Suicide/ frightening facts

Explosions in the Sky

I saw this statistic a couple of weeks ago and article, speaks for itself. This is scary http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfidcwqlaukf/rss2/
"Almost 10 times as many people took their own lives in Clare last year as died on the county’s roads"

m83

"Almost 10 times as many people took their own lives in Clare last year as died on the county’s roads"

That has got to be amongst the most sensationalist non-statistics I've read in quite some time. Absolute crap. It means nothing.

Reading the article the suicide figure is only at 19 for 2011. That is not high. The decrease in traffic deaths is a good thing and can be attributed to many many factors such as increased vehicle safety, less drink driving, improved roads, etc.

More language from the article calls the rise of suicides to be "shocking and frightening". It only went up by 2 people from 17 in 2009. That's barely statistically significant. And this is from Dr. Bhamjee who wants to put lithium in the water supply.

Slow news day or what?

Taceom

m83 wrote: »

Reading the article the suicide figure is only at 19 for 2011. That is not high.

I don't agree. And I doubt the familes of those 19 would agree that 19 deaths to suicide in one county is not high.

Balagan

It's not the best article. I dislike this playing around when statistics are released in order to make them into news stories. The number of 19 includes people who came from outside Clare to die here but we know that some deaths not classed as suicide were exactly that. And if you add the people who tried it, you're looking at an enormous problem.

If you took a walk around the newer portions of Drumcliffe cemetery in Ennis with someone who knows the townspeople, you would be floored by the amount of graves of those who took their own lives, even since 2000, and including the years which saw the height of the Celtic Tiger run. Anyway, it's probably one of the most emotive topics there is. Those who have lost loved ones to it are fiercely protective, naturally, but there should be room also to voice the legacy of lifelong grief that is the lot of those who left behind forever wondering if it could have been avoided.

pappyodaniel

I never knew he proposed that we add lithium salts to public water in high risk areas! That's nuts....seriously nuts that Dr Bhamjee wanted to 'spike' the drinking water of an entire county.
Jesus knows we all get depressed from time to time but treating me like a mental patient and doping me up without my knowledge is way OTT.

Balagan

He wasn't proposing it just for Clare but proposing it for the country.

It would be a trace element and apparently you'd need to drink the equivalent of several Olympic sized swimming pools of the water in order to consume an amount equal to the average lithium tablet. It's been tried elsewhere http://www.independent.ie/health/health-advice/lithium-the-lifesaver-3010638.html

Can't imagine there ever being agreement to it here. If they asked.

Lady Chatterton

m83 wrote: »

Reading the article the suicide figure is only at 19 for 2011. That is not high.

Taceom wrote: »

I don't agree. And I doubt the familes of those 19 would agree that 19 deaths to suicide in one county is not high.

I agree with Taceom, our suicide figures are under reported for lots of reasons. Sometimes a Coroner may decide to record a suicide as death by misadventure.

Normally, this is done where someone hasn't left a suicide note or where the deceased has left a young family who might be adversely affected by a suicide verdict.

It is worth noting that in some cases insurance companies refuse loss of life claims where a verdict of suicide is recorded, this would mean that the surviving partner would still be responsible for the outstanding mortgage on the family home. Coroners often look sympathetically at these situations.

m83

Taecom is pulling a bit of a straw man to be honest. Please do not put me in a position to be in favour of this suicide rate for which I am obviously not. I'm just calling out this bull**** journalism for what it is.

Lady Chatterton

m83 wrote: »

Taecom is pulling a bit of a straw man to be honest. Please do not put me in a position to be in favour of this suicide rate for which I am obviously not. I'm just calling out this bull**** journalism for what it is.

You are saying that 19 deaths by suicide is not that many. I'm merely pointing out that suicide figures are under reported in this county/country so in reality there are more than 19 deaths.

Taceom

m83 wrote: »

Taecom is pulling a bit of a straw man to be honest. Please do not put me in a position to be in favour of this suicide rate for which I am obviously not. I'm just calling out this bull**** journalism for what it is.

I had to look up the term *straw man* as I've never heard it before and if I come across as " an object, document, person or argument that temporarily stands in for and is intended to be "knocked down" by something more substantial" it certainly wasn't my intention.

I was just saying that 19 suicidal deaths in any county is way too many. And as MrsD007 says 19 is most likely not the true number.
I do agree though that the article isn't great and Dr. Bhamjee's suggestion about adding Lithium to water is a bit mad. But having lost a family member to suicide I feel even the loss of one life to suicide is too much.

Lady Chatterton

I've just found this recent news report which highlights the problem of inconsistant reporting of suicide figures. Coroners really have a tough role.

The Irish Times - Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Coroners reporting suicides

MARIE O'HALLORAN

A CALL has been made for the Minister for Justice to establish standard operational procedures for coroners on the reporting of suicides.

Derek Keating (FG, Dublin Mid-West) asked Alan Shatter to introduce a directive on the issue so that “there would not be different standards of reporting in different counties”.

There was “no consistency among coroners when it comes to reporting deaths by suicide”. He asked if the Minister was aware that the coroner in Co Roscommon would not report such deaths.

Mr Shatter said because of the independence of coroners “it would not be appropriate for me to comment on the approach taken by an individual coroner”. Mr Shatter also said that he was “mindful that coroners bear a heavy duty in reaching the verdict of suicide” but they had to be sure as to the cause of death.

The duty of a coroner “is to accurately record the cause of death and it is crucially important that he or she do so”, the Minister added.

Mr Shatter said the 2007 Coroners’ Bill was being amended while further reforms would be brought forward

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0208/1224311464464.html

maiden

I volunteer for the jury for coroners court and I know for a fact that many deaths are NOT recorded as suicide when they most definitely are suicides.

I have questioned it as being on a jury I want to make the right decision but I have always been outnumbered by the rest of the jury and brought back something like misadventure etc

angry kitten

It's an awful thing for people to live in such despair that suicide seems the only option. And an awful thing for the family left behind to have to cope with. My heart goes out to those affected by suicide.

Carazy

angry kitten wrote: »

It's an awful thing for people to live in such despair that suicide seems the only option. And an awful thing for the family left behind to have to cope with. My heart goes out to those affected by suicide.

They choose it, there is no glorofing that. They are the ones that make it acceptable for others to follow suit. I am under the age of 24 and I have seen 4 friends (close friends) end their life in the last 5 years.
I personally do not see what they see obviously, but they do not want the help (sorry to sound heartless but thats it)

Lady Chatterton

Carazy wrote: »

They choose it, there is no glorofing that. They are the ones that make it acceptable for others to follow suit. I am under the age of 24 and I have seen 4 friends (close friends) end their life in the last 5 years.
I personally do not see what they see obviously, but they do not want the help (sorry to sound heartless but thats it)

I doubt that anyone really chooses suicide, I think that unfortunately, these people are so distraught that they can't see any other way out of their problems. It is almost like they feel that they would be less of a burden to their family and friends if they end their lives, but we all know that that isn't true.

As I see it, we have huge work to do in this country in helping people with mental health difficulties. At present, most of the help that is out there, is being provided by GPs and voluntary groups like Pieta House and the Samaritans. In my opinion, there is little point in the HSE running expensive TV and radio adverts asking people "to mind their mental health" if there isn't a proper service there to help them. Demand for mental health sevices has increased over the last few years so it is important that the government put additional resources in place so that people who need to see a psychologist or psychiatrist aren't waiting months to see one.

Balagan

Carazy wrote: »

They choose it, there is no glorofing that. They are the ones that make it acceptable for others to follow suit. I am under the age of 24 and I have seen 4 friends (close friends) end their life in the last 5 years.
I personally do not see what they see obviously, but they do not want the help (sorry to sound heartless but thats it)

You don't sound heartless. You sound angry and sad and you're certainly entitled to feel that and more. I have a kid somewhat younger than you who has lost classmates and classmates siblings and classmates' parents. It is a constant struggle to keep on putting any context on it. The issue of lads in their late teens and early 20s coming to terms with their homosexuality is definitely present, along with the worries about how their families and friends might change towards them and how their lives will be different because of that. For the older people, drink seems to be a huge factor. People don't seem to realise how much of a depressant it ultimately is.

Although all suicides leave huge grief, the greatest often seems to be when the family and friends hadn't spotted warning signs. There was an interesting article on how possibly sudden the decision can actually be in The Irish Times last week. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2012/0214/1224311739190.html

Lady Chatterton

Pat Flynn (Irish Examiner) has a very sad report in today's newspaper about a Polish man who took his life at the Cliffs of Moher last weekend.

I believe there are wardens on duty at the cliffs but suicides at the cliffs seem to be on the increase of late. I wonder if more could be done to prevent such deaths. It is incredibly distressing

On a separate point, I have huge admiration for people like Mattie Shannon and Doolin Search & Rescue who do tremendous work on a voluntary basis and help to give grieving families some closure.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/polish-man-found-hanged-at-cliffs-minutes-before-visit-184474.html

jordainius

Carazy wrote: »

They choose it, there is no glorofing that. They are the ones that make it acceptable for others to follow suit. I am under the age of 24 and I have seen 4 friends (close friends) end their life in the last 5 years.
I personally do not see what they see obviously, but they do not want the help (sorry to sound heartless but thats it)

From very close personal experience, its not about not wanting the help, sometimes they want the help but sometimes no matter how much a person wants help, no matter how much help they get and no matter how good that help is, it still won't be enough. Everyone is different.

Family member of mine hung herself last August, unfortunately not a surprise as she had being going through problems for the last decade, and it was the latest in a long list of attempts to take her life and sadly she finally succeeded. She didn't do it because it was made acceptable to her due to others doing it before her and her having done it herself last August does not make it "acceptable" for anyone else to do it in the future.

I find it very hard to accept your notion that a person who commits suicide cares about whether or not it is an acceptable thing to do based on others having done it. I'd very confidently say that that's probably the last thing on a suicidal persons mind.

myrns

Carazy wrote: »

They choose it, there is no glorofing that. They are the ones that make it acceptable for others to follow suit. I am under the age of 24 and I have seen 4 friends (close friends) end their life in the last 5 years.
I personally do not see what they see obviously, but they do not want the help (sorry to sound heartless but thats it)

That is heartless. Nobody "chooses" suicide, they are so ill, they cant see any other way out! It's a state of mind, not a life choice. They may get help, they may get treatment but unless they are one of the lucky ones who recover from depression, some people feel that they just cant go on any longer. For years there has been a stigma attached to depression and those who are suicidal, it is time people woke up to the fact that it happens to a lot more people than we know and it needs to be addressed with compassion, help and as much support as can be given. Speaking as someone who lost a family member on the Cliffs of Moher.

Balagan

The Samaritans say it is a myth that you have to be mentally ill to even think about suicide. The organization states that most who follow through on it are mentally ill, often to a serious degree, but some are not, and while the particular person or people we grieve for may well have been suffering a diagnosed condition beforehand and struggled for a long time with it, there are substantial grounds for accepting that this will not be true in all cases.

Helpful page from the Samaritans website dealing with this point and others. http://www.samaritans.org/your_emotional_health/about_suicide/myths_about_suicide.aspx

And this also from the same website on

Why do people take their own lives?
There is no one reason why people take their own lives. It is often as a result of problems building up to the point where the person can see no other way to cope with what they’re experiencing.

Very often people (or the media) look for a ‘cause’ as if there is one factor that has led someone to take their own life. In reality, the way someone feels is a result of many factors. For example, a recent survey of Samaritans callers found that 86% of them were calling about a number of problems or worries rather than one single thing.

The kinds of problems that might increase the risk of suicide include:

Recent loss or the break up of a close relationship
An actual or expected unhappy change in circumstances
Painful and/or disabling physical illness
Heavy use of, or dependency on alcohol/other drugs
History of earlier suicide attempts or self-harming
History of suicide in the family
Depression
When someone is feeling low or distressed it may be that a seemingly minor event is the trigger for them attempting to kill themselves.http://www.samaritans.org/your_emotional_health/about_suicide.aspx