Best combination for accuracy and range?

Jimmy bo 186

I have a dboys 416 and am hoping to get a 509mm guarder tb barrel for it and i am wondering if i should get a prometheus, ultimate or guarder clear hop up rubber.

I was also considering getting a 509mm madbull black python barrel from mia if it is a much better barrel.

Please let me know what you think.
Thanks

T4RGET

Jimmy bo 186 wrote: »

I have a dboys 416 and am hoping to get a 509mm guarder tb barrel for it and i am wondering if i should get a prometheus, ultimate or guarder clear hop up rubber.

I was also considering getting a 509mm madbull black python barrel from mia if it is a much better barrel.

Please let me know what you think.
Thanks

I personally use a 363mm madbull python in my M4 and an ultimate hop up if that helps you, I've used Guarder clears and I don't like them, although a lot of people do use them and use them well so I think it al depends on what works for you.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

Longer barrel does not = more accurate in airsoft. In fact it is the opposite to an extent. It is all about the air ratio, amount in the barrel in comparison to the amount in the cylinder. So as said above, go for a 363mm. Then a bucking of your choice, Guarder clears are fairly decent, better if you shave off the nub.

T4RGET

Tobias Juicy Grasshopper wrote: »

Longer barrel does not = more accurate in airsoft. In fact it is the opposite to an extent. It is all about the air ratio, amount in the barrel in comparison to the amount in the cylinder. So as said above, go for a 363mm. Then a bucking of your choice, Guarder clears are fairly decent, better if you shave off the nub.

well up to about 450 or so it's going to make a huge difference as it stabilzes the BB before it leaves the barrel. but even longer I've never herd anything of it not doing any good.

Mr X15

Have had a promy with a guarder clear hop 469mm as far as I remember accuracy was quite good but the barrel did cost a fair bit. Now have a 300mm madbull black python ver2 with a madbull ultimate hop using the supplied hop rubber think its a shark bucking not sure though, but the madbull is more accurate I.M.O. and is a fair bit cheaper aswell

Jimmy bo 186

Mr X15 wrote: »

Have had a promy with a guarder clear hop 469mm as far as I remember accuracy was quite good but the barrel did cost a fair bit. Now have a 300mm madbull black python ver2 with a madbull ultimate hop using the supplied hop rubber think its a shark bucking not sure though, but the madbull is more accurate I.M.O. and is a fair bit cheaper aswell

Ah right, well which hop-up rubber should i go for if i get the guarder 6.03 barrel, the promy or guarder clear hop-up rubber?

Mr X15

Have heard plenty of people praise the guarder clear hop as its very soft and suits our 1 joule limit, so you really can't go wrong with it although I found it a pain to install and ended up chopping a bit off the end to make it shorter so it would fit.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

T4RGET wrote: »

Tobias Juicy Grasshopper wrote: »

Longer barrel does not = more accurate in airsoft. In fact it is the opposite to an extent. It is all about the air ratio, amount in the barrel in comparison to the amount in the cylinder. So as said above, go for a 363mm. Then a bucking of your choice, Guarder clears are fairly decent, better if you shave off the nub.

well up to about 450 or so it's going to make a huge difference as it stabilzes the BB before it leaves the barrel. but even longer I've never herd anything of it not doing any good.

Not a huge difference no but, BB's bounce down the barrel, the further it goes the larger the increments are of it hitting a side of the barrel, thus making it less accurate, to an extenet.

THE MINDER

Tobias Juicy Grasshopper wrote: »

Not a huge difference no but, BB's bounce down the barrel, the further it goes the larger the increments are of it hitting a side of the barrel, thus making it less accurate, to an extenet.

As a matter of fact when 'BACKSPIN' is imparted to the bb by the rubber bucking it causes the bb to run along the topside of the barrel;)

c28omzk7ihsxv0

THE MINDER wrote: »

As a matter of fact when 'BACKSPIN' is imparted to the bb by the rubber bucking it causes the bb to run along the topside of the barrel;)

No, it hits to top of the barrel causing it to bounce to the bottom and so on and so forth.
When an item hits something else it bounces back (If there is nothing to absorb the impact). A hard bb or a metal barrel won't absorb the impact.

Here is a picture (Had it saved but cannot find the study done) saying how a bb bounces down the barrel

And here is a picture showing that with a longer barrel (If used with an incorrect air volume especially) the increments between each bounce increases.


I remember seeing a video too a while back, there were tests carried out with a clear barrel and a high speed camera.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

THE MINDER wrote: »

As a matter of fact when 'BACKSPIN' is imparted to the bb by the rubber bucking it causes the bb to run along the topside of the barrel;)

Have you ever heard of an LRB - Thats how they work.
LRB's are a special barrel used in classic airsoft guns (Asahis etc.) The BB rides the top of the barrel in them because they have a continuous gas flow behind them which is always expanding in the barrel which keeps it up against the top of it. At least that's how I believe they work.
Oh and they don't use hop up rubbers.

THE MINDER

Tobias Juicy Grasshopper wrote: »

Have you ever heard of an LRB - Thats how they work.
LRB's are a special barrel used in classic airsoft guns (Asahis etc.) The BB rides the top of the barrel in them because they have a continuous gas flow behind them which is always expanding in the barrel which keeps it up against the top of it. At least that's how I believe they work.
Oh and they don't use hop up rubbers.

Never heard of them mate(and of course we use hop up rubbers)I would love to see that video you are referrering to-interesting concept:)

c28omzk7ihsxv0

THE MINDER wrote: »

Never heard of them mate(and of course we use hop up rubbers)I would love to see that video you are referrering to-interesting concept:)

Just google them, I haven't used on because there are no classics in Ireland and I wouldn't have the capacity to make one myself, they are cool though, you can get something like 300ft on one joule with one, supposedly.

THE MINDER

Tobias Juicy Grasshopper wrote: »

Just google them, I haven't used on because there are no classics in Ireland and I wouldn't have the capacity to make one myself, they are cool though, you can get something like 300ft on one joule with one, supposedly.

Google who?-300ft on 1 joule?-that would be something! As a matter of interest who did the other 'study'(Illustrations) you refer to? And at what fps/bb weight -I'm only wondering because at no point in the illustrations is the bb trajectory straight(even on exiting the barrell)

THE MINDER

BTW-For the original Poster- 450mm is the accepted length at which your 'grouping'(Accuracy) of bb's begins to both optimise and after whiich it begins to dissapate.Bore 6.03-6.04mm diameter is thought to be the optimum bore for combination of range and accuracy. With regards to the 509mm Guarder TBB you alluded to(6.02mm BTW) you will need to pair it with a guarder hopup unit as the barrell window will not match with most other hop up units. Also MIA dont stock madbull TB's anymore-they have 'ULTIMATE' a rebrand of lonex and will match most hop units.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

THE MINDER wrote: »

Google who?-300ft on 1 joule?-that would be something! As a matter of interest who did the other 'study'(Illustrations) you refer to? And at what fps/bb weight -I'm only wondering because at no point in the illustrations is the bb trajectory straight(even on exiting the barrell)

It is just making it easier to see that a spherical item going down a barrel will bounce. It obviously isn't that dramatic, it's just for illustration.
The first one was just to show how a ball bearing travels down a barrel.
While the other was showing how it bounces (And how the increments increase).


And search "LRB airsoft barrel"

And I was wrong, you can supposedly get 300ft with a gun shooting 350fps/.2g
However there are some hop-up units you can make that give the 300ft with a fairly straight trajectory.
E.G. the R-hop or the G-hop. In the summer, I'll be making a G-hop or two and might have a go with an R-hop in another gun (Maybe my sniper rifle)

Here is a G-hop - around 280ft shots on .79 of a joule (Makes the hassle of an LRB pointless and this is more accurate)

Or you can a buy ready-made R-hops online, they won't be as good as the G-hops you can make (My opinion).
https://sites.google.com/site/hsarmory/


Or for G36's (Won't work for any of my other guns for some reason) you can simply shave off the nub on conventional rubbers. and it'll add a little more range due to more uniform spread, flat hops are best though.

I am amazed at how un-informed we are in comparison to our American counter-parts. I wish we had easier access to compressed air up here, then I'd make a 50rps Polarstar engine powered BB gun which can be bumped to 500 fps when playing in England.


The only problem with all of this is that the shots will land like a butterfly, you most definitely won't feel them.



To OP, I would recommend Ultimate barrels but I wouldn't Guarder

THE MINDER

Heads up on your research-I dont know why the link is in chinese as HS ARMOURY is as you say US based. Even hunter seeker will agree that all his R hops and the like are still in test phase and need to be matched properly to each AEG(He would also agree with the 450mm barrell idea) -I'm a'm aware of all that stuff-(like you refered to shaving the nub of a guarder(EITHER WHICH WAY YOU WILL NEED A fLATTER NUB CUSHION)-not sure hunter seeker would'nt recommend a different bucking for that process!)No intention to disagree with your opinions but for the original OP question there is no point in going there:) Let me know how you get on with your R Hops BTW.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

THE MINDER wrote: »

Heads up on your research-I dont know why the link is in chinese as HS ARMOURY is as you say US based. Even hunter seeker will agree that all his R hops and the like are still in test phase and need to be matched properly to each AEG(He would also agree with the 450mm barrell idea) -I'm a'm aware of all that stuff-(like you refered to shaving the nub of a guarder(EITHER WHICH WAY YOU WILL NEED A fLATTER NUB CUSHION)-not sure hunter seeker would'nt recommend a different bucking for that process!)No intention to disagree with your opinions but for the original OP question there is no point in going there:) Let me know how you get on with your R Hops BTW.

I never said a 450mm barrel was a bad thing, I said a very long barrel is a bad thing however IMO you don't need near 450mm to 'stabilize' a bb.

Also for the shaving part, I mean to file or shave off the little bump on the bucking, not the nub, my bad.

And when I said ill informed it wasn't pointed to yourself, I just meant in general.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

THE MINDER wrote: »

Heads up on your research-I dont know why the link is in chinese as HS ARMOURY is as you say US based. Even hunter seeker will agree that all his R hops and the like are still in test phase and need to be matched properly to each AEG(He would also agree with the 450mm barrell idea) -I'm a'm aware of all that stuff-(like you refered to shaving the nub of a guarder(EITHER WHICH WAY YOU WILL NEED A fLATTER NUB CUSHION)-not sure hunter seeker would'nt recommend a different bucking for that process!)No intention to disagree with your opinions but for the original OP question there is no point in going there:) Let me know how you get on with your R Hops BTW.

Have you seen the r-hops with the extended windows? They look like they'd be quite cool.

Jimmy bo 186

Tobias Juicy Grasshopper wrote: »

Have you seen the r-hops with the extended windows? They look like they'd be quite cool.

so, would i be right in saying that the guarder barrel and rubber will not work properly in a standard 2 piece hop up unit?

THE MINDER

Tobias Juicy Grasshopper wrote: »

Have you seen the r-hops with the extended windows? They look like they'd be quite cool.

Yes all very innovative indeed:)

c28omzk7ihsxv0

THE MINDER wrote: »

Yes all very innovative indeed:)

I'd try it but
a) I have a crappy dremmel
b) I am crap at using dremmels anyway :pac:

hehe.

Mr X15

Seen this a while ago on another thread or forum maybe cant remember, but was thinking of doing something similar but instead of fitting a piece of rubber was thinking of filling the barrel with some aluminium rod or something(close as possibly to internal Diameter of barrel) and then filling the extended hop up cut out with silica gel or something like so I end up with a perfectly formed and fitted hop up bucking

c28omzk7ihsxv0

Mr X15 wrote: »

Seen this a while ago on another thread or forum maybe cant remember, but was thinking of doing something similar but instead of fitting a piece of rubber was thinking of filling the barrel with some aluminium rod or something(close as possibly to internal Diameter of barrel) and then filling the extended hop up cut out with silica gel or something like so I end up with a perfectly formed and fitted hop up bucking

Don't be afraid to try it, see how it turns out.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

Mr X15 wrote: »

Seen this a while ago on another thread or forum maybe cant remember, but was thinking of doing something similar but instead of fitting a piece of rubber was thinking of filling the barrel with some aluminium rod or something(close as possibly to internal Diameter of barrel) and then filling the extended hop up cut out with silica gel or something like so I end up with a perfectly formed and fitted hop up bucking

Don't be afraid to try it, see how it turns out.

CpcRc

Mr X15 wrote: »

Seen this a while ago on another thread or forum maybe cant remember, but was thinking of doing something similar but instead of fitting a piece of rubber was thinking of filling the barrel with some aluminium rod or something(close as possibly to internal Diameter of barrel) and then filling the extended hop up cut out with silica gel or something like so I end up with a perfectly formed and fitted hop up bucking

Someone already tried something similar. All credit goes to SOCOM, I believe that's his name here on boards. If I'm wrong, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VAfKCt0188

Inari

In my experience I have found that each gun likes its own combination. My JG M4 loved Guarder Clears, and Madbull Black Pythons...but my CYMA M4 just didn't get on with them - performance was good, but not as good as with the G&G Green Hop up and JBU Barrel.

My P90 gets on beautifully with a Deepfire tightbore that was a reject from my girlfriend's DBoys CQB.

My G&G LR300 loves Madbull Black Pythons, but not Vanaras - yet Vanaras works beautifully in the DBoys M4.

Best thing is to try out different combinations - keep the hop up rubbers soft, and buckings hard. You want a nicely finished barrel - if under 450mm I recommend going tighter (up to 6.01mm), if going longer I'd recommend 6.03/4mm.

I haven't tried any R or G hop mods...just seems like more effort than worth in my opinion

Jimmy bo 186

Inari wrote: »

In my experience I have found that each gun likes its own combination. My JG M4 loved Guarder Clears, and Madbull Black Pythons...but my CYMA M4 just didn't get on with them - performance was good, but not as good as with the G&G Green Hop up and JBU Barrel.

My P90 gets on beautifully with a Deepfire tightbore that was a reject from my girlfriend's DBoys CQB.

My G&G LR300 loves Madbull Black Pythons, but not Vanaras - yet Vanaras works beautifully in the DBoys M4.

Best thing is to try out different combinations - keep the hop up rubbers soft, and buckings hard. You want a nicely finished barrel - if under 450mm I recommend going tighter (up to 6.01mm), if going longer I'd recommend 6.03/4mm.

I haven't tried any R or G hop mods...just seems like more effort than worth in my opinion

I see, thanks for that.

c28omzk7ihsxv0

Inari wrote: »

In my experience I have found that each gun likes its own combination. My JG M4 loved Guarder Clears, and Madbull Black Pythons...but my CYMA M4 just didn't get on with them - performance was good, but not as good as with the G&G Green Hop up and JBU Barrel.

My P90 gets on beautifully with a Deepfire tightbore that was a reject from my girlfriend's DBoys CQB.

My G&G LR300 loves Madbull Black Pythons, but not Vanaras - yet Vanaras works beautifully in the DBoys M4.

Best thing is to try out different combinations - keep the hop up rubbers soft, and buckings hard. You want a nicely finished barrel - if under 450mm I recommend going tighter (up to 6.01mm), if going longer I'd recommend 6.03/4mm.

I haven't tried any R or G hop mods...just seems like more effort than worth in my opinion

With an r-hop you can get up to 50% extra range.

Also you are right on different things. My G36c loves a madbull blue with a filed nub.