannot even sleep peacefully, is in constant pain and his only relief is the mj. He absolutely refuses any meds whatsoever based on bad previous experiences.

Is there anyone who has had a similar situation themselves or had a family member in such a condition, or perhaps can offer advice, thanks.

username123

My god, stop buying the weed for him! Its the family who are keeping him the way he is by buying the weed. Stop enabling his drug addiction. The family needs to take responsibility for their role in whats going on.

An aside on 'mental institutions' - I dont know if the right thing would be for him to be send to a psychiatric facility as Im not a medical professional. But I would advise people to update their perception of mental health issues and the places that treat them. You do not go to a mental institution because you are crazy. You have a mental health issue that may or may not require a period of inpatient care in a psychiatric facility or hospital as part of your treatment. Its damaging and stigmatising to refer to such a place as a mental institution which raises ideas like One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, many disorders of the emotions and mind are dealt with, it is not for 'crazy' people. Plenty of people go to such a place for a short stay until their particular problem is under control and they can face the world again. Sorry if Im going off topic, but I feel its important that mental health issues and their treatment are not stigmatised by society. If such stigma did not exist people would not be left suffering these problems for years and years.

Back on topic - rather than consulting psychriatists and psychologists have you tried addiction specialists? Have you spoken to somewhere like the Rutland Centre that deals with patients suffering from addictions?

As you have said, who knows if the smoking caused the anxiety or the other way around, but until the addiction is beaten there is no way of knowing I suppose.

I am sorry for your situation, an addiction in the family is an awful thing to cope with, but there are many supports and facilities out there that cope with addictions so thats a place to start looking for advice. I had occasion to phone and call into the Rutland Centre in the past (different addiction problem in the family), and I found them to be blunt, honest, genuinely concerned and helpful.

curlzy

Hey OP,

I've been smoking daily for over a decade. I work full time, own a small business, earned a degree in the evenings and I'm top of the game in my sport. I'm not saying that MJ is good for you or anything like that but I'm saying that MJ probably isn't the cause of his problems. I'm sure it's not helping either though, it is a depressant after all. So yeah I'd say the MJ has little to do with his situation. Sounds more like a mental illness issue to me, I would go down the doctor road more than the addiction road as I'd say you'd get better results to be honest. I really wouldn't stop buying him the MJ either as it sounds like he BELIEVES it helps, cutting him off could have horrific consequences if he BELIVES that it makes his life bearable. He could well panic and do something horrific if you cut him off, I wouldn't take that chance to be honest.

At the end of the day OP a doctor is the best person to advise you on this, not a group of lay people with anecdotal evidence, they could give you horrifically wrong advice and make things a hell of a lot worse.

Best of luck to you and your family.

Call Me Jimmy

Where is he living? Who is living with him (if anyone). Has he been diagnosed with bipolar or had manic episodes without marijuana?

What suicide attempts has he made? Has he ever been a danger to himself or anyone else outside of a suicide attempt?

The situation sounds so similar to my old one, but i'd need to know a bit more to reply properly.

EDIT:
Although two things I can say for sure.
Stop buying weed for him.
Mental hospitals treat almost everything that you could think of going to a psychologist for and are especially good at helping someone through a withdrawal. In fact there was a dedicated ward for drugs and alcohol when I was in there. They treat anorexia, depression, social anxiety. Pretty much every psychological problem you can think of. The point is that it's in a safe place with supervision and it is nothing like what you've imagined if you have never been to one.

blatantrereg

I've visited people in a psychitric ward and in a mental institution.
The former was part of a normal hospital and was just like any other hospital as far as visiting was concerned.
The latter was for people who had been committed. It was nothing like a normal hospital. It was very uncomfortable and unpleasant tbh.
I think we've been failing to differentiate between the two on this thread.

Call Me Jimmy

Well it depends on the ward ultimately. And yes, people who have been committed tend to be more erratic but as I understand it, most of those whose mental illness is apparent just from observing them for a minute will be scary but that is not my experience as both times I have been in wards (and hospitals) that separate people based on their danger to other people.

In general, if you are not a danger to other people you will be surrounded by other non-dangerous people. But then again I haven't experienced a publicly funded mental health facility which due to lack of resources would tend to mix all types of people in the same ward(s).

kraggy

OP, I was going to suggest that since you or your family buys him the weed, that you maybe try rationing it so that he is gradually weaned off it but after reading your post again, your brother seems to be an extreme case. I've not heard of that extremity before. He really needs to see a doctor.

If nothing else, a GP could prescribe him a high dosage of Xanas or Valium that would take the edge of the initial few days of having no marijuana.

However, don't be surprised if the doctor refers him to the local hospital for psychiatric help. He sounds like he needs it.

I cannot understate how important it is to relise that in many cases nowadays, the psych ward in a hospital is just like the Paedriatic Ward, or the Cancer Ward, or the Geriatric Ward. That is, it's just a ward which deals with a specific area of medicine. To refer to it as a "Mental Institution" is stigmatising the area of mental health which is the last thing the country needs.

There are other places that deal with addiction cases specifially so you could look into those. St John of Gods in Dublin is one. It's a psychiatric hospital but not a Mental Institution that ones thinks of like in the old days. Most of the patients are young and are there for reasons similar to what your brother needs or for other problems such as anorexia.

He needs professional help. And he needs it soon.

sparkle_23

Sounds like I'm reading about my own brother. He's a bit younger at 21 but when he was 14 he started smoking weed & since then has changed completely. He's paranoid and scared and stays up all night. We've left no stone unturned and tried everything. Unless he wants to help himself there's nothing we can do. It's tough and so so horrible... One min he's my bro that I know and love, the next he's a horrible horrible person... I know I didnt really offer advice but your post really got to me!

DamagedTrax

as a smoker and a true believer in legalising it, i would be the first to say get your brother off it. while it probably isnt the root of his problem it is definitly not something that suits every personality, as you can see in your brothers case.

but as already mentioned it needs to be cut down sensibly, immediate cut off will result in worse panic attacks as he becomes aware that whatever problems he was trying to hide from havent gone away.

also try not to use the word addict when talking to him. it is not an addiction but a habit that is easily broken over a couple of months and the words 'drug addict' automatically paints a dark picture, this is defintily not a place you want him to be as it will only make him want to smoke more.

there are ways of cutting down, rationing amounts per spliff but im not sure if we'd be allowed discuss it openly on here?

IrishEyes19

curlzy wrote: »

Hey OP,

I've been smoking daily for over a decade. I work full time, own a small business, earned a degree in the evenings and I'm top of the game in my sport. I'm not saying that MJ is good for you or anything like that but I'm saying that MJ probably isn't the cause of his problems. I'm sure it's not helping either though, it is a depressant after all. So yeah I'd say the MJ has little to do with his situation. Sounds more like a mental illness issue to me, I would go down the doctor road more than the addiction road as I'd say you'd get better results to be honest. I really wouldn't stop buying him the MJ either as it sounds like he BELIEVES it helps, cutting him off could have horrific consequences if he BELIVES that it makes his life bearable. He could well panic and do something horrific if you cut him off, I wouldn't take that chance to be honest.

At the end of the day OP a doctor is the best person to advise you on this, not a group of lay people with anecdotal evidence, they could give you horrifically wrong advice and make things a hell of a lot worse.

Best of luck to you and your family.

MJ like other drugs of that nature can trigure terrible side effects and damage in someone who might have a history of mental illness or is prone to anxiety and panic attacks. Keeping him on MJ will only worsen this, the most common side effect of Mj use if you get unpleasant side effects is actually anxiety and panic attacks. How the Mj affects you really depends on how you feel or how your mental state is beforehand. but the panic attacks usually make the person feel like they are dying and going insane.

the fact that your brother is suicidal and miserable isnt an account of just having anxiety issues alone, Mj triggers this and makes it worse. Its a topic for another thread anyway, but when you see this, I cant for the life of me understand why people thing legalising this stuff should be allowed.


OP, rehab should be the first port of call here. Within there there will counselling for him, along with trying to get him off the weed. People here must be kidding saying its not the drug, its just his anxiety. I really wish you the best of luck, but certainly rehab is the way to go here. The fact that he is venting fustration at his life is a sign, it can be turned around.

DamagedTrax

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

MJ like other drugs of that nature can trigure terrible side effects and damage in someone who might have a history of mental illness or is prone to anxiety and panic attacks. Keeping him on MJ will only worsen this, the most common side effect of Mj use if you get unpleasant side effects is actually anxiety and panic attacks. How the Mj affects you really depends on how you feel or how your mental state is beforehand. but the panic attacks usually make the person feel like they are dying and going insane.

the fact that your brother is suicidal and miserable isnt an account of just having anxiety issues alone, Mj triggers this and makes it worse. Its a topic for another thread anyway, but when you see this, I cant for the life of me understand why people thing legalising this stuff should be allowed.


OP, rehab should be the first port of call here. Within there there will counselling for him, along with trying to get him off the weed. People here must be kidding saying its not the drug, its just his anxiety. I really wish you the best of luck, but certainly rehab is the way to go here. The fact that he is venting fustration at his life is a sign, it can be turned around.

no offence but you clearly have no real workin knowledge of the drug or its addictive properties or that legalising and controlling it will actually help stop cases like this from happening. dont be giving advice on something you dont understand in such a sensitive situation. rehab would be stigmatising for a smoker with anxiety issues, to even suggest it is madness. he needs to stop smoking in a controlled way and then deal with underlying issues.

Android 666

I agree with Damaged Trax. All conjecture here so I'm not trying to give you a diagnosis but it sounds like maybe your brother is suffering from social anxiety issues and maybe depression and is using cannabis as a coping mechanism. The problems that's leading to is an increase in his anxiety levels when he has none. First off, is he covered by any health insurance with the family? If so, it might be helpful to go to your GP, explain all his problems and try and get a referral to a psychiatric hospital like St, Pats where he can get the time he needs to work on his problems by himself. Please understand that these places aren't bad places. A person suffering from anxiety issues who is not a danger to themselves will be in an open ward. Also, don't enable his behaviour. There has to be a point where enough is enough and you are going to have to pull together as a family and try and get him the help he needs. Good luck whatever happens.

IrishEyes19

DamagedTrax wrote: »

no offence but you clearly have no real workin knowledge of the drug or its addictive properties or that legalising and controlling it will actually help stop cases like this from happening. dont be giving advice on something you dont understand in such a sensitive situation. rehab would be stigmatising for a smoker with anxiety issues, to even suggest it is madness. he needs to stop smoking in a controlled way and then deal with underlying issues.

not going to get into a fight with you, be totally disrepectful to the OP, but don't dare insinuate I don't have any knowledge of it. You know nothing about me. How dare you.

As for what I said, I said look into rehab, OP, look into it, look in support groups, counselling ect. Then make decisions.

DamagedTrax

but don't dare insinuate I don't have any knowledge of it. You know nothing about me. How dare you.

fine, tell us your credentials. keeping in mind having witnessed a family member or friend or even having gone thru it yourself does not count for anything beyond a single life experience.

im not getting into any fight but you're talking in an old and antiquated way. we have long moved on from that way of thinking as it is PROVEN to have adverse effects on people with anxiety issues. this says to me that you dont work in the area or havent in a vey long time as anyone that does would have been trained to think quite the opposite to you... except for some very right wing, church aligned institutions which really command no respect from anybody.

i have worked in a support position with SWs in badly affected areas. i know first hand from real life work experience. if thats not enough for you then get over it, my post was aimed at helping the OP, not stroking your ego.

blatantrereg

DamagedTrax wrote: »

fine, tell us your credentials. keeping in mind having witnessed a family member or friend or even having gone thru it yourself does not count for anything beyond a single life experience.

im not getting into any fight but you're talking in an old and antiquated way. we have long moved on from that way of thinking as it is PROVEN to have adverse effects on people with anxiety issues. this says to me that you dont work in the area or havent in a vey long time as anyone that does would have been trained to think quite the opposite to you... except for some very right wing, church aligned institutions which really command no respect from anybody.

i have worked in a support position with SWs in badly affected areas. i know first hand from real life work experience. if thats not enough for you then get over it, my post was aimed at helping the OP, not stroking your ego.

For a guy who's all about helping, you seem awfully quick to belittle someone.

You're pretty much disregarding anyone who doesn't have the exact same background as yourself here too - so not much point trying to change your mind I think.

My personal opinion is the same wrt rehab incidentally, but you're talking through your hat if you dont acknowledge the [sometimes severe] adverse psychological effects cannibis can have on some people.


edit: oic. I was confused by the responses to this post, until I saw that I had misread "we have long moved on from that way of thinking as it is PROVEN to have adverse effects on people with anxiety issues," as "We have long moved on from that way of thinking that it is PROVEN to have adverse effects on people with anxiety issues."

Android 666

blatantrereg wrote: »

My personal opinion is the same wrt rehab incidentally, but you're talking through your hat if you dont acknowledge the [sometimes severe] adverse psychological effects cannibis can have on some people.

He said:

it is PROVEN to have adverse effects on people with anxiety issues

How is that not acknowledging the effects it has on some people.

DT started off his first post with the words 'no offence but…', IrishEyes got highly insulted and got on his high horse about it so DT replied, stating exactly how much experience he had in this area. Can't really see the problem there…

Ickle Magoo

Can we stop with the petty bickering - demands of credentials from one unqualified party of another has nothing to do with offering advice to the OP. Nor should anyone be making internet diagnoses regarding the OP's brother...

Please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP and be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

Many thanks.

DamagedTrax

blatantrereg wrote: »

but you're talking through your hat if you dont acknowledge the [sometimes severe] adverse psychological effects cannibis can have on some people.

you should probably try reading and undestanding my post again. ive no more to say in this thread now if OP wants help he's welcome to contact me.

face1990

From what I've read (skipped over a lot of the off-topic posts), he's suffering from depression. I don't think the weed is the problem, though it has probably become a crutch of sorts.
Stop buying it for him. If he really wants some there's nothing stopping him getting it himself.
I also think professional counselling should be tried again, in conjunction with cutting down (or completely stopping) smoking weed.

At the end of the day, if he's suicidal then counselling and/or medication is the only option.

Ickle Magoo

DamagedTrax, asking that posters get into private consul with you is against the forum charter.

Would you please acquaint yourself with the forum rules - as all posters are requested to do prior to posting.

DamagedTrax

i didnt ask anything. just said im here if needed. nothing sisnister or harmful done.

Overheal

after a death I smoked a ridiculous amount of weed, became suicidal... and then realized what was happening and cleaned up. Never looked back.

My brother grew up around drugs far more so than I did. Snorted painkillers, cocaine, never did needles fortunately but mostly stuck to marijuana. Tried moving out on his own to get away from people, but he moved out somewhere completely new and after a few years it didnt work. He just racked up car payments and rent costs, smoked hundreds of dollars per month, had about $5000 in credit card debt and like me, had a moment of self realization, moved in with me, and he hasn't smoked for a year this month. He will have the debts paid off in about 3 months.

Unfortunately though, there isn't a lot you can do to make someone realize it they have to see it for themselves. Until then all you have to do is wait. And don't enable them, either.

Taltos

face1990 please no more diagnoses, doing so is a violation of our charter.

DamagedTrax, please review our charter. Asking an OP to contact you here is a bannable offense as is arguing with a mod. If you have an issue with a mod direction please take it to PM. Further breaches of our charter will now result in a ban.

Thanks
Taltos

DamagedTrax

i never argued with a mod, i also sent him a vey polite pm thanking him for the polite manner in which he dealt with it and then i stepped out of the converstion. you can check with mod in question

Taltos

DamagedTrax Repeated breach of our charter despite warnings is now resulting in a red card and a weeks holiday.

Both I and the other mod have asked you to read and comply with our charter. Your failure to do so is resulting in this actoin. Before posting here again please ensure you have reviewed our charter, I also recommend you review other posts to learn what type of behaviour here will result in a warning or a ban.

Taltos

zef

Hi, there has been a good few mentions of psych wards / psychiatric help in this thread.
Unless you are going private, it is unlikely your brother would be placed in a psych ward for social anxiety & cannabis use. It seems their service is more over-stretched than ever, and have several anecdotal stories to outline this point.

Another poster suggested "If nothing else, a GP could prescribe him a high dosage of Xanas or Valium that would take the edge of the initial few days of having no marijuana. " Benzodiazapines are pretty dangerous addictive drugs in their own right. And they are not prescribed to those prone to addiction.

I would stop buying the weed for him, by doing this you are not helping him move on, altho i know you may think it's helping. If he has to buy his own, maybe a few realities of the situation might hit home and he will realise that something has to change. Weed is quite expensive afaik.

kjl

I used to smoke MJ everyday too and I really though I would find it difficult to quit, but when I did it was a piece of cake. MJ only has psychological addictive qualities not physical so when you do decide to quit your mood is a little low for a few week and the feeling of boredom in insane but it does pass and eventually you get back into the swing of normal life.

The big issue here is that your brother doesn't have a job and if he were to get one I would even say that he wouldn't have to quit smoking. For me it used to be the case that I would reward myself with a little smoke (3 or 4 drags) in the evening when I did a particularly hard day. It became something I looked forward to.

The real issue is motivation, If I were you I would say that you simply are not going to get him any more MJ until he decided to do something other then claim the dole. If he does a course, or gets a job whatever. The social anxiety is not coming from the fact that he is smoking, it's because he is doing noting apart from smoking.

We would all love to sit around and smoke weed all day and by buying it for him you are enabling him to do this.

Mighty_Mouse

He may be clinically depressd but I wonder is he physically active?

May not be helpful but finding a sport you really love is a huge incentive for better living. Passion, drive, attaining goals, physical fitness = mental fitness, even the regular dose of adrenelin has hugh benefits.

Maybe buy him a few of the better running books.
Inspirational stuff.
There's something about the freedom involved in just taking off on a run that has worked wonders for many people.

LegacyUser

I smoked a hell of a lot for 8 years. The first time I gave up I became paranoid, had night terrors and sweats and was permanently on edge. Someone suggested I try acupuncture and it really helped with the withdrawals. I foolishly smoked again a few months later (a "kind" friend gave me an ounce for a present and I couldn't resist) and I couldn't afford the acupuncture that time and I'd say I experienced withdrawal symptoms for 6 months. I'd really encourage you to get him some acupuncture instead of weed. There's a community centre near me that gives donation based acupuncture, maybe there's one in your area? If not, I heard that drug clinics offer free acupuncture sessions.

I wouldn't recommend rehab as there would be a lot of addicts who would consider mj addiction a joke. I tried cocaine anonymous and narcotics anonymous and a few people were encouraging but the majority were a little sneery. Also, people would share about their rock bottom and it's difficult to identify with some of the depths a junkie goes to compared to a stoner. There is a wonderful fellowship called marijuana anonymous. They have online meetings. I was lucky to have family in UK so attended meetings there and it changed my life. They have a helpline number on their website if you'd like to talk to a recovering marijuana addict and see if they have any suggestions.

I hope you're looking after yourself through all of this and not just worrying about him. Hope you find some help.