Dog with no papers.

drunkmonkey

Wondering if anyone can advise, looking at getting a dog, long time since my last one went to doggy heaven. I see some advertised on done deal with things like no papers, not registered. What does that mean? Should those kind of dogs be avoided.

For example these little guys, <Link Removed>

Is there any advantage of getting a girl over a boy, only thing putting me off a guy is that he might start humping my leg. But where are better tempered? Any other reason to pick one above the other.

My last labrador used to shed like crazy are they all like that or is there a breed of labrador that's not as bad as the rest.

lorebringer

Labs do shed quite a bit - brushing them daily will help with it and, of course, al dogs shed, but Labs are all pretty heavy shedders.

Done Deal and similar sites should be approached very cautiously. The majority of people who advertise on there are not good breeders and are out for a quick sale making as much money as they can. If you are looking for a pure breed dog, contact the IKC breed secretary and they will give you the name of some breeders. Make sure all health checks are done (eg. Hips scoring, ECG... all depending on breed). A breeder that is not registering is a bit dodgy - it raises quite a few questions and I would walk away from this one.

On gender - if you are neutering your dog, there is no particular difference between males and females, it's all down to personal preference. If you are not going to neuter, there are more things to consider. (there is loads of info about the different issues with males/females online).

kylith

If a dog is advertised without papers it could mean a couple of things; 1) that the female has been bred more times than the IKC allows, and no more of her litters can be registered. This overbreeding is bad. 2) The parents aren't registered. This is most likely a Backyard Breeder breeding for money.

I would urge you to stay away from DoneDeal, Buy and Sell, and sites of that type. Either contact a reputable breeder through the IKC or rehome from a shelter.

Honey-ec

Would you consider adopting? The pound (and pretty much all the rescues) are full to bursting at the moment.

Stay well away from Done Deal, etc. There's a sticky on this page about puppy farm awareness, you should have a read of that before you go any further.

Zapperzy

Irish Kennel Club registered basically just means that the breeding has been documented and you can receive a piece of paper that lists each dog going back a few generations, as well as a document that lists the date of birth, dam's and sire's name and your dog's show name, this means your dog can enter IKC registered shows. Being IKC registered certainly is not a stamp of quality or a guarantee of good health, it simply means the breeder went to the bother of spending a small sum of money (I think it's €13 a pup or €13 a litter?) sending away the forms and microchipping the pups (all IKC reg dogs must be microchipped), and that both parent's were registered (even in some cases such as puppy farms the parents listed on the papers may not even be the parents) and they complied by a few very simple rules.
The IKC website is an absolute joke who awful it is for information but off the top of my head I think they are: Bitch must be between the age of 2 and 8, sire must be between the age of 1 and 8, and there is a max number of litters you can register from a bitch in her lifetime (6 maybe?).

So if your buying a unregistered pup you have to ask yourself and the breeder why isin't it registered. Has the bitch been bred too many times, is she or the sire too old or too young, are they too lazy or stingy to pay out for registration (in which case you have to wonder what other corners they've cut) or are 1 or both parents not registered themselves. In all of these cases you have to walk away. If they try to spin you some line about you don't need it unless you want to show the pup walk away, or some of the many other excuses such as lost the bitch's or sire's papers or I'l send them on in the post or the pup is an extra €100 registered.

Being IKC registered is the bare minimum you should look for when buying a purebred pup. Depending on the breed there are a list of genetic illnesses that each breed is prone to, all breeding dogs should be screened for these health problems otherwise you are potentially passing on all sorts of expensive and heartbreaking health issues to the pups (and onto your pocket). You mention both labs and akitas, both of these should be hip and elbow scored and have good low results, otherwise you run the risk of hip or elbow dysplasia.

Donedeal really is not the sort of place to look at buying a pup. It's full of puppy farmers and ignorant people just breeding the family pet as a once off for a few quid, the first of which doesn't know or care about the health of their breeding stock and the second of which thinks they are doing good until they run into problems whelping or when pups start showing things like hip dysplasia, again no health tests here either.

Have a look at the puppy farming sticky at the top of the page on tips for what to look out for and avoid. And good luck with searching for a new dog, rule with your head and not with your heart!

drunkmonkey

Thanks for all the info, I'll check out the kennel clubs and some one or 2 local breeders I know.

Can anyone recommend what type of dog to go for.

Doesn't shed too much, not to small (jack russell) not to big (alsatian), not afraid of water, needs some exercise but is not overly hyper either. Safe for young kids to play with and will be a good loyal buddy, a little bit stand offish to strangers but not aggressive. I'm thinking of a samoyed husky, everything i've read says it should be a good dog for me.

Jackasaurus rex

Cant beat a good mutt. Generally better health. Cheaper, No need to worry about papers. Plus rescues are full of them

Zapperzy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Thanks for all the info, I'll check out the kennel clubs and some one or 2 local breeders I know.

Can anyone recommend what type of dog to go for.

Doesn't shed too much, not to small (jack russell) not to big (alsatian), not afraid of water, needs some exercise but is not overly hyper either. Safe for young kids to play with and will be a good loyal buddy, a little bit stand offish to strangers but not aggressive. I'm thinking of a samoyed husky, everything i've read says it should be a good dog for me.

Staffordshire bull terrier? They have the nickname nanny dogs because they are so good with children. Not sure about the stand offish to strangers bit though. You've mentioned labradors, would you not go with another one? Although as pups they are very hyper! How much exercise a day would you be able to give a dog?

Would you be willing to consider a rescue? They come in many shapes, sizes, breeds and ages. If not I would recommend contacting the breed club for whatever breed you settle on and asking them have they any members that have litters or are planning a litter.

koneko

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Doesn't shed too much, not to small (jack russell) not to big (alsatian), not afraid of water, needs some exercise but is not overly hyper either. Safe for young kids to play with and will be a good loyal buddy, a little bit stand offish to strangers but not aggressive. I'm thinking of a samoyed husky, everything i've read says it should be a good dog for me.

Can't say I agree it sounds like a good mix! I don't have a Samoyed, but I do have a Siberian Husky (and Mal, and mixes) and they need a lot of exercise. They're active dogs. Without lots of exercise and work they could be hyper, noisy, destructive. Just something to factor in.

They also wouldn't be "stand offish to strangers", they're goofy happy friendly dogs mostly.

Why not go see some dogs at the shelters/pounds? You could fall for one of them, and give a dog that really needs someone, a loving home.

Like this poor guy http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056551003

tk123

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm thinking of a samoyed husky, everything i've read says it should be a good dog for me.

Please don't take this the wrong way OP but you need to do a bit more reading - you don't want a lab cos they shed but are considering a samoyed - it'll look like a snow machine exploded when it blows it's coat lol! :pac:

If you want a lab but don't want hairs everywhere just brush it down after it's had a swim and it won't shed as much - the water loosens the dead hair and a furminator will really help also a good diet can help to reduce shedding too.. The samoyed is a different story though - :eek:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yoz4kNmi2g

Cherry Blossom

There is no such thing as a Samoyed Huskey, they are two entirely separate breeds, and Samoyed's are much more laid back but they do still require at least an hour walk every day.

OP, go into it with an open mind, get out and about and talk to people who own breeds that interest you, find out their worst points as to how they would relate to your circumstances and decide if they are things you could live with eg. a Samoyed will shed more than you think and will need 'some' grooming to keep it's coat in a manageable condition, a shaved Samoyed may not appeal to you so much so you need to keep on top of things so this doesn't have to be done.

Millem

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Wondering if anyone can advise, looking at getting a dog, long time since my last one went to doggy heaven. I see some advertised on done deal with things like no papers, not registered. What does that mean? Should those kind of dogs be avoided.

For example these little guys, <Link Removed>

Is there any advantage of getting a girl over a boy, only thing putting me off a guy is that he might start humping my leg. But where are better tempered? Any other reason to pick one above the other.

My last labrador used to shed like crazy are they all like that or is there a breed of labrador that's not as bad as the rest.

I can never get my head around why people would part with their cash to "breeders" above! I would advise you to go to a reputable breeder that has done all the necessary health tests and pay a lot more than the above advertised price or go to a rescue. Reputable breeders probably have waiting lists so you could have to wait a while. In this day and age every age, shape and size dogs are up for rehoming whether it be from a rescue, pound of private rehoming. Rescues will also match you to a dog, and the dog will be vaccinated, microchipped and neutered you just pay a rehoming fee/donation.
I have three labradors, to be honest they don't shed that much, they have never been to groomers, vet cuts their nails etc but I do brush them with the dyson grooming attachment (I used to furminator them!) and I do Hoover ever second day but it's actually grand. They are amazing with kids and are sooo lazy! Only downside is the snoring I personally wouldn't buy a dog that has been raised outside in a shed as I would like them to be used to the hustle and bustle of a household.

evilmonkee

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Doesn't shed too much, not to small (jack russell) not to big (alsatian), not afraid of water, needs some exercise but is not overly hyper either. Safe for young kids to play with and will be a good loyal buddy, a little bit stand offish to strangers but not aggressive.

To me, all of this would suggest a rescue!

Regardless of breed, parents temperament etc. you cannot guarantee a dog will turn out having these qualities (some of them, all of them or none of them)

For example, I had a retriever who disliked other dogs, he grew up with dogs, his parents loved other dogs, retrievers generally love other dogs, but him, he'd try to attack on site.
My father has a retriever who is afraid of swimming, again very out of character for the breed, and without any obvious reason for this.

I would suggest a rescue. The rescue can attempt to match the qualities you are looking for to a dog which they may have. They can also have a chat with you and maybe help you decide what you feel are the most important qualities for you.

Regardless of whether you get a pup or adult (and regardless of where they come from), socializing with children, attitude to strangers, loyalty etc. are qualities which (IMHO) are 50:50, training : the specific dog. So possibly, you could go to training courses and ensure that quality time bonding with the dog is as effective as it can be to ensure these qualities are nurtured and fostered and that both you and your dog have a long, wonderful friendship!

Inexile

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Can anyone recommend what type of dog to go for.

Doesn't shed too much, not to small (jack russell) not to big (alsatian), not afraid of water, needs some exercise but is not overly hyper either. Safe for young kids to play with and will be a good loyal buddy, a little bit stand offish to strangers but not aggressive. I'm thinking of a samoyed husky, everything i've read says it should be a good dog for me.

I will say at the outset that Im biased but what about a greyhound or whippet. While a hound may be tall they curl up real small Not sure what you what you envisage with the water - hounds will paddle their feet but are too keen on getting immersed, hounds can be a bit reserved and need little exercise or grooming

All dogs need surpervision around young children - not sure how young you mean - but hounds generally are fine with kids.
There are literally hundreds waiting for a good home.
But as I said at the outset Im biased. My second choice would be a good mutt!

lorebringer

Really sounds like the rescue route would be ideal for you - you seem fairly liberal when it comes to breed (ie. not looking for a specific one!), you need a dog that will be good with kids and more wary around strangers (almost all rescues assess their dogs and make sure that if they are being homed with children, they are good with them and their activity level would be knows too) and you are looking in the medium size range. Rescues also make sure their dogs are fit and healthy when they go to their new home, usually vaccinated and neutered and you pay a flat fee (or a bit more if you want!).

Many people worry about adult dogs not bonding well with family members but, out of my own rescue experience, this is a load of crap. There are loads of dogs in rescues that make fantastic family pets, all they need is a home! Even if you were set on buying from a breeder, try to have a look around some rescues, you might be surprised what you find and it can give you a better perspective on what you are looking for.

mickmcl09

I have 2 Samoyeds (if you ever see them advertised at S. Huskies, steer clear - if one doesn't know the proper name of the pups they are selling, they know less about breeding them, health and trying to make a fast buck!).

Kids under 6 will need to be supervised at all times. Sammies are super with kids but they love to play, jump and lick the face off you. Their playfulness would be overpowering hence the need for supervision.
They're excellent with the my kids aged 8,6 & 1.

They will shed up to twice a year.
Brushed/groomed in detail at least twice a week (up to an hour each but normally 35 minutes each).
Brushed, washed, dried and groomed once every 4-6 weeks (2-2.5 hours).

Exercise
Walks 1 per day -5 minutes per month of age.
They need a big garden to chill-ax in. If left in a run for long periods of the day, they fade away, lose their bubbly character and do all kinds of things that will test your patience. Intelligent dogs, get bored easily which leads to absolute distraction.

Our routine.
11pm - 8 am bed time.
8am toilet time and feeding.
2pm & 6 pm feeding time.
In the garden all day. In the house if it's raining.
4-10km walk with 20 minutes off leash time.
10-15 minutes playtime. Frisbee catching or kong/ball fetching.

The evening is spent with us in the sitting room, the beach or wherever we are. They thrive on being part of the family.

Everyday shedding of hair is not an issue, just keep them groomed as detailed above. Keep a dyson at the back door and give them a rub of it in the evening when they're coming in (20 seconds). Not a hair in the house and it keeps the coats spotless.

Hope that helps.

drunkmonkey

Samoyed might be a lot of work for me. I've been looking and reading up on all the different breeds. I had kind of settled on the Bull Mastiff as a suitable dog, good with people, friendly, needs exercise but not loads and who would be a good loyal friend when trained properly and doesn't shed a huge amount, is big a big dog but not massive like an ordinary Mastiff.
Tracked down a registered breeder not to far away from me, dogs have all the necessary papers and had a very traceable bloodline, all looked good and I was meant to go up and visit the pups today and the parents.
I've just discovered that it's on a restricted dogs list and can never be let off the leash in public and needs to be muzzled at all times. Everything i've read and anyone i've talked to says this is not a dangerous dog if properly reared & trained like any other dog. Is the law that restrictive on all Mastiffs (like a french or english one, does it just apply to the bull mastiff?).

I've only been bitten once by a dog and it's not on the restricted list, and the only reason I was bit was the owners fault training him to be a guard dog.

lorebringer

The resricted breeds list only states the Bull Mastiff so all laws surrounding this list apply to these dogs and not other Mastiffs.

drunkmonkey

lorebringer wrote: »

The resricted breeds list only states the Bull Mastiff so all laws surrounding this list apply to these dogs and not other Mastiffs.

It says though "These dogs, or strains and crosses of them" would that not suggest anything with either Mastiff or Bull the law could be applied to.

Temper wise the bull seems to be no different than any other mastiff, is it that much more vicious than any other mastiff?. I've seen nothing to back up that it is. Seem like a strange law, I wouldn't have a problem with the dog having to be supervised and on a leash but the muzzle it a bit too far unless this dog is actually a lot more dangerous than any other strain of it.

The English mastiff seems it can grow nearly twice the size of a bull mastiff, that's what's putting me off, A 100lb dog it very big but a 200lb dog is huge.

kylith

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It says though "These dogs, or strains and crosses of them" would that not suggest anything with either Mastiff or Bull the law could be applied to.

It doesn't apply to other types of mastiff if they are not a bullmastiff cross. An english mastiff is not a type of bullmastiff any more than a greyhound is a type of foxhound, even though they both have 'hound' in the name, if that's what you're worried about.

My friend has an English Mastiff and she is the sweetest dog I've ever come across. She's unbelievably gentle, and is bossed around terribly by my terriers. Beware of dribble with any mastiff. Floods and floods of dribble.

drunkmonkey

kylith wrote: »

My friend has an English Mastiff and she is the sweetest dog I've ever come across. She's unbelievably gentle, and is bossed around terribly by my terriers.

The English Mastiff is way bigger than the Bull though, no?

kylith

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The English Mastiff is way bigger than the Bull though, no?

I don't know. I think she may be quite small, but weighs about 60kg.

Shanao

I have a bullmastiff, she is incredibly gentle and a big slob. She still sheds hair, though not as much as my akita(i dont think any other breed could though!). She is 45kgs so quite big, but nowhere near the size of a 60kgs+ english mastiffs.
The bullmastiff is actually a much younger breed than most of the other mastiffs so in theory is a strain of the other types, and not the other way around. They were bred to work with gamekeepers as guard dogs, therefore they have an instinctive guarding nature, unfortunately people try and enforce this and raise them badly so the dog ends up confused and bites someone, the same as any other breed is capable of when raised improperly. They just ended up being status dogs like staffies, pits and now akitas.
I walk my dogs on lead the whole time and use haltis when I have to, some people think they are muzzles and cross the road, some people walk right up to them without a problem. They are big dogs though so that would probably account for people crossing the road too.
If you are going for a bully, I hope you aren't houseproud. This is a dog that slobbers!! Ensure that the breeder has had hip scores done on the parent dogs as well as bullies are prone to hip dysplasia and find out if the parents have been shown. If they haven't, I wouldn't reccomend getting a puppy from them.