Do you observe lent?

Irishchick

So tomorrow is Shrove Tuesday. Traditionally a day when the cupboards were cleaning of anything nice such as egg, sugar , flour (hence pancakes!) and eaten in preparation for lent when people would fast deny themselves luxury foods such as those mentioned.

Does anyone still take part in this, besides children giving up sweets or quitting smoking??

PDN

Irishchick wrote: »

So tomorrow is Shrove Tuesday. Traditionally a day when the cupboards were cleaning of anything nice such as egg, sugar , flour (hence pancakes!) and eaten in preparation for lent when people would fast deny themselves luxury foods such as those mentioned.

Does anyone still take part in this, besides children giving up sweets or quitting smoking??

Nope, but I'll still eat some pancakes!

HamletOrHecuba

There are traditional rules.

Marital relations are definitely out. Im going for giving drink and meat at the beginning and hopefully get around to cutting out all animal products.

You should have only one full meal and two snacks.

HamletOrHecuba

"Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work eto which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away."

Acts 13:1–3.

"And when they had preached the gospel to that city yand made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, zexhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, a“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” So when they had bappointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed."

Acts 13:1–3.

Christ Himself fasted in the desert for 40 days. Fasting is very much part of the New Testament Church.

But..."For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things."

Philippians 18 and 19.

PDN

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

"Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work eto which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away."

Acts 13:1–3.

"And when they had preached the gospel to that city yand made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, zexhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, a“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” So when they had bappointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed."

Acts 13:1–3.

Christ Himself fasted in the desert for 40 days. Fasting is very much part of the New Testament Church.

But..."For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things."

Philippians 18 and 19.

Sorry, what has any of that got to do with lent?

HamletOrHecuba

PDN wrote: »

Sorry, what has any of that got to do with lent?

What has fasting to do with Lent?

Strange question.

PDN

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

What has fasting to do with Lent?

Strange question.

No, what does a Scripture about people's god being their belly have to do with Lent?

Fasting, as a Spiritual discipline is certainly to be encouraged - but none of the Scriptures you quoted seem to have anything to do with Lent at all.

Sut mae!

Is lent still pushed in the schools these days? I remember in my primary school it was something that was rammed down our throats every year.

Then there was all the ash wednesday stuff aswell. Do they still do that?

gimmebroadband

Yes I do. Jesus fasted for 40 days, so I can a least give up something in His honour - mainly give up my weekend tipple!

HamletOrHecuba

PDN wrote: »

No, what does a Scripture about people's god being their belly have to do with Lent?

Fasting, as a Spiritual discipline is certainly to be encouraged - but none of the Scriptures you quoted seem to have anything to do with Lent at all.

It says something about the dropping of the old discipline surrounding lent.

Lent has been the period given over to fasting in the Church since Apostolic times. Its better to fast at the times given over to it in order to avoid pride.

PDN

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

It says something about the dropping of the old discipline surrounding lent.

Lent has been the period given over to fasting in the Church since Apostolic times. Its better to fast at the times given over to it in order to avoid pride.

Hmm, pride. Like telling everyone on an internet board that you're fasting?
Now, I do know that there's a relevant Scripture about that!

Matthew 6:16-18

Quite seriously, I think it's a very good thing for Christians to fast and pray. But I think it's a bit foolish to ascribe pride to to those who fast as the Holy Spirit leads them, rather than at times prescribed by a denomination to which they may not even belong.

I hope your fasting over Lent is very spiritually beneficial.

rich.d.berry

No, I don't. However I do fast and pray from time to time, but I tend to avoid "organised religious practices" myself. I do like to do pancake Tuesday though.

I'm not much into the Christmas religious holiday either. Doesn't stop me from enjoying a good Christmas lunch though.

HamletOrHecuba

PDN wrote: »

Hmm, pride. Like telling everyone on an internet board that you're fasting?
Now, I do know that there's a relevant Scripture about that!

Matthew 6:16-18

Quite seriously, I think it's a very good thing for Christians to fast and pray. But I think it's a bit foolish to ascribe pride to to those who fast as the Holy Spirit leads them, rather than at times prescribed by a denomination to which they may not even belong.

I hope your fasting over Lent is very spiritually beneficial.

Like telling everyone on the internet that you are not going to do the traditional fast you mean?

The fact is though that its not just one denomination that prescribes Lent; its the Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox, the Assyrian Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox, the Roman Catholic Church and even Protestant denominations. Lent was maintained by most Protestants after the Reformation; to set yourself up against all the overwhelming majority in time and space like that is something. It would be foolish to ascribe pride to those who fast who are genuinely being led to do so by the Holy Spirit indeed; but there is the lead given by the Holy Spirit and than there are personal whims.

coonecb1

I will be observing Lent. I'm going to deny myself alcohol and chips.

However, I will still be keeping a couple of vices, like crisps and chocolate

dvae

no i don't fast at lent, i also eat meat on good Fridays as there is no biblical requirement to do so anymore.
However i don't see a problem when fasting as part of devotion or the likes.
I think the problem with fasting at lent is that many people don't do it for the right reasons.
i think somehow for some, god is taken out of the equation and fasting then benefits the person who fasts for all the wrong reasons.
eg: give up certain foods for 40 days and lose some weight or give up alcohol for 40 days and save some money. a little bit like an atheist celebrating Christmas. (works without faith)

Ghost Buster

"Would you like a chocolate?"

"No thanks. Its lent"

"Not at all. You can keep it!"







sorry:o

Irishchick

Does just giving something up count though or is fasting required as well??

rich.d.berry

dvae wrote: »

I think the problem with fasting at lent is that many people don't do it for the right reasons.
i think somehow for some, god is taken out of the equation and fasting then benefits the person who fasts for all the wrong reasons.
eg: give up certain foods for 40 days and lose some weight or give up alcohol for 40 days and save some money. a little bit like an atheist celebrating Christmas. (works without faith)

I don't see a problem in that. Gaining physical or financial benefits are not bad reasons at all. And if there is moral support to be gained by doing it when lots of others are doing it too then that makes sense.

I think people who observe lent thinking that in so doing they are pleasing God are the ones who are doing it with the wrong motivation.

I do not blame them, though, it was taught to me, and still continues to be taught in schools and churches as the reason for doing so. Obedience is better than sacrifice and God does not despise a broken and contrite heart are what should be taught.

rich.d.berry

Irishchick wrote: »

Does just giving something up count though or is fasting required as well??

It depends on what you want it to count towards. If it's a reduced calorie count then giving up something is fine.

Fasting for me is when I want to know God's will for me or to find his peace, etc. Basically, if I am struggling spiritually then I fast. The time I would have spent preparing meals and eating I set aside to read my bible and pray. I think that fasting works for me, not because God sees my fervour and becomes more inclined towards me, but because I am more fervent, I listen better and am more inclined to receive His answer.

Irishchick

Irishchick wrote: »

So tomorrow is Shrove Tuesday. Traditionally a day when the cupboards were cleaning of anything nice such as egg, sugar , flour (hence pancakes!) and eaten in preparation for lent when people would fast deny themselves luxury foods such as those mentioned.

Does anyone still take part in this, besides children giving up sweets or quitting smoking??

those children shouldn't be smoking in the first place!

PDN wrote: »

Nope, but I'll still eat some pancakes!

Yeah I mostly came in here to express my approval of pancakes :cool:

Irishchick

rich.d.berry wrote: »

I think people who observe lent thinking that in so doing they are pleasing God are the ones who are doing it with the wrong motivation.

How did you come to that decision???

those children shouldn't be smoking in the first place!

I knew someone was going to say that

rich.d.berry

Irishchick wrote: »

How did you come to that decision???

Mainly by reading the bible, but lots of teaching is done on the subject too. Here is what Eugene Cho says about it and he says it better than I could.

Moist Bread

I was going to subsist on soup and bread for the duration of Lent. Is this enough, I could try water and a meal of bread every couple of days?

Irishchick

Hmmm, I'm not fully convinced by that. That's why I'm asking about fasting not just giving up one thing you enjoy, such as coffee.

Making the decision to fast is not made quickly as it requires dedication. I would think that anyone deciding to fast are doing it for the right reasons by putting that money and time into something that will make others less fortunate happier like giving to charity.

Where as just giving up one thing, like coffee seems like more of a cop out. doing something for the sake of something.

By the way who is this Eugene Cho? It says on the site he's some sort of pastor but Ive never heard of the quest church before.

PDN

Moist Bread wrote: »

I was going to subsist on soup and bread for the duration of Lent. Is this enough, I could try water and a meal of bread every couple of days?

It's important to keep taking water, but the average and reasonably healthy person should be able to survive perfectly well without solid food for 40 days. There can be great spiritual and physical benefits from such a fast.

If you are thinking of serious fasting (as opposed to just cutting out chocolates or beer) then it would be important to consult your doctor if you have any health issues.

gimmebroadband

One could also donate the money you would have spent on cakes/sweets etc, to a charity or the starving overseas! Trocaire or a charity of your own choice.
A bit like in the Gospel, for those who have two coats, give one to the person who has none!

Onesimus

We are on the Julian Calender ( Byzantine Catholic ) so our Lent doesnt begin till next Monday.

We can fast on many things. But if someone wants to really fast on bread and water for 40 days then they need to consult a Doctor and their Spiritual Director.

But fasting on anything from Chocolate, to Gossip magazines and programs, to TV altogether is just as good and same thing to be honest. The Lord would never ask anything of us beyond our capacity.

Onesimus

rich.d.berry

Irishchick wrote: »

Hmmm, I'm not fully convinced by that.

OK I'm not trying to convince you, but my own belief on the subject is based on:

1 Samuel 15:22

But Samuel replied:

“Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the LORD?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams."

and Psalm 51:17

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.


Paul also has much to say in the New Testament about the futility of works in attaining salvation.

Irishchick wrote: »

By the way who is this Eugene Cho? It says on the site he's some sort of pastor but Ive never heard of the quest church before.

I just picked the blog entry after doing a web search because it communicated what I wanted to say better than I could. I knew nothing of Eugene Cho either. A little bit of research revealed the following:

He is Korean by birth but he grew up in the United States. He now lives in Seattle Washington. He comes from a Catholic background, but like many modern day Catholics, he became disenchanted with the hypocrisy and abuses of position that he witnessed. He studied at Princeton Theological Seminary to attain his Masters of Divinity.

He established Quest Church to appeal to others who were disenchanted with the established Catholic church. Quest Church is not sectarian and is part of a larger network of churches called the Evangelical Covenant Church.

HamletOrHecuba

rich.d.berry wrote: »

OK I'm not trying to convince you, but my own belief on the subject is based on:

1 Samuel 15:22

But Samuel replied:

“Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the LORD?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams."

and Psalm 51:17

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.


Paul also has much to say in the New Testament about the futility of works in attaining salvation.

Samuel is talking there about the Liturgical Sacrifices of animals in the Old Testament, a modern analogy to those he is attacking there would be people who give a lot of money to the Church and believe on that basis that they can ignore the Gospel commandments. Nothing to do with the Lent.

Who also said here that salvation can be attained through works?

"'Can you make the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast'" (Lk 5:33-35). So Christ says that His followers will fast.

Soul Winner

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Like telling everyone on the internet that you are not going to do the traditional fast you mean?

The fact is though that its not just one denomination that prescribes Lent; its the Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox, the Assyrian Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox, the Roman Catholic Church and even Protestant denominations. Lent was maintained by most Protestants after the Reformation; to set yourself up against all the overwhelming majority in time and space like that is something. It would be foolish to ascribe pride to those who fast who are genuinely being led to do so by the Holy Spirit indeed; but there is the lead given by the Holy Spirit and than there are personal whims.

When did this petty give up something small for forty days crap come into things? Who thought that up? Heck if you want to be really spiritual and follow Jesus' example, then do it right, do it the way Jesus did it. Don't eat anything at all for forty days. If you can't do that then quit trying to force what you can do down everyone else's throat. There is no scriptural requirement for this crap whatsoever, so why think we are are being spiritual for doing it? In fact Paul in Colossians 2:16 tells us to let no man judge us in meat or in drink. Like PDN, I'm all for fasting and praying, but like Jesus said, don't do it to be seen of men, do it in secret.

"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly." Matthew 6:16-18

lmaopml

Well, the idea is not to just fast soulwinner - the idea is that it's a traditional time of the year in the run up to Easter to re dedicate ourselves to Christ. It's not meant to be a time when everybody goes around proclaiming their fasting (of course not) - the idea is that as a community of believers that we remember that we came from ashes and will return to them, that if we have strayed from the path to recognise that, and repent and to allow Christ to dwell more fully in our hearts. It's a time for 'consideration' if you will and of prayer. I suppose it relates to Christ going into the dessert and fasting and praying before his ministry started. Also Moses in the old testament too prayed and fasted for 40 days. There were 40 years of wandering in the desert etc. Traditionally it's also a wonderful time for alms giving and helping others, ( not to be 'saved' or to work towards it though ) so people also re commit themselves to the community and to the good of others in it and spread the Gospel.

It's not only about giving up the Chocolate..lol...it's about reflection. Hope that makes sense.

Soul Winner

lmaopml wrote: »

Well, the idea is not to just fast soulwinner - the idea is that it's a traditional time of the year in the run up to Easter to re dedicate ourselves to Christ. It's not meant to be a time when everybody goes around proclaiming their fasting (of course not) - the idea is that as a community of believers that we remember that we came from ashes and will return to them, that if we have strayed from the path to recognise that, and repent and to allow Christ to dwell more fully in our hearts. It's a time for 'consideration' if you will and of prayer. I suppose it relates to Christ going into the dessert and fasting and praying before his ministry started. Also Moses in the old testament too prayed and fasted for 40 days. There were 40 years of wandering in the desert etc. Traditionally it's also a wonderful time for alms giving and helping others, ( not to be 'saved' or to work towards it though ) so people also re commit themselves to the community and to the good of others in it and spread the Gospel.

It's not only about giving up the Chocolate..lol...it's about reflection. Hope that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense and I understand that if someone wants to do it then fine, do it, just stop telling everyone about it and stop enquiring to see if anyone else is doing it because you are (and I don't mean you personally lmaopml) and stop getting onto people for not doing it when they tell you that they're not doing it. Do your acts of righteousness (not sure if adhering to the traditions of men is doing righteousness but lets assume that it is for arguments sake) the way Jesus said to do them, in secret, and as Matthew 6 says actually making it look like you're not doing it in the eyes of men but in secret knowing that only God and you know that its being done. Let not your right hand know what your left hand is doing etc... Matthew 6:3

georgieporgy

But.... biblically speaking, there were certain times in the year that believers all celebrated the same thing; Passover, Sabbath, Feast of the Tabernacles etc.

In the christian tradition since the foundation of christianity, it has been customary for the faithful to "accompany" Jesus on his journey towards Jerusalem (where he knew what was awaiting him) , just like his companions did then. Lent is the season given over to that annual period of conversion where the christian once again makes an effort to pick up his cross and follow Our Lord as invited.

ISAW

On a related prayer and fasting issue for the onlyists

Matthew 17:21